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Posts: 1516
| This is a spin-off the New Office thread of Mike H. I didn't mean to change his thread into a tire thread so I started this one. What I have been told is the major reason for tire failure is over loading your the trailer & tires with improper infaltion. I have also been told if the trailer sits outdoors in the sun the sunlight will deteriorate the tires and cause failure. Sorenson says to have the wheels balanced. I asked a "tire professional " about that and he said balancing trailer tire doesn't make a difference. For the 8 to 10 bucks it costs it couldn't hurt. Anyway having had tire failure I keep a close eye on the inflation always put in the max PSI and try not to put to much weight in the boat. Any other suggestions? |
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Posts: 1764
Location: Ogden, Ut | I was told (with regard to balancing) it applies to all tires, but particularly bias ply - which a good number of trailer tires still are. The unbalanced tires create a vibration that helps cause some of the tread separation experienced by many. It's just what I have heard from some tire shop guys - maybe they're just trying to sell the balancing, I don't know. But I agree w/ Pepper, for the extra few bucks, what can it hurt? At the very least, you may get more even tread wear. Gotta also agree w/ the proper inflation and watching your load range.
S. |
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Posts: 8858
| If you're inflating them to the maximum pressure, make sure you are checking them cold, and not after driving on them.
My recommendation would be a few pounds under max just like on your car/truck.
A tires worst enemy is heat. The individual components of a tire (tread, belts, sidewall) all have a critical temperature at which they basically disintigrate. This happens rather abruptly in the form of tread seperation, sidewall "blow-out", etc.
Sometimes there are flaws in the construction of the tire that cause this to happen, but more often than not it's underinflation that does it. The sidewall flexes too much, which causes inside of the tire to heat up, and when it reaches that critical temperature the whole thing just flys apart.
This will all happen in a matter of seconds on the highway if you've hit a nail or something.
Overinflation is less likely to cause a problem until you hit something -- a pot hole, a rock, etc. Overinflation will cause unnecessary stress on your vehicle however, and your tires will wear out a lot faster.
Check the tread wear. Overinflated tires wear in the center and not on the edges, underinflated tires wear on the edges and not in the center.
And this is something that I will tell everyone who asks:
Don't waste your money buying cheap tires. This goes for your truck, your car, your boat trailer...
You're not saving any money in the long run.
Cheap tires wear out and need to be replaced long before good tires. Really cheap tires fail. If not for your own safety, consider your truck, your boat, and the other motorists around you who are going to have to try to avoid hitting both when you lose a tire at 65 MPH.
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| Overinflation is less likely to cause a problem until you hit something -- a pot hole, a rock, etc. Overinflation will cause unnecessary stress on your vehicle however, and your tires will wear out a lot faster.
well...there are lots of things to hit on the road, even just bumping along the "smooth" interstate will do it.
overinflation will blow your tires out pretty quickly.
fill them to the proper cold psi measured with a decent tire gauge.
don't fill them up until they "look full", that's probably way too much pressure.
it only took me three tires to learn this lesson.
don't be like me.
the easy wrong thing to do is blame it on "bad tires".
the hard right thing to do is ask "what did i do wrong?" |
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Posts: 2754
Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | As someone who used too in my youth work in a tire shop & race stock cars (circa 1966-1970). Both balancing and tire pressure are very important. Ply separations are likely from road damage, i.e., hitting pot holes, railroad rails & the like, or just cheap tires. I have heard of one manufacturer's tires that a friend has on his 4-wheel boat trailer- where 3 out of four tires have failed because of ply separations in the last year. Tuffy uses the same tire. So I really don't understand the failures, i.e., unless he's hitting some really bad pot holes.. He asked what to do- my advice go to Goodyear's.
On ESOX Maniac-> 1988 17'6" Skeeter SF 150 with a 150HP Johnson, with a 2-wheel Skeeter trailer, I'm running Goodyear ST205/R75-14 's running at 50psi. So far 3 round trips to Kenora and a few trips to northern WI, plus numerous short trips with no problems. Tires still look like new. Needless to say it's a extreme load on a two wheel trailer. I'm a "Goodyear" fan for trailer tires.
Low tire pressure = heat = tire failure. High tire pressure = uneven tire wear, poor traction. Unbalnced tires = cupping & all kinds of problems. Plus you're going to get excessive vibration in the boat. Not good for the boat either. For performance radial's on my car's, Bridgestone RE92's or better. I know ToddM let's not get into racing tires 
Al
Edited by ESOX Maniac 4/6/2006 6:33 PM
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Posts: 8858
| Or me...
