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Posts: 7119
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | Lots of talk about how many baits lately, and there is always the question of WHAT bait, but we seem to disregard WHY we choose the bait that we choose.
HOW do you choose your baits at any given time, and WHY do you choose them? |
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| slamr,
I use baits that are proven on the lake I'm going to fish. If I'm going to fish a new lake, I do a lot of research during these slow winter months. Then I will be able to fish a high percentage bait the first time on the water. |
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| I like to use Super Shap Raps and Hoginator's in Natural colors. Why becuse it is the color of the bait fish and I mostly fish in stain and darker color water.
Thanks LeMay OUT |
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Posts: 4266
| Time on the water.
If something doesn't work, try something else is you think that you should be seeing or catching fish.
Try to put a pattern together.
Certain lures are made for certain locations and conditions.
If at first you don't suceed.........
Beav |
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Posts: 7119
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | Try to put a pattern together.
Certain lures are made for certain locations and conditions.
Ok, now explain what that means!
I think too often we as much fisherman LOVE having lots of lures, we LOVE to throw all these lures....but we rarely think of why we use what lure in what conditions/locations/situations.
I think we need to ask WHY more often than what.
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Posts: 2088
| Naturally you should try to judge what the "mood" of the fish will be for a given situation (time of year, current weather, depth, ect) and then I believe it is all about confidence-
I have confidence in 6" jakes and small bucktails in the spring , big gliders and topwater in summer, big cranks and BIG bucktails in fall
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Posts: 7119
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | But HOW do you judge the mood of the fish? |
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| lures are toys. it's another reason that muskie fishing is better than walleye fishing. what's the fun of jigs?
of course, i think it's Mr. Pearson who says that 5 lures of each type should be adequate...
i start out trying to predict (ha! "guess" really) what the fish are doing and match the choice to that.
once i get some feedback from the fish, i'll refine my choices.
are the fishing following low and slow? perhaps more of a finesse approach is called for.
are they following but not hitting? same type of lure with a change to color or size. maybe speed it up.
no follows at all? make a radical change of lure type, location, etc. until you get some response.
more likely i just ignore everything and keep throwing the Weagle. 
the lure progression idea in the recent Musky Hunter article is a great guideline for this.
Edited by lambeau 2/11/2005 10:38 AM
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Posts: 122
Location: Pittsburgh, PA | I start with the basic selection process written in every magazine. Spring smaller baits 4" to 6", Summer and Fall larger baits. Clear water = natural colors, stained = bright color. Then I rig 4 rods, spinner, jig, crank or glide (depending on my mood), and topwater. Depending on the weather conditions is what I throw first. If I am fishing with someone, I try to use different style/speed of bait.
I haven't been fishing muskie long enough to decide if it is successful or not.
Rich D |
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Posts: 7119
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | Depending on the weather conditions is what I throw first.
Rich: what conditions dictate what baits?
****yes, I am going to be very annoying on this one****
The message board needs more MEATY INFO, lets get some going. Let's learn new ways of thinking about muskies, not just new stuff to cast at them! |
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Posts: 1310
Location: Washington, PA | I let the mojo lead the way.
If that doesn't work, my experience is that it all comes down to water temperature, water clarity and the weather. Putting patterns together can only come from experience. On the streams and rivers, if the weather is clear and sunny, with clear water, gliders and dawgs in bright colors get the nod. On typical good muskie days I'll be throwing a lot of topwaters. If its raining, I'll be throwing a spinnerbait. In the winter, I pretty much just throw jigs, but I've caught topwater fish in february before.
No reason as to why, simply because I tried it, it worked, so maybe it will work again. |
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Posts: 122
Location: Pittsburgh, PA | post cold front or early season, I start with either the jig or a slow crank bait retrieve.
If the weather has been stable, I normally start with the spinner bait or a jerkbait or if my partner is using one of these, the topwater.
If there is a front moving in, I start burning spinners or an erratic jerkbait retrieve. I also will switch to larger baits here.
I am always unsure how long to stick with a bait.
Rich D |
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Posts: 699
Location: Hugo, MN | LamBo if only we'd had a Blaze Orange Weagle last summer on the Trap!! |
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| thanks. now my PTSD is triggered for another month...
had a blowup on a perch weagle (orange belly) this fall on the Trap. stupid fish.
more on topic:
my goal for this year is start my selection process with faster baits to find active fish (i gotta kick this severe glider habit i have...). |
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Posts: 440
| 40-52 degrees.......glide baits, twitch baits and DDD. Length of pauses and size to be decided by the fish that day.
