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| Now I know why I don't post on these web sites that often.
We better get rid of the Zoo's. I saw a monkey throwing dung in his cage one time. He must had been stressed too.
Let the monkeys loose!
My last post. |
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Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Hey Rick, why is it MuskieFIRST's 'fault' John Skarie wants to have his say( as much as I disagree with what was said)? Is it a bad thing to discuss the issues of the day, despite the fact some folks don't want to stay within the polite rules of debate? We don't allow any argument to get out of hand, and try very hard to keep it pretty clean here. Most, in fact the vast majority of the threads here are information based and very positive.
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Posts: 172
| Steve
I can only tell you what I was told by the guys that I know that fished it. I wasn't there like you were. I also heard some good things and was only commenting as to why some of the guys I know were not going to fish it again this year. I know some who wanted to fish it again. Good or bad, there had to be a reason the tournament could not get enough people to fish it. |
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| In my post I had never mentioned it being Muskie Firsts fault.
Everyone has there right to there opinion. Just as I had (Even though I was joking about the monkeys)
Muskie First can be a valuable resource of information there is no doubt. I was not blaming them for anything anyone has said. I mearly stated that I think I'll keep my opinion to myself from now on and not make another post. Even though I had to reply back to you.
I'll stick to helping people on here with there fiberglass or gel-coat issues if they want it.
Sorry if you took me wrong.
I did see that monkey do it
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Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | That's what I was worried about, you have valuable information many might eventually ask about, would hate to see you not willing to post, and would do what I could to convice you to... 
Backlash,
Agreed, I'm just making sure we stick to the facts during the discussion. |
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Posts: 654
Location: MPLS, MN | I think if you have total respect for the resource you don't fish at all. Of course that is the best for it. So you have to talk about degree of negative affect. That's why I would never tell someone they can't fish a tourny or keep a fish if they choose. However I still feel tourny life is about ego and money and I fish to get away from that. I also know that any added stress will increase mortality. Whether it's waiting for a judge boat or holding the fish up for a picture. So to me each is entitled to make their own choice on the degree they are willing to add to the fish. I just don't think any added stress is worth it just to make a buck or hype oneself up. |
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Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | There's the problem, you don't understand the competitive angler. Only one team wins, JUST ONE. Seciond Place is, as they say, first loser. Anyone who thinks they will make a living at competitive muskie angling is delusional, so that's not it either. Most of the competitors are not in this to 'make a buck or hype oneself up', they are in it because they enjoy the challenge, the competition, and the comraderie. Tournament angling can be alot of fun, I see it all the time. In most every case except for a few Walleye Pros and a slightly larger Bass professional base, no one is making much of a living on fishing tournaments.
So tell me who won the last three PMTT events. Quick now, don't go look, just list them. That's what I thought, very few others could answer that, either. So much for hyping, right? Now in the case of Bob's event, Jason Long has a ring and a check. What's his partner's name? He won a couple more last year too, and is one heck of a stick. Nice guy, too.
Most cases the tournamnet folks take very good care of the resource. The competitive force out there is also responsible for much of the development of the products most of us enjoy, that's another point. All in all, competitive angling has such an insignificant biological impact and such a major promotional and industry impact, the positives outweigh the negatives IMHO. Most of the negatives, by the way are perceived, not reality.
As far as respect for the resource, the entire idea behind a state managing any water for Muskies is angling, pure and simple. Without the desire to fish for them by the public, there would have beenand would not be any management, so not fishing muskies out of 'respect' would be devastating in many waters. Look at what Cory Painter and a few dedicated folks are doing in Wisconsin, that's a direct result of fishing muskies, and fishing them alot! |
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Keeping muskies in a net over the side of a boat is penning them up.
As far as I'm concerned, that's as amatuer as you can get when it comes to handling muskies.
Plain and simple, muskies are handled longer during tournies so people can win money and beat their chest.
If that's not the case, if you guys aren't fishing for those reasons than get rid of the money, and just fish.
You can call me selfrightous and impolite all you want. What I am is blunt, and I'm saying things you don't want to hear.
I'm not out to win a popularity contest with tournament fishermen, or "pros".
JS |
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Posts: 654
Location: MPLS, MN | sworrall - 9/2/2005 3:11 PM
1.] There's the problem, you don't understand the competitive angler.
2.] Most cases the tournamnet folks take very good care of the resource. The competitive force out there is also responsible for much of the development of the products most of us enjoy, that's another point.
3.] As far as respect for the resource, the entire idea behind a state managing any water for Muskies is angling, pure and simple. Without the desire to fish for them by the public, there would have beenand would not be any management, so not fishing muskies out of 'respect' would be devastating in many waters.
1.] No, I don't understand competitive angling. I fish to get away from that. The day to day grind of work is enough competition for me. Like I said though, I don't try to ban people from it. I just throw in my 2 cents on the issue.
2.] The fact is most people do not fish tournies and before there were tournies there were many products to choose from and I feel that new products would always come about. Plus most new products are mere rip offs of the old ones before the big tournie days. Muskies Inc would be around without tournies. Lure companies also. I don't give much credit, if any to tournies for that.
3.] Sure on stocked water it would be. But if the fish went untouched on natural waters I don't see the negative. Fish have survived thousands and thousands of years in natural waters that went untouched. So if no one fished we would have a much more natural resource and I feel that would be the best for it. Don't get me wrong, I fish every weekend. Just stating that if no one fished, the NATURAL {Not artificial stocking} resource would be better off.