ME: What's your cheapest tire?
JIM: (buddy whos been in the tire business for 20 years) you don't wany my cheapest tire
ME: Yes I do, man. Look at my car, how long do you think its going to last?
JIM: I'm not selling you my cheapest tire. I wouldn't sell my ex wife that tire.
ME: Ok, how about a better cheap tire?
JIM: Dude... you don't want cheap tires.
ME: Why not?
JIM: Because I'm the guy who everyone goes to for tires, and come back when their tires are pieces of s***. I'm telling you, do NOT buy cheap tires
ME: My car ain't worth $2000, man. Why should I spend $400 on tires?
JIM: Because if you spend $200 on tires you'll be back here replacing them before your $400 tires would have been halfway worn out. And then you're going to replace THAT set, and you STILL would have had the $400 tires. Then he took me outside and showed me a dumpster full of tures from his shop that weekend. He said "Look at these tires, you see any Good Year Eagles in here? You see any Michelin's?"
then he started showing me the tires that came apart, blew out, caused accidents, etc...
Every single one of them, didn't matter what brand, they were all cheap tires.
Then he said this:
"I replace good tires when the tread wears down to nothing. I replace cheap tires (what's LEFT of them I should say) when they explode or the tread flys off...
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Posts: 32953
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Tuffy doesn't 'use' any brand of tire, Vanguard/Trailmaster does. They build trailers for several OEM brands of boats, including Tuffy. I was at an FLW today and looked over the parking lot with 150 Pro Boats out there, and I would say it was about 50/50 Good Year and Carlisle. I DID say Carlisle had a bad run out there that took awhile to get out of the consumer stream, and they covered them well from my experience, at least Trailmaster certainly did. Obviously, with the number of Lunds, Crestliners, Sylvans, Alumacrafts and other brands out there running on the tire, they can't have a continuous problem or they would be gone. Certainly, Tuffy or any other builder would not tolerate a tire under a trailer they buy from Vanguard or any other OEM that has constant problems. We haven't experienced much of any problem with the tire other than that bad run they had. I have over 40000 miles on my Tandem trailmaster with no undue wear or problems at all.
I have had Carlisle tire on my trailers for the last 5 years, and put on more miles in a year than most do in 5. The last time I had a real problem, it was with a set of new Good Year marathon 6 ply trailer tires, blew 'em both on the way to New York. That doesn't make Good Year a cheap or a bad tire, I just had trouble with those two. I still run Good Year on my trucks, unless i can get a deal on Cooper, which I feel is a better tire.
e |
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Posts: 2754
Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | OK Steve-My appology to Tuffy! I realize now I should not have said anything about Tuffy using the same tire. I deliberately left out the tire manufacturer. But I did say, I couldn't understand why they were failing. He is pretty anal about caring for his truck & boat. The boat is cleaned & polished after every trip. They were Carlisle's, I really don't care, they were not on my trailer, but my friend's boat trailer.
Really funny- I'm running Cooper Discoverer ATR's on my Chevy truck. But seriously why would 3 out of 4 Carlisles fail in less than one year with identified/verified failure mode as ply separation? Perhap's my buddy just got lucky and had the "bad run". His primary bitch is it's cost him three replacement tires in less than 1 year w/ no guarantee the replacements won't fail via the same failure mode. He's afraid to mix tire brands and has been replacing them with Carslisles. So far nobody from Carlisle has stepped up to the plate. Maybe instead of saying cheap tires, I should have said bad tires.
Al |
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Posts: 364
Location: Kentucky | Pepper,
Some good suggestions here. You can check this board for other tire discussions, but put me in the anti-Carlisle camp. I've always carefully watched the inflation and trailer load but had a blow-out with Carlisles that were in good shape. Also discovered a giant goose egg sized lump on the other tire when I went to get Goodyear Marathons. I have to drive a minimum 2 hours each way for any of the 3 lakes I fish regularly plus a couple 5 and 18 hour trips per year. Been very happy with the Goodyears. |
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Posts: 1438
| I had two of 3 Carlisle's "goose egg" on me last year as well. One in October and one on the way to winter storage. The Carlisle's I've had also seem to wear rather quickly, just an observation.
