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Posts: 260
Location: Kentucky | I've been thinking latley, after taking part in the Vermilion guide post that got yanked, how different the musky fishing brotherhood has changed since I started chasing the top freshwater predator back in the mid 70's. Most good, & some bad.
I remember the countless trips to Eagle Sport to talk w/ George and the guides to see how the action was. The countless fishless days on Pelican, 3 lakes Chain, Turtle Flambeau Flowage and others,only to stop for a cold one on the way back and shoot the breeze with all the other musky hunters and guides, and feeling good after I left. Never any bitching, one uping, or bragging. People respected each other! Altough I will say, there was always plenty of BS flying around, and most times it was welcome! We were a rare breed back then, and to some extent, still are! IT WAS THEN, AND SHOULD BE NOW, ABOUT HAVING FUN!
Enter the new musky fishing world! Trade shows--> Guides bashing other guides under their breath. Retailers undercutting other retailers for the almighty sale. Lure manufactures slamming other manufactures..... and on & on. The INTERNET---> A place for shamless selfpromotion, buy this, buy that, the next "for sure" bait, the hottest this and the hottest that! MESSAGE BOARDS---> Normally a good place to listen and learn, and like the taverns of old, plenty of BS flying around. But this medium too is starting to have some problems. Alot of slamming, pointing people in the wrong direction for the almighty buck! One uping and on and on. Now I realize that neither this post , nor anything else I say or do is going to change today's musky fisherpeople, but if we could all just remember that its not about the biggest fish, the hottest lure, the stongest line, the $500.00 reel or anything else that we think we need, it's all about the brotherhood, and HAVING FUN!!!We all share somthing very special, lets not forget it!!
Bret Ehret
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Posts: 827
Location: Minneapolis,Minnesota | ?????
I thought it was about catching a stupid fish?
Didn't know we were a band of brothers?
You are talking about a very small group, I don't think the majority of Musky people are what you are saying.
And yes those things did go on in the 70's, you just didn't know it. You think fisherman bragging or one upping is something new?
It was a nice picture you painted though....
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Posts: 32953
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I disagree so strongly I probably shoudn't answer this post. Anyone who thinks the 'message boards' create animosity should attend a MuskieFIRST outing, stop in at the booth at one of the dreaded shows, or ask a question of folks like Norm, Mark, Mike, Extreme One, Trophie Muskie, Howie, Beav, and many others who selflessly share personally obtained information with all who would ask. I've been in the business for near 30 years, and guides ALWAYS have sworn at each other under and above their breath. Retailers have ALWAYS tried to ply their wares, that's the business, and by the way, the way I like to see things in the free world. Self promotion?? If that bothers anyone they might as well duck the business, the sport, and the entire deal by staying off the boards, the water, out of the stores, and away from other anglers. It's ALWAYS been a testosterone laden sport, and there's always been a fair amount of bickering.
All in all, the Muskie community is generous and kind to a fault, friendly beyond most expectations, and willing to share. Those who are and those who are not simply reflect the norms of society when discussing a community populated in the tens of thousands like MuskieFIRST. Folks will be folks, and one can't expect any more than that.
It could be a case of the glass being half empty of half full. I subscribe to the glass being half full, and only because it was filled and then shared down to half with friends by a Muskie fisherman. |
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Posts: 1764
Location: Ogden, Ut | I'm just half way to my next glass... 
K. |
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Posts: 20269
Location: oswego, il | I think the internet has done way more good things then bad things. I have learned a ton by being a part of it and met a great many good people. So have a alot of people who frequent the boards. It has been good for every aspect of the musky fishing industry.
I will say though, it can bring on controversial topics from time to time and bring them to people who would not normally hear abou it. I say so what. We live in a new time, an informational society. The good well outweights any bad. |
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Posts: 1291
Location: Stevens Point, Wi. | My glass is always empty, the self promotion keeps me to broke to afford to fill it up. Got to agree with Mr. Worrall on this one. The old days were far more deceitful than Bret's picture painted. Just ask some of the old guides some of the extremes they went ot to protect their secrets. True genius's. |
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Posts: 4266
| This could be one of the countless new TV shows.
Let's lock up 10 muskie fishermen for the winter and let the last guy alive keep all of the tackle.
I love the "shameless self promotion".
How else am I, a basement baitmaker, supposed to let you guys know that I'm making a new lure and let you look at it, buy it and critique it?
This site ia a magazine subscription that you don't pay for, and you get more out of it when you know where to look.
Welcome to the fishing industry.
