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Posts: 32903
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Ben
Perhaps you missed the statement that the survival rate under heavy summer hot weather angling on the systems in Missouri is one of the highest documented. We're again looking at two different situations, two different waters, and markedly different temps than we are talking here in Wisconsin and Minnesota, for much longer sustained periods of time. The temps here on our local waters are down considerably, and falling today as well with clouds, wind, and rain. |
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Since it was asked, I'll reply.
I have a BS in Aquatic Biology from Bemidji State University, 1993. I worked for the MNDNR in Bemidji and Walker.
My work primarily was done on muskie waters, Leech, Little Boy, Wabedo, Cass,Elk, Plant, etc.
I was (and still am occasionaly as a volunteer) involved in egg collecting, population assesments (electrofishin and spring netting) , and growth studies with muskies.
I also did a lot of work mapping lake vegetation, and doing temp. D/O profiles on many lakes in the Walker area.
Currently I am self-empoyed. I have a greenhouse where I raise hydroponic tomatoes, and I work for county, state and private interests Delineating Wetlands.
So I do have some training and first hand knowledge when it comes to muskies, and aquatic ecosystems in general.
At any rate, in my work history, I've never met anyone who has as much hands on and research experience as Bob Stand has in regards to muskies. He has worked all over MN and in Canada for decades specializing in muskie management and research.
In my mind, the 1st and last word on muskies comes from Bob and Rod, and others in MN who have made our state into a muskie mecca through years of hard work and understanding of these great fish.
So with that I will leave this conversation. It's getting pretty obvious that some people don't want to believe what is being said, and won't change their minds no matter what they are told, or who is telling it.
JS
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Posts: 8800
| BenR - 7/20/2005 12:31 PM
... They clearly have the same problem as IL does if you look at from a layman's view. Their lakes do not put out 50 inch fish. They tend to top out at mid- to high- 40's. ...Ben
I have to believe this isn't the only factor involved, though. Look at the #'s of 50" fish MN is putting out these days with just a handful of musky lakes compared to the #'s WI is putting out with hundreds of musky lakes.
Structure plays a role, forage base plays a role, the strain of fish plays a role, and I'm sure angling pressure plays a role as well, but look at some of the Metro lakes that are turning out 50 after 50 -- you can't tell me there isn't a sh*tpile of guys pounding those waters to a froth day after day.
Obviously the shoepac vs leech strain vs etc. conversation shouldn't be had here, but lets not forget there is more than one factor in determining how big a musky will grow.
Jeff |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | where ya been addict .... sconnie is on fire ....
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| EA
there are lakes declining in the metro,, not all but some are not what they were 5 yrs ago,,they show the numbers but not the average size they once did,,Bald Eagle, Eagle,and harriet are examples,,the lakes seem to go in spurts a lake will peak for a while then the word gets out and it gets pounded to pieces and it falls off for a few years,,people dont use the tiger lakes or very few do,,Im thinking we should ask the DNR to convert half the tiger lakes to purestrain to help ease all the pressure |
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Posts: 32903
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | John,
The fact Mr. Strand is a top shelf muskie management expert has not been challenged, and I might point out he hasn't posted here. Same goes for Rod Ramsell, who I feel is one of the best out there. The point many are attempting to make which you seem to be unwilling or unable to observe, is that there is a wide range of systems out there across Wisconsin and Minnesota and the effects of a warm weather period like we've experienced is different on each system type; taking it even further there are circumstances on cetain lakes that 'add to' the temperature problem. There was and IMHO still is a tendency to overstate the impact on the muskies, and the desire here is to reach a general consensus on whatever fact we can gather from experts in this field of science.
' It's getting pretty obvious that some people don't want to believe what is being said, and won't change their minds no matter what they are told, or who is telling it.'
Loosely translated, I assume you are disappointed that what you posted isn't 'the last word'. Many times I have found that 'what they are told, or who is telling it' is taken out of context, applied to the debate as an absolute when in fact the commentary was in response to a similar, but not completely applicable question, or used in debate to attempt to prove an unrelated point. As a result, I have the tendency to pick up the telephone and make a few calls to try to obtain enough information to confirm or question what has been presented in the interest of accuracy. There are many very sharp scientific minds working in the fisheries field, and many of those working with Muskies. Forgive me for getting more than one point of view, but journalistic protocol demands that at least three concurring points of view DIRECTLY FROM THE EXPERT SOURCE be presented before even thinking about publishing something as absolute concrete fact.
No animosity from this desk, just questions and answers, related as accurately as possible.
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Posts: 8800
| Sled,
On fire is right!
I baked in the sun for three days up on Namekagon. Did not even SEE a fish.
Next weekend is Petenwell, which I've never fished before. Maybe try Pewaukee and/or Okauchee in the fall, hit the Madison Chain a few more times when it cools off, and then I think November might just push me down to Webster.
I had a great early season, but it's been slow for about a month.
Jeff
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I know I said I was out of this convo, but one last statement.
My comment about people not wanting to believe what they are hearing has nothing to do with my saying or thinking it.
It doesn't matter what the issue is, vertical holds, hot water, kill rigs, judge boats, etc.
Many fishermen will do anything they can to not believe people who say these things are harmful to the fishery. In many cases it's because they don't want to change the way they fish. Or they don't want to believe what they are doing could be harmful to the fishery.
It's much like global warming. People who don't want to change how they live, or be more conservative in thier lifestyle will not believe what they are doing is harmful, no matter who says it is.
I have Bob Strand's home # if anyone wants to call him.
Rod Ramsells thoughts on this subject have been published in Esox Anlger.
For anyone who wants to read his comments first hand, look there.
JS |
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| Shouldn't we dare to ask the questions? Shouldn't we attempt to get all the answers? Isn't that education at work?
The question was asked so answers can be found. Good thread!
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | addict .... the extended high pressure i think has made typical pattern fishing difficult at best at least around here but the deeper water pattern is working for alot of people. i'm at a huge disadvantage because i just was not a suspended fish player in the past, so i'm trying hard to adjust to the 10 - 25' presentation program. it's been fun buying more baits and challenging the old brain again.
be interesting to hear why people think so many more big fish are being caught this year. temps. & system response, more reporting and information via interenet etc..., or BST as jlong and cady so elequently put it, it's so hot out that people are doing like me and changing tactics to deeper water where those fish have always lived under less pressure? i tend to believe the last comment in that string.
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