Before I replaced the tires, I talked to my buddy, who owns a service shop, and asked him about tires. He told me to go with the Goodyears and to make sure to have them balanced. At the place I had them installed the tire manager told me repeatedly that they didn't need to be balanced. He kept telling me that trailers bounce too much so balancing was a waste of money. So anyways, after they balanced them....
I haven't towed the Goodyears yet, the boat's still in storage. Hopefully it'll be coming home next week.
Scott |
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| Two times I was in a vehicle that had Carlisle's blow out had one thing in common. It was at high speed. I don't recall the exact number but I think they are only rated for 65mph. They both came apart above that speed and the damage to the vehcile as a result was not insignificant. The wheel was destroyed as a result both times as well. IMHO losing a tire is not the end of the world but when you lose a wheel and your trailer gets damaged, its time to put on a set of more reliable tires.
Steve we all recognize your site is not free and your sponsors shouldn't be missrepresented here. If you don't believe us, then please take a look at the posts on walleye central and the bass fishing home page on this subject. You will see that this problem is not resolved and is perhaps more widespread then you are aware. |
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| Carlisle is not a MuskieFIRST sponsor.
we are, however, interested in keeping the discussion fair and balanced, and making sure that there isn't general "bashing" going on. this allows everyone to make informed decisions about what they want to buy. keeping it to specific examples and stating opinion is fine, since that is different than broad-brush statements such as "such-and-such sucks".
in your example the tires failed while driving above the rated speed.
that is operator error, not cheap tires.
it's a good thing to look into when choosing tires - match the load and speed rating to your expected use. |
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Posts: 1335
Location: Chicago, Beverly | Got a lot of things to cover here..
1st, never seen a trailer tire rated for over 65mph... many are rated less...how fast was everyone who had blowouts really going????
2nd, what are the tire build codes on the allegedly bad run of carlisle?? It is one thing to say there was a bad run, another completely different thing to withhold safety information such as what was the build code on the unsafe batch so I can get nthem off my trailer..
3rd, what is the likely hood that so many with carlisle tire problems have the same exact build code or had them under/over/inflated or were driving too fast etc.... everyone tows differently..
4th..this one is related to #1..... back to speed.... many of you who had blowouts, how far had you driven non stop before it happened?? 5 miles or 200miles?? According to one thing on boat trailers I have read you should stop every 50 miles to check your hubs for overheating.... I vary that depending on how far I am driving... if only say 125miles, I will stop only once to check... 350 miles I will stop a few times, maybe 3 total unless hubs felt warm on one of the stops...what does this have to do with your tires?? well, it gives your tires a chance to cool down when you stop..plus if your hubs are getting too warm, chances are your tires are too...
5th, I got this little tidbit off of the carlisle website: http://www.carlisletire.com/product_care/articles/trailer_tire_safe... but could not find a list of the bad build code tires.... if there was a bad run surely this list exists people......please post it
6th.. almost forgot this one... the tires experiencing the blowouts, have they mostly been BIAS PLY or RADIALS??
Edited by kevin 4/7/2006 8:52 AM
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| I agree with Sorno...balancing does make a difference...I had all 4 of mine balanced just after buying it and it made a difference in towing...the correct PSI is a must...
I would recommend Good Year Marathons...maybe not the cheapest but who wants a tire to blow out on the way to Canada cuz you saved a few bucks... |
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Posts: 364
Location: Kentucky | Kevin,
The blowout I had was after going 20 miles on the return trip, interstate driving. I was doing about 70mph, which I would say is not unusual for crazy muskie anglers. I'm not saying all Carlisles are bad, but they lost my business. Just a percentage game same as muskie fishing. I won't fish topwater in water temps of 42 degrees, and I'll stick with Goodyear. |
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Posts: 32953
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The point I was trying to make and will continue to make is this, I had the brand many are saying is bulletproof fail, two in one trip, and those inflated exactly as required. I had a Carlisle fail on a single axle 1990 trailer, got the egg in the side that Theedz described. If indeed carlisle has too high a failure rate in ratio to sales, they need to address the situation or they will lose the OEM accounts they have; there are several other excellent alternatives.