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Posts: 71
Location: Lake St. Clair | I do think there is a attitude in the World in general. Look at sports, how many showboat in the end zone. It is a society that has been created. But there are others that are willing to do anything to help where they can. Yes there are some bad apples and some egos that want to be stroked.
I will do what I can to help. Just an example this fall. A couple of guys came to LSC for some fall muskies and the water was mud. I waited till they came in and spoke with them and a found out their fishing was fishing. I asked him if he seen any other boats that day and he said "no". I said that is why you did not see any other boats.
The water was very dirty and I asked him to follow me to another location the next day. He agreed and he and his partner landed a 49". That was there only fish that day but largest to date. I told him he just drove 5 or 6 hrs and I hate to see people waste their time.
I think this was the right thing to do. I, in no way trying to pump my chest but just to show an example of what some still do to help others.
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Posts: 152
| Nothing wrong with a person promoting their product or a guide promoting himself. If you wait for someone else to do it, you might be waiting a long time. There is a difference between getting ahead on ones own merrit and cutting someone, or someones product down to get ahead. I compete with the fish, not another person. I'm like Beaver, I make some lures, but they are no better than others and on any given day they might not be as good. I am working on one that I would never turn loose to the public becouse it would devistate the Muskies. Well, I might sell a few! See, there goes that self promotion thing. By the way, today is my birthday so all you brothers need to send me free stuff. Later |
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Posts: 938
Location: NeverNever Lake | Bret, I'll have to go along with Steve. Get your butt to the Cave Run Outing this Spring and I'll bet you a bottle of Prozac you'll forget about all the negative bullcrap associated with the miserable few who want to ruin things for others. I was there 2 yrs ago and made some FRIENDS FOR LIFE..............PRICELESS!
All or nothing thinking can be downright dangerous to your health and it has a lasting effect on others. One must learn to live in the many shades of grey and try to avoid the Black and White.......
Why is it that those who carry a positive mental attitude catch the most and/or biggest fish reguardless of what bait they're swingin?
We only keep what we have by giving it away............. |
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Posts: 9
| i have posted two items on this site and the info i get is unreal. the help some of these people give is breath taking. i have always learned to tell people you are fishing what your not, 6' deep no 25'. minnow, no spikes, whatever the case maybe i believe it is the person. some guides tell me one thing some another, what is right? LET THE FISH DECIDE. go out and find out for yourself
i hope this makes some sense to some one |
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| This is America and Free Speech is one of our most important rights. This sight is a friendly family of musky hunters that sometimes fight and call each other names. If anything gets out of hand, Mr. Slamr is on it like white on rice! 
The great thing about musky fishing is that there are no real subject matter experts, but there are many true masters and great sticks who offer their help at the drop a hat. I have meet some of the greatest people from all over the world thanks to these sites.
Personally, I don't like the commercialism and shameless self promotion in today's musky world. But it is a small price to pay for the cutting edge technology, tools, lures, and techniques we apply to our sport.
Just fish better! |
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Posts: 3242
Location: Racine, Wi | The reason I started musky fishing when I was younger was all of the mysique around the fish. Seeing the fish in the water, in the baitshops, and bars. Hearing the people talk about fish that they caught, lost, or saw. I to this day, still fish due to the old time beliefs, and can get a great dose of the nestalgia (sp?) everytime I go into some of the backwoods bars. I SIMPLY LOVE THAT ASPECT of this sport.
The thing is, as SW said, there are alot of guys on these boards that we learn from every day. I know that I have learned lots, not only from the vetrans, but the novices as well. There are times (especially when there is several feet of snow) when people need to stay occupied, and may start conflicts. Oh well. Some of it can be quite humerous. Take it with a grain of salt. There are some very cool people on this board, and I will continue to hang out here. I have found some cool baits as well, that many still don't know about if it weren't for the promotion that goes on here. It's a great advertising media for the smaller guys that don't make millions of baits.
As for the outings, I have met many lifelong friends through these outings, and had a great time. Take opening day last year. A group of guys from the board, all meeting up at a launch, that some may, or may not have been to. Info was shared, and fish were caught. There are a lot more good guys hanging on these boards, than bad apples, and all ya need to do, just like in the northwoods bars, is laugh at the BS, and take in all that you can. Ya never know what you will learn.
One last thing, I just watched a video of some old timers, and just as the secrets were back then, they still exist. They blacked out in the video, the way they rigged their suckers for casting. Oh well, that's too much effort for me anyway, but it was cool to see them getting slimed on their Northwoods Lake X.
