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Posts: 39
| I have a spot next to a rock wall where I am marking fish at 30ft (and I am fairly certain they are pike or musky.) I am going to try jigging a bondy bait or jig for them but before I do can you guys weigh in on the question of how deep you can hook a musky without putting it in danger? Thanks for your help...
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Location: Ontario | My understanding is 35' |
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Posts: 39
| Got it, thanks again... |
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Posts: 253
Location: On the water | Believer,
I caught a 45" musky in 50' of water using a Fuzzy Duzzit in November.
Brought him up real slow and he released just fine.
Good Luck, Tom |
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| Depends on the surface temperature. If surface temps are in the 80s it will be tough on the fish whether you bring them up slow or not. |
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| I know of a fish this year that died coming out of 25' of water. I was there trying to help revive it, but it's belly was bloated and we tried for over an hour and she would not, could not go down. She was alive, but just wouldn't go down though she tried. She'd get down about 6-10', turn belly up and float to the top. I don't think there's any specific depth, but rather several factors that determine how a fish comes up and goes back down. |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | those #*^@ed suspended fish fishermen!!! |
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Location: Ontario | FEVER - 8/12/2011 11:10 AM
Believer,
I caught a 45" musky in 50' of water using a Fuzzy Duzzit in November.
Brought him up real slow and he released just fine.
Good Luck, Tom
It may have swim away but did it survive ? We will never know ...
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Posts: 156
| Anonymous - 8/12/2011 1:40 PM
I know of a fish this year that died coming out of 25' of water. I was there trying to help revive it, but it's belly was bloated and we tried for over an hour and she would not, could not go down. She was alive, but just wouldn't go down though she tried. She'd get down about 6-10', turn belly up and float to the top. I don't think there's any specific depth, but rather several factors that determine how a fish comes up and goes back down.
Your story reminded me of an article that I think was in Esox Angler a few years ago. I believe it suggested tying a light wire hook to the boat anchor, lip hooking the fish, and lowering it back down to the depth it came from. I think the idea was you could easily pop the hook out at depth once the fish revived, or would do so itself with a light hook. I seem to remember a lot of negative reaction to that suggestion. I think in your situation I may have been tempted to try that as a last resort if I thought the fish was going to die anyway..... |
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Posts: 132
| To me that anchor thing just kind of seems like an "out of sight out of mind" quick fix... maybe I'm wrong, but how would anyone know if ANY fish ever released that way survived or just fell off the hook and just turned over and layed on the bottom and died? it seems like its just a way to get a dead fish off the surface so you dont have to look at it, maybe im wrong i dk. |
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Posts: 484
Location: St. Louis, MO., Marco Is., FL, Nestor Falls, ON | Some years ago, I hooked a muskie on the bottom in 120 feet of water while jigging for lake trout. Needless to say, the air bladder was really distended and you can't burp a muskie. The fish was strong, but couldn't stay down when released. It kept floating back up. I finally decided to phizz the fish and it went right down and stayed down. Did it survive? Who knows. But it was not going to survive with it's air bladder engourged. I don't like to phizz fish, but I really didn't see any option other than letting the fish die. |
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| Anonymous - 8/12/2011 1:40 PM
I know of a fish this year that died coming out of 25' of water. I was there trying to help revive it, but it's belly was bloated and we tried for over an hour and she would not, could not go down. She was alive, but just wouldn't go down though she tried. She'd get down about 6-10', turn belly up and float to the top. I don't think there's any specific depth, but rather several factors that determine how a fish comes up and goes back down.
