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Location: Minneapolis, MN | I am currious when people find jointed baits to be best for trolling? I am guilty of thinking they suck because I never give them much time in the water. In fact, I've sold most of mine because I haven't caught any fish on them. I want to believe they will work for me but I don't fish dirty water and have heard some people say they are a dirty water bait. If you guys are catching fish trolling jointed baits, please let us know under what conditions you like them?
Thanks.
Edited by Luke_Chinewalker 10/19/2006 3:25 PM
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| Pretty much anytime, seems solid baits are better for digger slightly steeper and bouncing off stuff. But jntd baits don't back off or float up as quick as solid. 10" jntd Beleiever could be the best bait for picking thru ugly bottom I know of, I just can't hang them up. (Wood on the bottom will eat anything, though.) Solid really pounds differently than jntd, but you get body click off jntd for sound. It's hard to say, what brands of lures are you looking at? So many variations of the jointed plug out there, every one's different for different reasons. |
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| When trolling I tend to have one jointed bait running all the time, generally a Believer, Wiley's or Woodie, along with a crank and generally a topwater or spinnerbait |
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Posts: 1530
| we use jointed baits trolling st clair. they have a commotion affect. a good jointed bait will wander side to side not blowing out.joints are the opposite of a straight. they appear to be travelling at warp speedat 3-5 mph, forcing a reaction strike. if you do the math how many feet per second a bait travels at 5 mph.we mostly troll woodies on boards shortlining to keep baits hi in the water column, alternating turns to slow or speed each board to create strikes.. as forage grows and summer moves into full gear we upsize our baits and run them deeper down. a good jointed bait deserves lots of water time.. joints work in clean or dirty water. color patterns dictate whats to be run. naturals in clean and brighter in low light oroff colored waters. |
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| awesome post George. |
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Posts: 155
| I always throw one in the mix too.Especially in the fall when we slow down.They still appear fast. |
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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | Its funny how guys have different luck with different lures. I started out trolling Muskies in 1995 and pulled Jakes and believers until I got sick of never catching anything. I had my first good year after buying 10 jointed 6 inch Lokes . Good wood lures that produce fish not fantasy. I have caught 1 fish out of over 600 muskies on a Jake. I hear guys all the time talking up this lure and I cant buy into any of it. I have worn out 30 Jakes and believers thinking I had the right lures on. After learning what really caught fish I decided to build my own good wood baits and now have boated multiple 50 inchers and many over 45. I have to ask myself why and it just keeps coming back to Jointed wood lures. Lokes , Woodies, Slashers, Mordas Minnows, Wileys and Leos. Cedar baits rock on St. Clair and everywhere else I fish them. Sure they get tore up from the teeth but thats a good thing because it means they get bit. I have near a dozen 10 inch Jakes and (one) has the teeth marks from one 43 incher. I can claim 30 jointed wood lures with 10 or more fish to thier credit and one old Loke with 56 fish by itself. My new slashers have helped my wife and I to our best year ever with 216 muskies and still racking them up. and guess what ? Only a few fish were taken using a plastic lure(squirrely burts). As for why Jointed lures outproduce straights especially plastic ones its because they are built one at a time with quality in mind and as George said the wander patterns and blurring effect at slower speeds triggers fish to pound them. I would ask myself why Jointed wood baits win every tournement on St. Clair. The muskies in that lake are no different from the Muskies in Northern Wisconsin and Minnesota or western Ontario. Ive been there and wood rocks there too. I sold off all my smaller plastic stuff but still refuse to sell my 10 inch jakes and my wife thinks they just take up space. Shes right of course as they never have produced squat. My trolling box is filled with the best of the best and its all wood. All but a couple have produced Ill post an example of why you should own a bunch of jointed wood lures. Kingfisher
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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | The top lure is an old green frog 1996 Loke with 56 catches to its credit including 7 fish over 25 lbs. the lower one is a Slasher prototype with 31 fish to its credit including two 49 inch Muskies one 48 and 6 others over 44 inches. I have around 35 more almost as tore up as these two. Out of the 100 plus plastic straight baits I have owned over the past 11 years I can count on one hand how many fish I have boated with all of them combined. I also grew sick and tired of leaking bodies and inserts pulling out,paint falling off or turning milky. You want to catch a lot of Muskies Get good Wood lures and realize the dream. Lokes,Talonz slashers, Mordas Minnows,Woodies, leos,wileys, old creek chubs(wood), and there are a lot more out there being turned in Basements and shops by guys who are building quality not quick profits. We are at the top of both womens and mens division Muskies inc wife in first me in 2nd . If you are a muskies inc member look up our past year in the lunge log and see the lures we used. two maybe three plastic baits out of 216 fish. the rest bucktails and wood cranks. Mike and Michelle King (Kingfisher) |