Open Water SOOOOON!!!!! |
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Posts: 1996
Location: Pelican Lake/Three Lakes Chain | There is one statement you made in your post that I couldn't agree more with; "my how musky times have changed."
I think they have changed immensely, but almost entirely for the good. What a great time for anyone just getting into the sport. When I started this goofy game there were no sources of information on these fish. There was no MH magazine, no MuskieFIRST, heck there wasn't even an internet. The only source of musky information was an occasional article in the In-Fisherman. Back then you learned by trial and error, and believe me there was a whole boat load of errors.
Fast forward twenty years. A newbie to the sport wants to catch a musky. He or she has a plethera of musky info at their fingertips. Magazines, internet sites like this one, DVD's, books, or an email to any guide that fishes their intended waters. There is more good information being shared in todays world than you ever would have dreamed of back in the old days. It probably makes some of the old timers cringe when they realize all the info that is being exchanged for absolutely no gain.
Todays angler can short cut their learning curve by several years by using the information many dole out freely on this site alone, and the exerienced angler will pick up several more fish a year by paying attention to tips from these boards.
What a great era of musky fishing we are living in today!!!
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Posts: 2089
| And due to education and catch and release, the fishing has never been better.Many good points above.I just wanna fish.Better. Steve |
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Posts: 1310
Location: Washington, PA | I wouldn't know about how the "old" times were. I strarted muskie fishing on my own. The way that I shortened the learning curve, was by the internet. It gave me the opportunity to fish with muskie sticks around the country, which I've learned a tremendous amount from. It is just fishing. But at the same time, fishing has lead me to some of the greatest memories, and I've also made a lot of great friends that I assume will be friends for life. In my opinion, the good greatly outways the bad. Overall, it's a great sport, with great people involved in it.
MuskieFirst Pro Staff
Edited by tomyv 1/28/2005 9:20 AM
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Posts: 1936
Location: Eau Claire, WI | Have to agree with Norm and Jonesi and Worrall on this one. I've been at this for well over 25 years and had there been an artery of information like there is today, I know my learning curve would have cut way down. There was a ton of secrets back then, and in some respects there still is today. But the sharing of good information today is far superior to years past.
As one of the moderators of this board and as an active member on the Ice board ( I do this as a volunteer to help out Steve, Zach, and Jason when he was still active) I can tell you first hand that it is the intent of all OutdoorFIRST message boards to be run in the most professional manner possible. For Steve and Zach as owners and Slamr as an employee there is a business and livelyhood at stake. For the sponsors who pay for advertising space, we owe it to them to do our level best to be as professional as we can be when managing the site while still keeping it fun and open-minded to the members. After all... you folks are the ones who have made MuskieFIRST the go to place for on-line musky information. Your patronage is greatly appreciated and respected.
I choose to stay pretty much behind the scenes (due to other time commitments and somewhat personal choice) I add input to posts when I feel I have something of value to contribute, and once in a while I poke a little fun at one of my buddies. But the very fact that boards like this one and Musky Hunter, and 101 are even available is a huge contribution to the betterment of this sport and fishing in general.
Has fishing changed...darn right, but IMHO most of the change is for the better.
Guess with all the recent discussion about pulled posts etc. I figured I would throw my .02 cents in. If and when I do edit or pull a post I most always contact the sender by PM or email and explain why. Ever have any questions feel free to send me a private message on this board or the Ice board and I'll reply as promptly as I can.
Muskie Fishing is alive and well and in many ways better than it was 27 years ago when I started to chase those long green fish.
Mark
Mark Hintz Outdoors
Musky Adventures
www.markhintz.com
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Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | The fish are definately getting smarter!.................................
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Posts: 305
Location: Illinois | When you first start fishing skis, the lore, the bs-ing, the competitiveness, all seem cool. Then you go in a phase that it gets under your skin. Finally, you realize it doesn't matter either way. Maybe the sport hasn't changed, but you're perspective has.and why are the woman on the weather channel always pregnant? |
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Posts: 1046
| The worse change is the more and more people,and the more and more money $$$$$$$$ everything gets. I can see to adjust to the cost of living, but baits for 30.00 to 300.00 is #$%^&*&^%$! Pretty soon we will be labled like trout fishers(no offense) at know expense! That is the change I don`t really like!
no offense @ know expense! hehehehehehe! |
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| When I was a kid and lived in Sayner I started fishing for muskies about 1959. Through my dad I got to know many of the "old" guides and some pretty good muskie fanatics. Most of them treated the whole chase as a big secret and wouldn't tell anybody anything. I hung around Pat's Bait on Plum Lake and tried to learn as much as I could. We'd find out where the guides had boats stashed on lakes around Sayner and St. Germain and we'd borrow them and hope we wouldn't get caught. Sometimes if we did get caught we had to pay our dues by cleaning fish or even painting boats at the end of the season. I'd spend hours hiding along shore watching where the really expert guys were hitting a lake to find where their hotspots were.
