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Posts: 4
| I was reading a article today about bucktails, and the author stated if you change the blade you change the pitch. If he is referring to the sound.
Can anyone tell me which blades produce which sound?
Everything I have read to this point talks about vibration, willows give off less vibration and fluted give off the most. Muskies are mainly sight feeders, with vibration being a close second, fish feel vibration and hear sounds, if bucktail blades give off a sound.
Could a certain sound have a negitive affect on a fish? |
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Posts: 132
Location: Kawarthas, Ontario | All blades give off a sound, which can be broken down into frequency, and pitch. The faster the blade spins, the higher the pitch. Different blade types and sizes can give off the same pitch, but will have a totally different frequency. Blades also provide "lift" as well as sound.
Generally, a large willowleaf produces a slow spinning, and low pitch "thump". A fast spinning colorado produces a high pitched "whine". You have to experiment to determine what the fish want. Sometimes they will show a remarkable preference for a particular frequency and pitch combination, just as they do for colour.
Steve Wickens
STRIKE ZONE Muskie Charters |
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Posts: 172
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio | Hey, I'm a musician for a living so I know a little bit about this, not to correct anyone, it's just my thing. Sound has two different measurements. Frequency and Amplitude. Frequency is how often a waveform happens per second. That is right to left on an oscilloscope. So frequency and pitch are the same. Amplitude is how loud it is. Top to bottom on an oscilloscope. Frequency determines the exact pitch. So if it's at 440 mhz then its a concert A. What does this mean to blade size? Well, whatever blade it is, if they are rotating at the same speed, if they have the same frequency, they have the same pitch. It's the same note no matter if it's a bucktail or a cello. If one blade is bigger, (Colorado vs. Willow), the Colorado will have more amplitude. That would be suitable for darker water, just a louder thump. Make sense? Just tryin' to help on a very complex subject. Good fishin', Tyler
Edited by Tyler Campbell 12/24/2003 1:49 PM
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Location: Valentine, NE USA | Tyler-
To carry on your analogy...
If you play the same note on two different strings (1 hi, 1 low), don't the sound waves from the thicker dia. string carry farther, since it's a lower tone...yet the same note?
I guess what I'm trying to get at is that a thicker (.040 vs .026) blades' sound will travel farther through the water, without neccessarily being any louder than the same size blade in a thinner diameter.
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Posts: 172
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio | Hey Snowcrest, Interesting point. If you play middle C on different strings, the difference in what you hear is a product of the overtone series. The overtone series is a result of the string vibrating at different nodal points across it's length. On different strings other nodes are more prononced, creating either a thicker of thinner sound. This could affect the amplitude, but only slightly. So as far as blades go, I guess I'm note quite sure about the physics of it. I would have to guess that the thickness of the blade would affect the overtone series as well, so probably the amplitude, but only slightly. I'm thinking that for it to carry farther, amplitude has to increase, blade thickness as a result not having as much of an impact. Of course wire thickness of the blade arm, more specifically on spinnerbaits, is definitely going to have an impact. Thinner wire producing a more diverse, thicker overtone series than a heavier one, as it would really free up the blade to do it's thing. It's one of those things you can feel in your hands, as the blade thumps, and you can just tell if the wire is right or not. This is a cool thread. Merry x-mas everyone, Tyler
Edited by Tyler Campbell 12/24/2003 9:37 PM
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Posts: 4
| OK Wait,
Your saying the bigger the blade the louder it is ? This makes sense.
The faster a blade spins the higher the pitch? OK I buy this.
Which blades spin at what speed? Willow/fast french/med colorado/slow????
What effect does a higher pitch have on a fish vs. a lower pitch????