To each their own. That's just my opinion though. No hard feelings or any of that.
Edited by Obfuscate Musky 9/2/2005 3:43 PM
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Posts: 1023
Location: Lafayette, IN | John,
I tend to think more like you than most on this board. (maybe not) Having said that, even though I outgrew the "I caught a bigger (more) fish than you" thing many years ago I'd be lying if I didn't admit that I've learned volumes more from those hard nosed competitors in bass and musky fishing. They inspire me to work a little harder, to refine my presentations, to take advantage of peek windows, to not become lazy about excelling in an activity I've enjoyed my whole life. I don't see myself outfishing most people but I still get a tremendous thrill knowing that with every fish caught I'm demonstating a better understanding of what the competitors have taught me through their hard work. Have I learned from non-competitive anglers? YOU BET!!! Just not as much. There's certainly room for both. Oh, did I mention I take pictures of most of my fish? (bass included) Now why do you suppose I do that?
Thanks for sharing you honest thoughts. There's room for that. Now....prepare to cast......CAST!
Edited by stephendawg 9/2/2005 3:49 PM
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Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Mr. Skarie,
Again, you are stating the extreme, not the usual. It's obvious you don't like Pros and don't like tournments, either, so that's been established. You overstate the issue, and are just plain rude in your commentary, which is a far sight from 'blunt'. That's where credibility ends, popularity contests notwithstanding. Let's get you in a room with 100 teams fishing the Kevin Worrall memorial, and see how nasty and personal you are willing to be in attacking those anglers.
Your perspective is different, and that, sir doesn't make you right/wrong or the competitive anglers right/wrong. I stated that muskie mortality from handling in Competitive events is statitically and boiologically insignificant. I stand by that statement.
And, you are way off topic, beating a drum which has nothing to do with the original conversation.
OM,
'2.] The fact is most people do not fish tournies and before there were tournies there were many products to choose from and I feel that new products would always come about. Plus most new products are mere rip offs of the old ones before the big tournie days. Muskies Inc would be around without tournies. Lure companies also. I don't give much credit, if any to tournies for that.'
Well, Ive been working in that industry for thirty years, and can tell you in absolutley NO uncertain terms that competition and tournies out there have driven new product development for that entire 30 years. Boats, gear, lures, and more, competition and promotion are part of the game and critical to developing new products. Muskie Inc used and uses competition; both tournaments and the Lunge Log, to drive recruitment and spread the word about muskie conservation, and without that competition in each club on a hometown level all the way to the International that organization wouldn't be where it is, and that's a fact. August issue, MI magazine, Page 38. Pomme De Terre Muskie open tournament. $4000 cash and prizes. Page 34, Headwaters report, talks about the succes of the Spring Challenge Tournament, $15000 first place, this is a very established event. Page 35, Hayward Chapter talks about the 27th annual Fall Tournament. Another established event, this is the 27th year. Page 33, sidebar mention of 8 tournaments hosted by local clubs. Page 26, Frank Schneider International, 38th time this one has hit the water. Page 16, full page for the Hayward Lakes chapter event. You get my point, I think.
This isn't a 'purist's' sport, and probably never will be. I persoanlly feel that's a good thing. Everyone has the choice to fish competitively or not, and those who wish to will, those who wish not to won't. I feel it's equally important that neither group attempts to minimize or diminish the importance of the other, that's self destructive to the sport. I appreciate your position, and believe it or not understand it completely'
To no one in particular:
I guess I have a problem with folks who contribute little to the knowledge base here, rarely or never answering questions or providing advice or help to those looking for it, who arbitrarily show up to toss a rock at someone's plate glass window once in awhile just to break the thing. Sorry for the rant...
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Posts: 172
| John,
Let me ask you a question. If every boat had a judge in it and the fish was measured and released right away, would that be ok with you or is it just the money thing that bothers you? Be nice. |
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Posts: 654
Location: MPLS, MN | As far as new products it's truely impossible to know. I feel we would have many of the same products we have now. Maybe not all but maybe differant ones. I feel the sport would be just fine without them. But again I'm not trying to ban tournies. To me basically like I said it's the opposite reason I personaly fish. The thing I personaly think is unarguable is the longer they are handled the worse off they are. Whether it's waiting for a judge boat or taking a pictures, and I do the latter on anything over 40"s.
Edited by Obfuscate Musky 9/2/2005 5:20 PM
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Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Om,
Yes, the first paragraph was in response to Mr. Skarie's statements. |
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Posts: 654
Location: MPLS, MN | LOL, I just noticed that and edited my post.
thanks |
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| About Steve's statement about those who show up once in a while and throw rocks at the glass.....
(if I knew how do do the fancy quote window thing I would)
RIGHT ON STEVE...........
Some people only know how to point fingers and complain, and that has nothing to do with stating an opinion, people fish, people compete, some people like to do both BIG DEAL. I am willing to wager more fish are harmed from I'll equipped beginners every day than all the "pros" combined . If the rock throwers are so "worried" about the resource they should flat out quit or take it upon themselves to educate every single novice in the sport about fish handleing. It's always the same people lurking and ready to point fingers that contribute so little to the good stuff that happens on these boards.
And my personal observation is that since I started keeping my fish "penned" in the net a bit longer all I have to do is tip them out and they swim strongly away.....much more so than if I rush to get them out and "release" them.
Bob T |
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