52-65 degrees.....jackpots/docs. twitch baits, dawgs and DDD.
65-80 degrees.....trolling larger baits, grandmas/believers, mag dawgs, suicks and the occasional topwater... again fish decide speed on that day
This is just my personal hell that I deal with, if it were my choice it would bucktails, spinnerbaits and tail rotating topwater all the time. |
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Posts: 224
Location: Madison | Slamr - 2/11/2005 10:33 AM
But HOW do you judge the mood of the fish?
I judge by what the fish is (or isn't) showing me.
If I see fish come in very hot on follows, I will consider upping my lure size, or going to a more fast-moving presentation like a topraider or burning a bucktail.
If I see follows that are very lazy and far back, I often downsize my lures, and will choose a bait that's slower-moving or that I feel is better for less aggressive fish. Jerkbaits and plastics are my favorites.
If I'm not seeing any follows on spots where I know there are fish, I dial way back. Plastics, jigs, that sort of thing. If I still can't buy a follow after an hour or two, I often experiment by throwing out the gaudiest, most fast-moving bait I can find. Jump to the other end of the spectrum. It's not a high-percentage tactic, but that's when I really practice action with new baits I want to try out or get better at fishing.
-d |
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| There are a lot of factors that come into play when I decide what to throw. Color - what is the water like dark/stained/clear, what is the weather like cloudy/sunny/windy, what is the forage available sucker/panfish/perch/ciscoe/shad/walleye/ and on and on. Then where am I fishing and what do I need the lure to do? Skim over the tops of some cabbage or are the fish burried down in them in a negative mood and need a lulre to get down into the weed beds. Rock pile or rocks with weeds, am I fishing the pile edges & open water or do I need something to bang into the rocks and make some ruckus. Time of year used to dictate the size of the lures I would choose but not anymore. I can't tell you how many times in the spring I have had a large musky come uip and try to snatch a 15", 18" walleye. Aggressiveness of the fish - am I seeing lazy follows or are they charging the lure down. After all this then again, sometimes muskies are muskies and I have no freakin clue what they are doing or want!
My first approach is usually to "match the hatch" with what forage is available and then move on to what I "think" the mood of the fish will be depending on time of year and the weather. Then I consider what structure or area I am fishing. And when all else fails I go to the bar. |
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| Most spots (of course some are small and quicker to fish than others) I work with at least 3 baits, from surface baits to a Reaper etc. Guess I pick them by breaking the water column into depth and cover zones. Most of my spots have crankbait water, spinnerbait water etc all available, depending where you start the pass. Threw a lot more topwater last season, and plan on working a surface bait to cap off high %age areas every time this season. My colour choice is boring, so's my lure collection. |
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| How about this reasoning; please feel free to criticize it.
I am very grateful for the important info I have read about: lures being tools, covering a range of depths adequately, the experiences of Doug Johnson ...(eg. using the bucktail all season as outlined in another post), and "if it moves, it's food" plus Dick Pearson's writings.
They suggest to me that perhaps there are about 4 types of lures we need: surface bait....just subsurface.....deeper....and one type to attack the bottom. Probably the first 3 types are what we use most of the time.
When fishing a spot, it is very frustrating to see following fish that won't commit and I tend to fall into the trap of thinking that all the fish are like that on that day and so I must be onto a pattern. I then attempt to do something magic or try to get those other neutral fish to go and it's then a tour through the tackle box.
I am sure there are folks who are very talented when it comes to changing fish attitude, unfortunately I'm not skilled in that area.
Maybe, I would be better off fishing for active fish using faster presentations at any depth chosen.
If I don't see fish, I think I'd be better off assuming that they are not there (rather than neutral) and not worrying about how to convince them to bite on a new lure or a special color. Focusing on covering the water completely then moving on might be the best thing to do.
Neutral or not there....how does one tell the difference anyway if no fish are raised?
So if I was covering depth zones...why not try a fast topwater....if that is a no go...try a bucktail or spinnerbait, or a jarkbait....if that is unsuccessful try a deeper presentation (deep diver or spinnerbait) and as long as it is not too deep finally a lizard type lure.