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Posts: 1530
| absolutley correct kingfisher. wood has magic. . i have been working wood for 20 years now. it has magical properties. i have many customers who will not retire there chewed baits just like the ones you posted. just goes to show ive never seen a muskie buy a bait. musky ugly is good |
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Posts: 1316
Location: Lebanon,Mo | looks like i should get wood. |
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Posts: 155
| Hey Kingfisher I,ll try a few.LoL..The jointed Believers work good in the mud I drag them through.Where you reaaally need to make some noise... |
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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | Magic is a great way to explain the wander. We call it doing the dance . Muskies just hate a lure that runs away from them when they come up on it. George, Ill be fishing with Bob Devine this weekend saturday. We will be pulling some Woodies Im sure. I dont know where we are going to be but probably off the rock piles near the Detroit river mouth. We have almost met a couple of times . Michelle and I fish the Belle river hump area quite a bit during the summer months. Bob always has good things to say about your baits especially one certain 9 inch lure he gets a lot of fall fish on. We went out for wings with Fisheye last trip. Paul is another real good guy who gets a lot of fish on your Woodies. Keep up the good work George. Kingfisher |
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| Six inch, shallow diving baits work over shoals twenty five feet down? Maybe a tad bit of regional preference lol? St.Clair stuff's pretty specific. No argument on the wood, though. |
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| Woodie Thumper 6-14 inch are incredible baits I always run with at least one Jointed bait and have been keeping a Spinner wet to along side |
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Posts: 34
| My two best jointed big fish baits are the Depth Raider and the Woodie......confidence lures for me......as far as when to run a jointed lure you can follow this simple rule of thumb......early season... cold water...run straight baits........summer....warm water run jointed baits.....fall cold water....run straight baits....of course there are exceptions to every rule and every body of water is different so you will have to experiment but this will give you a starting point.......as a foot note the jointed lures seem to produce more fish located higher in the water column and the straight lures produce more on fish located deeper in the water column.....jointed lures produce more fish for me at faster speeds and straights at slower speeds......hope this helps...good luck! |
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Posts: 1530
| boat rod that makes sense. the big 9 thumper straights are what i prefer on a boat rod in fall. the dive curve will put you down 17 feet with 40 feet of pp 50lb.. summer favorite is 6 ounces and 25 at 3.9 in a jointed bait over 18 feet of water. the clacking drives the lazy girls goofy when it passes there yappers. |
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Posts: 27
Location: Montreal, QC | Very interresting read, particulary the comparision of wooden baits vs commercial plastic ones. Does someone else can add to this? Any toughts about the high-end plastic baits like Legend and Hooker? Keep posting! |
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Posts: 1188
Location: Iowa | Regardless of what else I am using I always try to have a jointed bait running whenever I troll...and depending on the amount of rods I can use in the state I am in too...Iowa: at least one jointed bait with a shallower running bait on the other rod, Minnesota: depends on the situation, Wisconsin: one jointed bait and one big bait that thumps the depths on the other rod, Canada: what is trolling?...
Big Perc
Edited by Big Perc 10/20/2006 7:28 AM
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| Joe
ask 'Josh' about jointed baits |
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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | 25 foot water over shoals?? 1 lb mini ball 50 back and Im on the bottom. No problem I can put shallow cranks any where I want them. I also have cannon Downriggers  . I build 12,15 and 21 inch cedar cranks that go deep as well. I always run a mix of jointeds and straights. Legends have produced for a lot of guys as have Hookers. And like I said Guys have talking up Jakes and Believers for years. You just cant prove it by me. I have fished plastic baits since 1995 and they dont work for me. I used to think I just sucked at trolling until I put on my first Lokes and started smakin Muskies. In my experience there is no comparison between the two types(wood vs. Plastic). I have given both sides ample time in the water. Jointed wood lures have produced over 80% or all of our trolled fish. Even last week we were told to use Nils 10 inch straights and Woodie Thumpers both straight versions. We caught a 51 incher on the Nils . The next day we got a 52 incher on a 6 inch jointed Loke and that afternoon we got another 52 incher and the biggest one for the trip on a 7 inch jointed Slasher . two fish to one on the jointeds. water temps 57/58 depths at 15 to 17 feet 2 oz. weight 30 feet back off the boards. I sold all my depth raiders all my smaller jakes all my believers and legends. I still have a bunch of Bagley monster Shads and Rapala super shads but both are out performed by Tuff Shads and Crane baits. I have a bunch of Hooker G&M Shads as well . We caught one on the small hookers this past January in Lake Webster casting. We get a lot of fish on the Cedar and Mahogany Tuff Shads and the 305 cranes. With Tuff Shad pulling out of the Retail stores Im going to add several smaller sizes to my Deepthreat to fill that demand for a small wood shad diver. 