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sworrall |
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Posts: 32890 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I was an attendee at the first Symposium in 1984, so knew that this was going to be very special. It was. The Hoosier Musky Hunters, Scott Law, and Kenton Smith did a great job with a volunteer force hosting a premier ALL muskie event. Many of the top scientific minds in North America attended. It was a pleasure listening to Dr. Casselman again. The presentation from Mrs. Crossman was touching, informative, and lent insight to the life and dedication to learing all things muskie by her husband, Dr. Ed Crossman. We had communicated a time or two over the years, and I must report the same as all the folks at the Symposium, Dr. Crossman was willing to talk muskies almost anytime. Very willing! Dr. Casselman's opening presentation was a pleasure to listen to, and an even larger pleasure to record on video and audio for the future. His belief that a 'trophy' muskie classification MUST be considered individually on any given water body paralleled much of what I have believed and freely written for a number of years. Not to steal the thunder form the Video and Audio presentation coming soon, but the idea nutshelled is this: Some waters will never support a population of fish that reach 45, or for that matter, 50". Those waters, though mostly incapable of producing HUGE fish for multiple reasons Dr. Casselman describes as do other scientists during the sessions at the Symposium, do produce fish in a class that, for sake of conversation, might peak at 46". That fish, and the 1% that statistically might exceed that size there, are definitely TROPHY class fish on that water, and any angler successful in catching a fish that size from that water can be as proud as one catching a 50" to 55" muskie from Wabigoon. Perspective, everyone, is everything. Expecting or demanding 50" fish from all muskie waters across the continent isn't realistic, and actually, my opinion only here, detracts from the true nature of the sport. I give as much or more credit for expertise to an angler who consistently catches mid 40" fish from the Madison Chain as I do one who catches 48 to 50" fish with regularity from LOTW. Apparently, that ideal is supported by many in the muskie related scientific community. Much was discussed about genetics, including the interesting opening breakfast presentation by Larry Ramsell which was basically a restatement of his position and that of the Wisconsin Muskie Restoration Project team. I cannot imagine what was going through the minds of the Wisconsin scientists, fisheries managers, and DNR folks in attendance, but I AM sure Mr. Ramsell had their undivided attention. I took home an awful lot from the Symposium, and what seemed to me to be the general consensus was that there IS NO SILVER BULLET 'strain' of muskies that will automatically 'fix' a perceived problem on any muskie water. Interestingly, the Leech Lake strain failed completely in a three strain comparitive introduction study done on three water bodies in Illinois, ranging from the cooler northern area to southern Illinois, while the Ohio strain excelled. I spoke to the fisheries manager who was and is in charge of the Nancy Lake Leech strain project. He stated that natural reproduction of that strain failed to maintain a workable structure of Leech Lake muskies in Nancy, despite the fact that for quite some time those fish saw very little pressure. The lake doesn't have enough brood sized fish remaining to use for egg collection. Conversely, fish that were taken from Deer Lake for the single hook live bait study successfully REPRODUCED in a one acre lined pond used to house the fish for the study. I will leave it to all of you to draw your own conclusions about this and all the other issues covered after listening to and watching the many presentations as MuskieFIRST is able to encode and post the material. What I heard from most scientists was PATIENCE with any program underway is critical, habitat protection and enhancement are paramount, and careful study including a suggestion from one scientist that an impact study might be required by some states before introducing a foreign strain of any fish into a waterbody. Greg Ide was not actually as easy to find there as he had posted on MH, but I finally found him wearing a shirt that stated 'Leech Lake Muskies Rule'. Where they thrive, they actually might eventually take a back seat in the maximum size/weight catagory to the fish from Green Bay in the future, and might certainly to those from Georgian Bay and the Larry, but that remains to be seen. The Minnesota program has been incredibly successful, yet even Jack Wingate from the MN DNR cautioned that the best strain for use in any area's waters is the strain that has adapted to those waters, and the Leech Lake fish might not be a magic formula for all waters. Greg, it was good to see you again. We should share a boat again this coming summer, maybe I can show you a few of ourbutt ugly bronze heavy NE Wisconsin 50" plus fish! Where, according to the panel, is the next record fish to come from? Georgian Bay? Wabigoon? LOTW? Dr. Casselman thinks the St. Lawrence, if it is to be over 70 pounds. Over 60, the Georgian Bay