Match color to the water type with an eye to contrast as being most important and that's what to use?
This year I am going to try this....a Topraider....a big black bucktail......a spinnerbait and something for the deeps. Maybe throw in a jailbird suick or believer to relieve boredom. And I am going to stick to those.
I think I could do without the bucktail as a spinnerbait could take its place.
The one area not really explored very well I think is the deepest one. The material I have seen by Mr. Howie Meyer who posts on this board I think will be the most useful in the future. It is amazing !
Sorry for being a long winded amateur. |
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Posts: 691
Location: nationwide | I email the wife and tell her I am writing a reply to this post and it is a tough question . . . . her reply, which I cleaned up slightly. “Tough question, you're butt! like he says, how do you know what the fish are thinking?”
My reply to her . . . .
I don't spend a lot of time trying to think like a fish - because they don't either. They spawn in the spring, eat all summer, and go deep in the fall. They do not think about it, they just react to their environment and seasons.
So from that we need to find out where they spawn, where they eat their meals in the summer, and where they hang out in deep water. My job is to intercept their travels and get them to try and eat what I am using. And that is where it gets tough because it is not like deer hunting, or it is like deer hunting, with a rod and reel and a cob of corn with hooks in it. A lot of what I do and throw has to do with experience on the water and knowing the fish as a species. Confidence in what you are throwing goes a long way because if you are digging through the tackle box when drifting a spot you may have just missed your shot for the day . . . . or worse. That is why I have 3 rods rigged most times with different favorite lures, hook the bait up you are using set the rod down, grab another one, unhook and cast. To switch takes less time, and if I am going to change lures I will normally do it when either leaving or beginning an area, not in the middle of it. But if I do decide to change in the middle of an area I will usually know what I am changing to rather than just sit there and stare into the tackle box.
The lures I call favorites and color schemes are again from experience . . . both good and bad . . . and learning from them. Fishing with partners in the boat makes a difference as well. When by myself I will try to use baits that cover water, to fish more spots, to try and contact an active fish. When with partners I try to throw at least 2 different types of lures to see if there the fish want an individual lure type/color. Even at night when we are all throwing topwater I have everybody throwing something that makes a different noise and if a pattern is noticed over a night or summer I will have more people throwing those types of lures.
Turning neutral fish and followers into strikes is the same . . . . based of experience and what has worked/failed in the past.
That is what makes it tough to answer because it is based off what I know, think believe or have experienced, or whoever is answering knows, or thinks based off their experience. And 5 people may say the same thing and catch fish/not catch fish, or say different things and catch fish/not catch fish, or any mix in between. And where you fish will effect your answers as well because some lakes "act" differently than others, like Alexander to Minocqua.
And I stand by my statement . . . . it is a tough question, and I am not sure this even came close to answering it.
Corey Meyer
Edited by muskymeyer 2/11/2005 2:12 PM
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| Temper this with the fact that the waters I fish receive, by US standards, light, light pressure. And by US standards, I'm just talking about the lakes you guys all fish and talk about...the Mad Chains, the Tippy's, the Pelicans, the Leechs, the Chips, the Vermillions, on and on. I like reading your reports if for no other reason than you guys are on waters I've never been on, but have seen and heard a ton about. The waters I fish, I'm sure you've all heard about and even maybe fished, Up/Low French, Goergian Bay, Lake Nipissing, Moon River plus a few of the small Kawartha Lakes.
By and large, when I catch a muskie casting, and believe me, some of you guys move more fish on a good morning than I see in a month, you'd have a hard time convincing me that she wouldn't have clubbed a well-placed Suick, Leo, Reefhawg, Bobbie, bootail, bulldawg, TopRaider etc juts as hard. And I still would have caught her.
Some of the catches you guys have on the popular lakes down there are really impressive, if for no other reason than you duped a muskie that sees a lot of baits, and one that may have already been in front of a camera on deck.
I agonize a lot more over trolling baits than casting baits. If there's a muskie on or near that target--- where I do most of my fishing anyways--- 8 times out of 10 I'll at least get her to eat, no matter what I'm throwing. Could be a TopRaider, could be a #*^@ 5" Husky Jerk (we've ALL seen that one play out, bass guy on the deck 16 feet behind you gets the muskie on a jig and leech while you throw "muskies only" lures hahaha).