5 inch Tuff Shads are going to be hard to get so if you have any Hang on to them. Chris will still make a few for small orders but has stopped supplying retail stores. 5 inch Tuff Shads in my book are the best small Shad diver ever built . There are a few places where Jointed lures dont seem to work as well as straights. These are lakes like Clearfork in Ohio, Lake Webster, the Barbee chain and other Threadfin Shad lakes(threadfin shad are the main forage) small divers like the Crane 305 and the Tuff Shad more closely resemble the forage. Saric touted the bagley monster shad and the Hooker GM for these shad based impoundments in the southern Mid west. I bought 20 of each after watching the video.we caught one fish on a GM, but Tuff shads have put a bunch of fish in the boat. The question should be why does wood out produce plastic??? . The theory seems to be that high impact plastic holds up longer and resists punctures from teeth. It is supposed to slide through the teeth better for better hook sets. In my experience with plastic lures the reason they hold up longer is they dont get bit as often . The only marks on my Jakes are the circular hook wear marks on the sides from the many hours of pulling them with out a strike. Spence Petros says they work,Doug Johnson says they work so I keep them and keep trying but my resolve is wearing thin. I run a NILS 10 inch and wham!!! fish on. Woodie Thumper Wham!!! fish on. Slashers Wham!!! fish on Lokes ,Tuff Shads,Wileys, Mordas and Leo baits and many other great custom wood baits. To the guy who started this thread Im sorry for rambling. When you size up a lake try to match the forage base. If its Shad go to the Tuff Shads and other shad style lures. If suckers and perch are the main food you need the longers baits like the Slashers,Woodies,Lokes ,Wileys and such both jointeds and straights. When fishing the big waters of Georgian Bay ,the Larry or other big deep lakes with rock shoals and deep suspended fish the old Parrywinkle or my Deepthreat , Legend Plows,Hooker baits and many other custom deep divers like the Grunt lures and Musky Fools big diver. Marge and Franky baits and dont forget the Wishmasters. Most of the lakes I fish are 200 to 1000 acres and jointed 6 to 9 inch lures get it done for me running on short lines in the prop wash. My best day trolling was this year with a 9 fish day all on jointed wood . Good luck and tight lines. Kingfisher |
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Posts: 1530
| man i would have sore typing fingers after that post. but as it stands. wood has magic. after 40 years chasin toothy critters why do we all return to wood MAGIC. |
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Posts: 97
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Where are woodieb8's sold? |
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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | Kingfisher, you really do put up some impressive numbers man. You and the wife really have them dialed over there! One thing. Fish in Lake St. Claire and Great Lakes fish in general are different animals than the greenies inland WI and LOTW fish etc. I agree, big jakes tend not to work so well for the Great Lakes fish(they have not for us anyhow). But, they really work awesome for the barred fish, where structure contact is key. Never did so hot in open water with them. One 10" jake(which I call my truck trader, as I'd trade my pickup for it, if someone found after I lost it) has not left one rod since August, and it gets bit as much as any other lure in the arsenal. That said, when trolling for the spotties, I too like the stuff made by some of the felas over on LSC. My personal favs are Musky Magnets and Lokes. I got talked into a half dozen woodies 3 years ago, and I have been less than impressed. None of them tracked when I got them, and 3 of the 6 were cracked around the screw eyes. i'll keep trying them, as I've heard so much good about them, and after lots of tuning, have them running true, but I hope the ones that are cracked around the leader attachment, hold up. I am losing confidence though as I run them almost every time out, and get bit on something else. I am running a bit slower though(2.5-3.5) and wonder if they might shine at a bit faster speeds?? One thing I do like is that all 6 have different actions. Some of the jointed ones really wobble, and some are very subtle. none wander though, as my Magnets do. Is there a way to get my Woodies to wander a bit better, and not track so true? ould taking the leader attach screw eye out a couple turns and bending it up help a bit??
Edited by Reef Hawg 10/20/2006 3:15 PM
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Posts: 34
| As a former owner of a wooden lure company I would have to say I am kind of partial to wooden baits as well. Plastic does not have the same bouyancy factors as wood has. But in defence of plastic lures I can say this, we have boated several nice fish on plastic lures and they have there time and place as well. We fish all over the mid-west and use both plastic and wooden baits.We have spent alot of time on LSC protyping our own lures as well. Here are some of our stats on big fish (45" plus) caught with our favorite lures. You be the judge! Bucher Depth Raider - 50 1/2", 47"....Legend Perch Bait....53", 45".....Bomber Long A 49", 47", 46 3/4", 46"...... Big Game Tackle 52 1/4", 48 1/2", 48 1/2", 48", 47 3/4", 47", 45".....Maison Bait 56 1/2", 50", 47 1/2".......Woodie 49 3/4" 47 1/2" tiger, 47", 47".......did we catch more on the wooden baits because we fish them more? Probibly.............
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