Exactly my experience too, they will be alive for a bit , but they are bird food. Trolling deep is pointless cause your gonna kill the fish. |
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Posts: 299
| Alright, no negativity from anyone.... I lost a 48" just recently. I hooked her in 20-25ft of water and within seconds she shot right up the surface. Literally in a blink of an eye and got air immediately and jumped somewhere around 3-5 times. I got her to the net quickly, dehooked her and as she was sitting in the net I thought I had for sure a 50"er. I couldn't get over her girth but as I'm looking at her I realize it's not girth, she's bloated bigtime! I immediately made some phone calls to fishing partners on the lake and they rushed over to assist in trying to get her to go down. I put her I'm my livewell and sat there for at least a 45min waiting to see if she could regulate her swim bladder alone. I gave her some gentle pressure and seen some air bubbles coming out but still she was so bloated I knew I'm going to be spending a lot of time with her hanging over gunnel. I put her in and spent upwards of two hours trying to get her to go down. She would gain strength and become fiesty while we were holding her upright. We'd give her a good push down and I watched her countless times kick her tail as hard as she could but only make it maybe 10ft down before bellying up and surfacing. Three of us were working hard to give her every chance but it just wasn't happening. I "Jimmy rigged" the livewell to keep her upright and made the 9 mile trip back to the ramp. I idled the entire time so I wouldn't knock her all around in the livewell. I would periodically stop and she how she's doing and then try to send her off. It was a tough decision to make but she wasn't gonna make it and I made the decision to harvest her and give her to a family that could use the meat. I felt it was the best way to say thanks for the ride rather than leave her to the birds. The family was thankful and needed the meat. I know in saltwater guys "fizz" fish and it's another absolute last option before death but you would need the right tool and assume infection will set in and possible death anyway. I don't know much about it and after 2+ hours of working on her I knew she wasn't gonna make it. Guys that were with me can vouch for how hard I tried to get her to regulate that bladder and go back down. I caught her within the first couple hours of my day and had to quit fishing and head home due to harvesting my limit for the day.
To answer your question.... I really don't know about specific depth but it seems more likely on how fast the fish comes from deep water to the surface. This fish was lightening fast and maybe didn't have time to regulate her bladder??? It sucks and I know your gonna lose fish no matter how well prepared you are on the water but it's part of he game and I know I'll lose fish again but that really ruined my day considering how much I love these fish!
I don't know what I could have done to help regulate her swim bladder.... I tried burping her, giving her hours to do it on her own, keeping her head down in cool water, giving her hard pushes down deep etc.. |
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Posts: 458
| rpieske - 8/12/2011 9:10 PM
Some years ago, I hooked a muskie on the bottom in 120 feet of water while jigging for lake trout. Needless to say, the air bladder was really distended and you can't burp a muskie. The fish was strong, but couldn't stay down when released. It kept floating back up. I finally decided to phizz the fish and it went right down and stayed down. Did it survive? Who knows. But it was not going to survive with it's air bladder engourged. I don't like to phizz fish, but I really didn't see any option other than letting the fish die.
How did you phizz the fish? I have seen it done on large groupers and would like to know the process and tools used for muskies. |
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Posts: 484
Location: St. Louis, MO., Marco Is., FL, Nestor Falls, ON | I know they make specific tools for this, but I just used an awl I had in my tool box. You just puncture the airbladder and burp the air out through the hole. Let me emphasis....SMALL HOLE. You could crimp down a barb and use a straightened hook. It doesn't take much. |
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Posts: 39
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I found the article below helpful and although it is focused on bass I am thinking that it would relate to musky as well. Here is the link which also contains a product that you can use to fizz a fish: http://www.teammarineusa.us/html/bassprofizz.html
In my view, if you are targeting deep muskies then you should know how to complete the steps below in order to revive a fish that is having trouble making the transition from deep to shallow water. Hope this helps and good luck with your deep water fishing! Thanks for all of your input.
Brian
"If your tournament season runs deep into winter, you may need to take some extra precautions to ensure your catch lives to see the weigh-in.
Gene Gilliland, supervisor for Oklahoma’s Department of Wildlife Conservation, says the most important thing to remember in a cold weather tournament is to fizz fish if needed. “Since most cold weather bass are caught deep, there’s a better chance you’ll need to fizz them,” he says.
Fizzing involves taking a needle to a bass’ swim bladder to relieve pressure that results from rapid changes in depth that expand the air inside the fish’s bladder. Because the colder water in the livewell has more oxygen in it, your No. 1 priority is looking to see if a fish needs fizzing. You can tell if fizzing is required because the fish will have trouble staying upright in the livewell; it will be on its side and trying to swim down because it can’t find its equilibrium.