fish, perhaps future Green Bay spotteds, and the St Lawrence are great candidates if one listened to the scientists' many presentations.. Much rests on the time of the year the fish is caught, with later seasons supporting heavier fish because of spawn carried in the late fall and early winter. Bright spots for us Wisconsin anglers? WOW! Kevin Kapuscinski's presentation on the Green Bay fish was enough to get any trophy hunter's blood pumping. The future looks VERY bright there, and more efforts are going to be extended on the Winnebago system with that strain of spotted muskie. Leechers are going to be stocked in 7 lakes up north in Northwestern Wisconsin, and of course in the lakes and rivers already discussed many times here. Our muskies need more maximum size protection on many lakes to reach their potential maximum size, and support for that goal is growing. Harvest of large muskies is falling and CPR increasing, and the conservation ethic expanding. Single hook rigs are to be a thing of the past as a result of public pressure to eliminate their use, with survival and growth of hundreds of muskies that would otherwise have certainly perished after 'release' (with an ingested single hook) over the next decade to the maximum size the result. One thing for sure. We, as muskie enthusiasts, are all in this together. Working and communicating with our respective DNR officials, with a cooperative effort between all muskie communities; and as Dr. Casselman called for, MASTER plan development across borders and social structures, state lines and other meaningless map related boundaries means success for our muskie waters now and decades down the road. Concepts, ideas, and strategies can and should be shared, disagreement discussed amongst us all and setteled by the experts in the field without the current animosity and fractious behavior displayed between 'factions' in many areas, as that, IMHO, is a poison in the veins of our Muskie related future. This was a dizzying experience for Andrew, Nikki, Sue and me, running from one presentation to the next to arrive just in time to miss the first couple statements on camera. What an event! Look for much more on the Ed Crossman Muskies Inc International Muskie Symposium here at MuskieFIRST in the near future! Again, many thanks for the incredible hospitality extended by the Hoosier Musky Hunters, and the many presenters and participants attending the event. Attachments ----------------  Welcome!.jpg (28KB - 141 downloads) | ||
| BRAINSX |
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Nice summary Steve. Good to see you (and AJ) again. The symosium was indeed very worhtwhile for all--JK
Attachments ---------------- Jeff listens to Dr. Casselman.jpg.JPG (77KB - 135 downloads) | |||
| sworrall |
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Posts: 32890 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | |||
| Larry Ramsell |
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| muskyboy |
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| sworrall |
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Posts: 32890 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | |||
| sworrall |
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Posts: 32890 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | |||
| BRAINSX |
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| firstsixfeet |
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| Brainsx, Unfortunately too many of your dang colleagues DO fish them in WI to the point of cluttering up and pressuring my favorite waters up there so badly I am considering relocating my seasonal trek to some other less pressured waters. Once again there seems to be that catchphrase of the grass is greener crowd, "superior genetics", when it really is in no way justified. Please when talking about various sub pops of musky, DON'T use that "superior" phrase, and do instead recognize that the fish have differing traits and makeups which have evolved over time. I will even concede that they might have been bred into populations artificially over time, but won't even entertain any words stronger than "might have been". Also, as far as attracting musky fisherman in droves, I live in a state with limited waters to fish and know what attracting fisherman in droves is about already, and doubt any reasonable fisherman in WI really want to do that to any lakes. Also the economic impact of bigger musky and chances of a world record in WI are at best exceedingly theoretical, and most likely, wishful thinking on the part of LL strain proponents. I would encourage you in your search for bigger and "better" musky results, and hope that you will take some of those less informed idiots fishing my favorite lake with you when you trek to MN, Canada and parts other. As for me I will happily pursue the density and size of the WI musky population, inferior though it might be.  | |||
| sworrall |