I boated 7 muskies last year, 51.5x24, 48x21 were top two, the other 5 were all sub-40's (and all 5 were caught on numbers waters, which I rarely, rarely bother to fish). Have a good wknd all. |
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Posts: 691
Location: nationwide | D+D
I agree wholly with the concept that if you find an active fish and run a bait by it . . . . . it's game on. That is why when fishing areas I try not to change lures and keep the one I have on in the water.
Keep your bait in the water as much as possible, that's where the fish are, and fish as often and as long as you can.
Corey Meyer |
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Posts: 2089
| I think TommyV and Cory hit the nail on the head.Some ponds are idiosyncratic regarding color/bait/style and this too comes from experience.Hire a guide or read the message boards.Both great options.Better yet, just fish. Steve
"It worked before, so it might work again"-Mr. Mojo Risin |
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| I just depend on experience with different bodies of water and go with lures and colors that have produced under the current conditions I am facing. Early season I will use smaller baits and late season mostly larger baits. I throw top water, crankbaits, minnow baits, bucktails and spinnerbaits all year round. This year I am going to try soft plastics all year round as well. Gliders, twitch baits, and jerk baits I throw in colder water temperatures, cold front conditions, and when nothing else will get the fish moving.
Clear water I like natural colors and dark water I like bright colors. Black is always a good color under any conditions! |
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| That's actually a huge point re: idiosycracies (we can't spell well in ON, either) . But lets look at an example like this: Fish in the north arm of lake ABC have really shown a clear preference for The X Bait, in the 10 inch size, in hot pink. Locals know it and throw it, and so do the waves of visitors trip after trip all season. Maybe locals cracked this riddle, or maybe visitors were responsible for discovering this new lure.
1. Does the X Bait in 10 inch, hot pink really turn fish using it's own merrit, or is it simply the bait that gets the most time below the surface (or on it)? Could you make an argument that simple Law Of Averages supercedes most factors here?
2. Conditioning. If everybody throws the XBait in 10 inch, hot pink, I'd probably try it as an absolute last resort. Try to dissassociate what I'm doing from what everyone else is. But I'd definitely pick one up on the way and have it sharp and ready 
Lets say there's a 49 on a spot, any kind of spot. (Not to reinvent he wheel, but we all know that your first issue is picking the bait that will work that spot the best. Would I troll a 28' deep cisco ball on GBay in December with a bootail spinnerbait in the prop wash? No. I'd use a bait that fished that depth. Could be a Believer or Jake on wire, a flatlined Lung Locker or Plow, whatever. ) You'd have a hard time convincing me that if that 49 was on rocks in less than 12 feet of water I couldn't get her on a Depthraider, A weighted jerkbait or any number of other baits...and probably within the first two casts, probably within the first six tuns of the handle. My bait could be wood, plastic, black, firetiger, hot pink, 8 inch, 10 inch, 12 inch. Of all the fish I've caught casting, the overwhelming majoriy, like 9 out of every ten, hit quick. If they're there, they'll hit. Jody Mills' article this month on GBay really drove this home, speaking specificaly of GBay, which is my home water: the biters bite when they're there. Once again, a lot of this might seem like it's coming out of left field, as I do NOT put a lot of fish in the boat every year, and I fish trophy water 99.9% of the time.
For the water I fish, my theory has always been--and it gets proven time and time again by all the incedental catches that dot the internet every season--as long as you're getting a bait close to a fish that's predisposed to eating to any degree, they'll take a run at just about anything. If I find fish that are "castable" they're there to eat, and usually not real shy about it. Pearson's always talking about good hooking baits, and this is huge to. As long as you can covert that strike and the bait will run where it's needed, the rest will fall into place. Could be the 9" Suick in perch, the 8" Bobbie in jailbird, maybe even a hair bait.
I can see how all of this would sound like total nonsense to guys fishing systems with a different dynamic. Two of my regular fishin buddies won the Matchfishing tourney on this board for 2004, and they fish the numbers lakes that get beatten hard all season. They're real big into precision timing and they move around a lot, and are real innovators when it comes to the baits they throw, how and what they do with/to them. Where I fish, I clip on he same old baits and I punch the clock.
Screw it, I'm going to jig up a few lake trout!! |
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