To fizz from the side of the fish, sweep a pectoral fin flush to the fish, then count two or three scales back and remove one scale. Insert the needle where the scale was removed while submerging the fish, and look for bubbles."
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Bad idea with a Muskie. |
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| Steve,
I am curious as to why you are saying its a bad idea. I am not representing myself as an authority or saying that I know better, I am just trying to gather more info and I appreciate your input. Is it your contention that we should leave the deep ones alone?
Brian |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | No, I'm saying 'fizzing' is not a good option for muskies.
here you go...
http://projectnoblebeast.blogspot.com/2009/10/necropsy-notes-swim-b... |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | THANKS STEVE for posting the link
please DO NOT attempt to fizz a muskie. Posted by Sean Landsman ( should be in letters 3 feet high)
although he is no longer at Carlton I wish Sean had continued his blog always an interesting read
Edited by horsehunter 2/14/2012 7:46 AM
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Posts: 2024
| Steve,
Thanks for posting that.
Frank,
Thanks for the compliments on the blog. The blog was meant to increase transparency of the research process and help the public feel more engaged in the research. Even if they were just reading it on a computer screen, at least they could keep tabs on the progress of the project. At present, I am working on ironing out kinks in the analysis for the final component of the project, but won't be posting about it until then (though I could certainly post about other aspects of the project, which I may do tonight). I accepted a job in June 2011 and my time has been reallocated accordingly. There will be future posts, but like many things in life this one has just about run its course. |
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| Did any of you happen to catch Scott Kieper's seminar at the Milwaukee Musky Expo last Saturday?
He boldly stated catching musky deeper than 25' during hot summertime temps is not only dangerous to the fish (nearly all releases are fatal), but unethical as musky fishermen.
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I believe that had more to do with water temps than depth. |
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Posts: 39
| Steve,
Thanks for bringing that blog entry to my attention. I now better understand the biology of musky swim bladders and I (now) agree with you that its a bad idea to fizz muskies.
Sean,
I enjoyed reading the entry cited above, and, I found the other entries about your research fascinating as well. Great job!
Brian |
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Posts: 360
Location: Algonac, MI | The whole debate about delayed mortality, and bringing a fish up from the deep, then releasing it will certianly kill it, is all subjective.
Does a muskie die, after it swims balls out from 40 feet down, straight to the surface after bait, then swims back down to the depths? What if she breeches water too, and it's hot out? Likely not.
Granted, known that winching one up from 60 FOW to the surface, using a 9/0 Senator with electic assist, might kill her from pressure changes (the bends), and fighting for it's life so to speak. Never seen it with musky myself, but have seen Perch lose their guts out their vent from being hauled up.
Warm surface temps & a fish spending too much time in a lack of oxygenated water, caused by the warm temps, is the main culprit. IMO. If not, any musky that ever chased bait up from the depths, would die from it.
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Posts: 458
| Does anyone have a video showing them "burping" a musky? I would love to see how it is done.
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Posts: 981
| "please DO NOT attempt to fizz a muskie. Posted by Sean Landsman ( should be in letters 3 feet high)"
I dont know how many vids youre going to find |
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Posts: 458
| I understand fizzing is bad. I am looking for a video of a musky being burped and any tips from someone who has successfully done this. |
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Posts: 2024
| I'm not sure you're going to find any videos showing the burping technique on muskies. You might find them on other species (e.g., lake trout). Best advice is to Google it. The procedure seems relatively simple and we used it a handful of times on bull trout in British Columbia. You essentially just apply gentle pressure by pushing up on the bottom of the fish while sliding your hand from its vent toward the gill arch. Repeat as needed and (hopefully) eventually you will see bubbles exit the fish's mouth.
Believer,
Glad you enjoyed the read! |
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Location: Ontario | esox50 - 2/15/2012 12:45 PM
...
Believer,
Glad you enjoyed the read!
Many people did Sean 
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