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Posts: 32935
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I recorded about twenty different bucktails in four channel stereo using crystal and pressure microphones. I was amazed at the racket! The recordings were done in a pool many years ago, but were pretty amazing. A Colorado blade sounds like someone smacking a soup spoon on the kitchen table, hard. The loudest blade grouping, bar none, was a number 5 to number 7 Indiana. The Colorado was not quite as loud, but was close. The French blade was hard to hear, as was the willow leaf, but both made a hissing/whirring noise that was interesting. The big fluted blades were middle of the road, and didn't create the thump I expected. The clevis had alot to do with what the blade did, as did the first component the clevis contacts. |
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Location: oswego, il | Steve, those are intersting observations. I do have some questions though. Were the fluted blades indiana blades and if so how could the noise be different? I also could have sworn the french blade made the most noise. If you don't mind expanding on the bead/bearing clevise stuff, I would be grateful.;-) It's interesting stuff. |
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Posts: 32935
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Fluted Indiana and Colorado blades were MUCH more subdued that the non fluted, because of the speed of rotation and the way they ride on the clevis. The rumor that willow leaf blades are loud is not true at all. They are usually thinner, rotate MUCH closer to the shaft with a tighter signature. Much of the sound a blade makes is caused by the rotation and movement on the wire and in the clevis. The best I found to really make an Indiana blade thump is the one Mepps uses. Generally speaking, the smaller the clevis in relationship to the blade, the quieter the lure; I am pretty sure because of the blade not being able to rock freely on the clevis. The noise made is REALLY loud. Also, I found that a sleeve of aluminum against the clevis made a sound very similar to the one I searched for that my original Turd made. I use a rivet against the clevis, wide side to the metal. Crimp it to the wire so the clevis cuts against the aluminum. |
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Location: oswego, il | Steve, thanks for the info. Basically the more friction you can create with the movement the better as long as it does not hamper the spin. I have sum sperimentin' to do. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | ToddM, I am going to do another tape very soon. Drop me an email and we will scheme up some ideas for creating signatures in spinner style baits to record. |
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Posts: 172
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio | Hey Steve, Don't leave me out of this one, I'd like to hear some of those recordings. Happy Holidays, Tyler |
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Posts: 172
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio | Oh man, I just tuned this one, and I think I'm right on the money. You guys gotta check it out. Tyler
Attachments
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 Bucktail #2.mp3 (78KB - 568 downloads)
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Posts: 20263
Location: oswego, il | Tyler, that sounded like two whales mating.lol
Steve, no problem, I would like to try some stuff for that. |
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Posts: 172
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio | I just had to go there Todd. Tyler
Edited by Tyler Campbell 1/3/2004 12:12 AM
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Location: oswego, il | Tyler, now if you could just turn that into a musky call, you would have it made.;-) |
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| http://www.crankenstein.net/content/articles/spinnerbaitharmonics1.... |
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Posts: 4
| WOW,
Thanks alot that is loaded with info.
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Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Now THAT was funny!!!
Heck...I was expecting to hear a sound of a blade turning and instead, I got what sounded like a whale farting.. 
I have not laughed this hard in a long time!!
Steve
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| Resurrecting this one to ask a few questions.
Do the results from Mr. Worrall's underwater recordings apply to spinnerbaits also?
and, as a question in another post asks ....is a spinnerbait with the SAME blade as a bucktail "noisier" or quieter?
Also,are there any updates from the original study?
Great stuff! |
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Posts: 152
| How about some recordings of cranks with and without rattles. Later |
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Posts: 32935
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | A spinnerbait can be WAY louder than a bucktail, for obvious reasons. The blades are rotating on a swivel, rocking back and forth as they spin freely. If you have two different blades on the bait, you are creating a signature that is a combination of the two. |
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| Steve
I know that the spinnerbait can be way louder than a bucktail.
But, in your own words, "Why?"
It it because it is up and away from the main body of the bait allowing it to move (When I say move I'm talking about the vibration of the whole upper arm assembly here) more freely? Or is it bacause the blade is farther away from the main body/weight of the lure?
Would changing the length of the upper arms change the sound of a spinnerbait. I would surmise that the shorter the arm on a spinnerbait the closer it would be to the main mass of the bait and subsequenlty, the deeper the sound 'should' be.
Scott
Edited by theedz155 3/14/2005 5:48 AM
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| Interesting stuff...I have a single bladed spinnerbait where I replaced the fluted Indiana blade with a .040 #7 Indiana (non-fluted) and it now pounds like a jackhammer.
I would not have thought that a seemingly minor change would make that much of a difference but it does.
I also have one that has a single #10 magnum Colorado...it also pounds on a retrieve or a rip.
Both move fish well.
( With this one I use only an abu 7000 ; using any other reel for this is torture.) |
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