Ugh, this is a perfect example of why I don't care use the sites you mention to do product comparisons. I never said I don't believe anyone here who has had a Carlisle tire fail, I simply related my experience. The vast majority of 'bash' posts elsewhere are anonymous, and completely unprovable by the publisher ( in this case MuskieFIRST). In some cases, I would bet the farm the person slinging stuff has never laid a finger on the product that is in the crosshairs that day, and is just furthering the train wreck along. Here we have registered AND unregistered users following the posting permissions and relating their experience, and without the almost embarrassing bashing that can occur elsewhere. Mine has been ok with the product, and I dirve lots of miles. One thing though, I use a tandem axle trailer, so that might have an effect on how the Carlisle tires fare for me. I ran Good Year on all my K Dee Launcher trailers, because that is what they sold for a number of years. I had as much trouble with those as I have with the other brand. What does that mean? Nothing, it's just my personal experience, just like your post. Lambeau said it well.
I'm not sure about the number on that run of 14" tires we had trouble with, but I am sure Trailmaster took care of us if the tire wasn't already near used up. They replaced mine at no charge, and that owner is still running the rig with the same skins.
I'm giving Carlisle a call today to see what they have to say, if I get through I'll post the response. |
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Posts: 5874
| Lots of info here, some correct some incorrect. Common thread? Carlisle tires failing. I had a Carlisle tire fail 2 years ago, summer. I was on the highway for about 20 miles, driving 65. I always check my pressures, and keep the trailer tires aired up to the max. When the tire failed, it dropped my speed from 65 to about 40 in seconds. I looked in the side mirror, and the trailer was literally 4 feet off the ground. That is how violent the result of the tread separating from the carcass was! There was extensive damage to the wheel and trailer, to the tune of nearly $1000. My tires were two years old at the time, and had probably 15,000 miles on them.
Upon filing a claim, I learned the tire was manufactured by Goodyear! I ended up filing the actual damage claim with Goodyear. Sent in the tire, along with estimates, and a couple weeks later, I received a check in the mail, which included the additional amount to pay for Goodyear Marathons.
Will I ever have Carlisle again? Probably. I may not have a choice, if that is what comes on the trailer I buy with the new boat. I will keep a close eye on them. I will have them balanced, and checked yearly. I will keep them properly inflated.
Was there a run of defective tires? I am not sure. Perhaps. But I have to believe that with as many failures I have heard of, that a red flag was put up, and Carlisle would have reviewed how they, or their subcontractors, are building the tires, and have made the necessary changes to correct this problem.
The best advice I can offer is to check your tires to ensure they are properly sized, properly inflated, balance them, and keep an eye on them. As for worrying about the sun destroying them? Well, how come nobody worries about the sun destroying the tires on your truck, or on your wife's car? If you are concerned about that, make some plywood covers to lean against them when the rig is parked.
Edited by Shep 4/7/2006 11:12 AM
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Posts: 32953
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | There it is, I was waiting to have someone else post that Carlisle tires were built by Goodyear. |
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| Well just because Good Year "makes" them doesnt mean they are of the same quality that other models of Good Years are, does it?
General Motors made the Geo Metro and also makes the Cadilac...are they the same quality? I doubt it....maybe Good Year owns Carlisle...or maybe they really do make them...in any case...maybe they are made to different standards, maybe different construction/components...the list goes on and on...just cuz some company makes them doesn't they are anywhere near the top quality of other brands they also carry....I'd do with the best warranty and best tire you can put on the rig... |
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Posts: 5874
| bnelson,
I neither said, nor did I imply, that they were made of the same quality as Goodyear's own tires. I merely stated that the Carlisle tires on my trailer were manufactured by Goodyear, and Goodyear paid my damage claim. Sheesh. |
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| As for worrying about the sun destroying them? Well, how come nobody worries about the sun destroying the tires on your truck, or on your wife's car? If you are concerned about that, make some plywood covers to lean against them when the rig is parked.
trailer tires are actually made quite differently than car/truck tires, and part of the process makes them susceptible to deterioration from the elements over time.
this link was posted earlier - there's a good description of it in the article:
http://www.carlisletire.com/product_care/articles/trailer_tire_safe... |
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| Mine blew out at dufferent speeds one over 70 and being on the road 6 hours. One after one hour and speeds less the 65 and one after 6 hours of speeds less the 65 with some stops duing that time. One other thing the manufacturer told me was since these were steel belted that if I let them sit to long they would develope a flat spot where on the bottom and that could lead to a problem. So these tires must be kept in the shade and off the pavement when not in use. I also learned they were manufactured by Good Year but didn't carry the GY name. |
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