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Posts: 32890 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I think the WIDNR began that process 4 years ago in Oneida County with a review of the stocking and management practices here, and quite some time ago in Green Bay. According to the presentation by Kevin Kapuscinski, the Green Bay population is doing very well from the upper confidence limit sizes described. Those same fish are being introduced into the Winnebago system. Speaking of upper confidence limits, I know of several waters here in my area that regularly produce fish in the 48 to 53" catagories, very heavily bodied, and into the mid 40# class. Respectable performance for lakes under 1000 acres; one lake I fish provides multiple fish opportunities from several NR year classes, and kicked out two fish that were 51.5 and 51 this year. I fish there alot, and have never seen another muskie angler. Another that is about 500 acres produced at least 5 from just under 50" to over 51.5" this year I could confirm, all released and all the product of stocking as that water has no native muskie population. One was caught by Norm Wild. The other puddle is less than 250 acres and only 17' deep, and is LOADED with big Northern Pike, but somehow the muskies stocked a very long time ago adapted nicely and produced several good year classes over the last decade. There has been no muskies introduced there for a quite some time. Of course, our Wisconsin River system kicks out big fish pretty regularly under what IS light fishing pressure on that immense system of river, impoundment, and tributaries. FSF, just head on up to the Hideout next season and I will show you excellent opportunity for big girls on lightly pressured waters. Bring your cell phone along, we will throw it as far as we can out into the depths...kidding, just kidding. There are multiple Leech Lake strain stockings planned and underway side by side with Wisconsin stocks, including Wissota ( First WI MI), Madison Chain ( Madison Chapter MI) Petenwell ( not sure, Reef hawg can help here) and seven lakes described as in the St. Croix Basin as I remember it, the tapes are on the way to Zach right now so I can't check on that. One lake was mentioned by name, Shell Lake. It seems the larger controversy is in the Hayward area, and lakes in the Chippewa and St Croix area. Debate continues, but bottom line is the State is very aware of the issues there and seems to be working toward what might be several possible successful paths at once. The issue in my opinion isn't just Leech Lake fish VS Wisconsin fish, it's a combination of habitat, water chemistry, competition form other species, publicly mandated management goals that may not mesh exactly with the desires of the elite muskie far right ( as in me, and folks as crazy about muskies as I am), and much much much more. The video tapes from the symposium should assist in making this all alot more clear, hopefully I have the gist correct. I sincerly hope the grand experiments hosted by the MI clubs and active members of the muskie community here in Wisconsin are successful, and the lakes and rivers with spotted muskie introductions show immediate and solid promise. That's the hope indicated by everyone I spoke with at the Symposium. I think the best way to describe the atmosphere surrounding this issue is 'guarded optimism'. All we need is for someone to tell those muskies to do better here than they apparently did in the Illinois studies The top fish is from the 500 acre puddle, middle fish from a lake under 200 acres, and the bottom the 500 acre lake again. Attachments ---------------- IMAG0004.JPG (82KB - 129 downloads) IMAG0035.JPG (104KB - 114 downloads) IMAG0051.JPG (96KB - 131 downloads) | ||
| sorenson |
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Posts: 1764 Location: Ogden, Ut | |||
| BRAINSX |
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| Scott Law |
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| Steve, Thank you and your crew for covering the Dr. Ed Crossman Symposium. Your time and efforts recording the event is of value to the fishing community. As with the purpose of the event, your team helped gather the information presented by all our guest speakers. The research papers are in their second review by the Technical Advisory Committee. Hopefully, the final publication of papers will be available next summer. Twenty years have passed since the last symposium in 1984. Much has been learned by the scientific community in regards to musky management. The abstracts posted on this site can give muskie anglers quality information as to the studies from researchers, biologists and MNR/DNR managers. The final publication will have all the presentations from the symposium. The goal for Muskies, Inc will be to host another symposium in 8-10 years. The scientific community is pleased to know that Muskies, Inc is interested in hosting events such as the symposium. Again, thank you and your crew for investing your time and talent as reporters at the Symposium. Sincerely, Scott Law Symposium Chairman | |||
| Guest |
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| sworrall |
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Posts: 32890 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | |||
| Don Pfeiffer |
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| Reef Hawg |
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| sworrall |
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Posts: 32890 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | |||
| MuskieFIRST |
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Posts: 507 | |||
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