Hey, I was a desperate 12 year old that wanted that huge musky as bad as anyone, was thirsty for knowledge but there were no magazines, TV shows, books, musky shows, or many people that wanted to share what they knew. My Dad mostly row trolled and we were a team but I wanted more.
In the past 15 years I think people have become a lot more open to sharing their knowledge with others, sure they still have some secrets but the sport has really opened up. As an example, I went to a swap meet a few years ago after the Milwaukee show, didn't know a soul, but had the time of my life and met some great people.
After a day on the water there's nothing better than to swap stories over a cool one.
I've been doing this for 45 years and am still learning.
Buddy |
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Posts: 1916
Location: Greenfield, WI | I have to agree with Steve Worrall as well. Being nearly eligible to be considered an old fart (no snide comments from the cheap seats guys!) I have been whole heartedly involved with the pursuit of muskies since the 80's. In general the characters that also chase these criters are some of the nicest people you can meet. Everyone has their quirks, if you focus on the negatives, that is all you will see. Don't sweat the unimportant things, life is to short!
As far as the glass being half full or half empty, I spill so much that I use a sippy cup with a lid, so mine is always full!!!
Edited by Steve Van Lieshout 1/29/2005 10:08 AM
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Posts: 1185
Location: Wishin I Was Fishin' | Nice tongue job GMG.
I too have met a bunch of great friends on this site. It is by far the best musky internet community yet. You think things here are bad? You must not have been on Musky Hunter or Muskie Central when they were the "places to be" yikes it was rough!
Keep up the great work Steve, Andrew, Zach and all the awesome MFer's. |
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Posts: 267
Location: Lake City,Pa. | Well I don't usally answer posts like this, but here is my 2 cents. Being fairly new to the sport (5 years now) . We started out not knowing nothing about this great sport in which we fell in love with. We did start out by typing "Musky" on the web and the imformation was unbelieveable! Well where do you start, clicking here and there until you reach MuskieFirst. We just have three words, "This site rocks". Yes you will have bashing etc. etc. etc. but there is a great bunch of people on this site and this is the only site where you will get staight up and forward answers. We have attended MuskieFirst outings (outings which you should try to attend) and you will meet a great bunch of people. We have become better MuskyHunters because of this site. |
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Location: Athens, Ohio | This is the best pick-up-bar on the Internet for muskie fishermen. I only hope some day I'll be able to give back as much as I've taken in learning, baits, and time on the water. m |
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Posts: 621
Location: Seymour, WI | I've always been impressed with the amount of musky information people are willing to share. I'm more of quiet person so I sometimes feel weird asking other fishermen for info. But there have been several very good fisherman that I've met on the internet boards. The amount info they were willing to share really helps someone like me who loves to fish muskies but only gets out fishing about every other week. One of the other things I noticed is that the more confident people are in their own fishing abilities, the more willing they are to share info. Through the boards I've learned lots of new techniques, new baits, new lakes to fish and how narrow down bait choices and fishing areas for individual lakes. Sites like this one are impressive and a great source of info.
Grass |
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Posts: 244
Location: Mallard Island Lake Vermilion MN | Times are what you make them for sure.
Mama told me when I was young
"Come sit beside me, My only son.
and Listen closely, To what I say.
and If you do this, it will help you some sunny day.
Ah yeah!
Take your time... don't live to fast.
Troubles will come and they will pass.
Go find that special something that works for you.
And don't forget son, there is someone up above"
"And be a simple kind of man,
Be something you love and understand.
Be a simple kind of man.
Won't you do this for me son.
If you can?"
Forget your lust for a richmans gold,
All you need is in your soul,
And you can do this if you try.
All that I want for you my son,
Is to be satisfied."
Boy don't you worry...you'll find yourself.
Follow your heart and nothing else.
And you can do this if you try.
All that I want for you my son,
Is to be Satisfied."
And Be a Simple Man...
Says it all for me in just about all I do...
Some people can dig it, other don't.
It's all good.
Tommy
Edited by KidDerringer 2/1/2005 1:50 PM
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