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Location: The Yahara Chain | A true sampling of the Bone Lake adult population has not even been done. They only sampled a few fingerlings. |
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Posts: 147
Location: WI - Land of small muskies and big jawbones | The DNR has been netting adult spawning fish from Bone Lake for how many decades now? You don't consider that a true sampling of adult Bone Lake muskies? Go and ask the Spooner DNR/hatchery for netting data and photos they have from Bone Lake & the muskies being used for egg taking and tell me what it reveals to you. Then check netting data from other lakes throughout NW WI that have been stocked with these fish for decades and see what it shows. It doesn't take a scientist to look at the netting data and realize that most of these these fish do not & will not grow to trophy sizes.
The Mille Lacs netting data shows that the WI strain fish from Kaleps fish farm, not the DNR hatcheries, apparently grow large in mille Lacs. It tells us nothing about how hatchery fish would do there. Would Bone lake muskies grow this large in Mille Lacs? I believe it is very unlikely. Just like how the Shoepacs didn't grow when they were stocked there.
Edited by Lockjaw 12/13/2006 4:57 AM
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| ...Bone Lake...It doesn't take a scientist to look at the netting data and realize that most of these these fish do not & will not grow to trophy sizes.
well, actually, it DOES take a scientist if we want to make sound decisions about these things based on facts and not anecdotal evidence...lucky for us the WI DNR is usually real ones in their research and decision-making!
why exactly do you keep harping on the Bone Lake issue Lockjaw?
is the DNR using Bone Lake fish as a brood source anymore? NO.
- they developed a plan to insure diversity drawn from lakes with full genetic potential.
is the DNR going to move Bone Lake fish to LCO? NO.
- Dr. Sloss' preliminary data shows a statistically significant genetic difference (of unknown quality and impact, just different).
it also shows that current LCO fish are genetically exactly the same as the genetics of the world record class fish taken from LCO decades ago.
what amazingly wonderful good news!
it means world record class genetics are still swimming in WI lakes, and the DNR has changed their practices to make sure their brood source collection includes and preserves those genetics.
imho, you should be cheering and applauding this. why aren't you happy with such an obvious "win" that resulted at least in some degree from your WMRT efforts??? you didn't get Leech Lake strain, but you did contribute to discovering the world record potential that exists in WI and leading to a different stocking plan.
my suggestion is that the WMRT should apply the same energy and organizational skills to the next obvious step for many waters (esp. in NW WI) which is to reduce (over)stocking levels in many of the waters and change size limits to reflect the needs of individual waters. i know you've got at least one local fisheries biologist (Sommerfeldt) who's already advocated that approach in your area. recognize the reality of the situation that you're in and work WITH the decision-makers for the best possible outcome.
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Posts: 32885
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Lockjaw,
The comment about the Bone Lake sampling was in regards to the work going on in Dr. Sloss's lab, not where you have tried to take it.
Lambeau's right.
The fish from Kaleps were from LCO, I believe. So was the original stocking, according to the records, in Bone.
No Bone Lake fish will be stocked in Mille Lacs. None from 1984, 1989, or ANY time frame. Bone Lake fish are FAR from Shoepac in every aspect imaginable. Who knows what the Bone Lake fish might do in Mille Lacs. Enough already.
There's way too many variables and caveats to go through AGAIN here just to provide you with a soap box to pontificate upon, so we'll let our readers look to the 100's of pages from this discussion topic in the past which have drawn some solid conclusions through the participation of folks with the necessary educational and working skills background. I suggest you have some patience until Dr. Sloss's work is complete.
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Location: The Yahara Chain | Kalep's fish came from north central Wisconsin and directly from the hatcheries. According to the WMRP's logic these fish are mutt's.
Lockjaw I was referring to Dr. Sloss's work when I mentioned that no adult sampling (genetic) has been done on the Bone fish. IMO the Sloss report that was released shows that the WMRP assertions are wrong. |
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Posts: 734
Location: Watertown, MN | Just a follow up, Mill Lacs did recieve about 436 adult WI strain in I believe it was 1976, these fish were transported from another MN lake. Also at our MI meeting last nite I person mention that a resort owner is believe to stocked the lake in the 60's, and that there were some native fish already in the lake before the stockings.
I agree Steve WI does not have a Mill Lacs, but I still looks at the success of the metro lake in MN, that are consistantly producing 50" class fish, Indy, Waconia, Hariet, Calhoun, White Bear, Forrest, and Eagle. These are all lakes that range from 800-3000 acres with the same sucker based forage as most WI lakes. In the metro event 3 50" fish came from these lakes. I know one thing that hurts WI is catch and kill, getting 50" on Pelican will be an interesting think to watch and see how the fishery goes.
Waconia has been stock with WI fish, and don't hear of big WI strain fish coming from there? Does anyone know were the stocking came from on Waconia.
I agree it is going to be a wait and see the final results from Dr. Sloss study and direction WDNR go.
Troyz
PS I hadn't checked this forumn in a while didn't know Sloss's prelim were posted.
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Posts: 147
Location: WI - Land of small muskies and big jawbones | Troyz
The WI strain that was stocked into Waconia came from LCO, the fish with the "world record" genes. |
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Posts: 757
| I'm not a scientist or biologist and maybe this suggestion has already been raised but would the Wi DNR ever consider netting large Wi Strain fish from Mill Lacs and using them as a brood source? Kdawg |
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| The WI strain that was stocked into Waconia came from LCO, the fish with the "world record" genes.
are you trying to say that Cal Johnson's fish wasn't from LCO?
or perhaps that it wasn't a world record class fish? notably this is one of the few fish in that category that's actually substantiated and believable.
or are you suggesting that Dr. Sloss' findings that the current LCO fish genes match the Johnson fish genes are incorrect?
the WMRP says that WI fish have inferior genes to the Leech strain.
the genetic research shows LCO fish have the same genes now as in Cal Johnson's days.
has there been a single LL strain fish as big as Cal Johnson's? (67lbs 8oz, 60.5"x33" )
there's apparently (per Dr. Sloss' preliminary findings) no genetic reason we couldn't see these kind of fish again. perhaps focusing on the real issues preventing it would be a better use of WMRP time and enegy? environmental degradation, loss of spawning habitat, catch and kill, overstocking/overpopulation, food source population density, etc., etc...
Edited by lambeau 12/13/2006 12:27 PM
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Posts: 178
| kdawg asked: "I'm not a scientist or biologist and maybe this suggestion has already been raised but would the Wi DNR ever consider netting large Wi Strain fish from Mill Lacs and using them as a brood source?"
Dave N: No, Ken, we would not consider doing that. We have excellent sources of brood fish right here in northern Wisconsin, like the Chippewa Flowage (2006 broodstock source). No need to travel hundreds of miles to Mille Lacs for them. Even if it was desirable to do, the recent U.S. Department of Agriculture ban on interstate transportation of muskellunge and several other species in several Great Lakes states (including Wisconsin and Minnesota) would prevent us from moving those fish across state lines due to new concerns about the spread of Viral Hemorrhagic Septicemia virus (VHSv).
Dave Neuswanger
Fisheries Team Leader, Upper Chippewa Basin
Wisconsin DNR, Hayward |
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