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Posts: 26
Location: Carol Stream, IL | I am asking this question because I know guys that don't want the guide to fish when they go out. I am very curious to hear from the guides on this site if you have ever had clients that didn't want you to fish and how you handled it.
For the record, I like to hire guides and I think they should fish because I have caught fish as a direct result of the guide having a bait in the water (i.e. the guide finds the hot lure or raises a fish that I return and catch later). Although I will also admit that is disheartening on those few occasions when the guide catches a fish and you don't.
Luke S |
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| I hired Dick Pearson once to guide me on Lake of the Woods. Obviously I wanted to learn a couple of new spots, but more than that I wanted to see how he fished, and compare it to my own style. I wanted to see how he controled the boat, prepared his boat, worked the baits, covered a structure, etc. Mr. Pearson fishing was the most important part of my day, way more important than the 25" monster I caught. I think in muskie fishing it is important for the guide to fish. In a couple of years when I am guiding I plan to fish, howevever if I have got a big fished pegged than the clients will be casting, and I will work the boat control. When searching for fish I will be casting.
MuskyDan |
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Posts: 1996
Location: Pelican Lake/Three Lakes Chain | I have gone either way when guiding, either casting or acting as a non-fishing coach. I personally feel that you are shorting yourself as a paying client, if you do not have the guide fish. You spent your money to learn about musky fishing from your guide and by not letting him teach by example I think you are short changing yourself.
I will guarantee you that by watching how a guide fishes you will learn alot about different presentations throughout the day. Watching his retrieve techniques gives you something to mimic on future trips. Instead of him telling you how to retrieve a certain bait he can show you and in turn you can ask the why's of his techniques.
Another bonus to having your guide fish, is to shorten the time it takes to pattern the fish. The more different baits that are in the water the faster you can figure out what they want. When guiding and the fish start to move on the bait I am throwing, I immediately give it up to one of my clients.
I always guide out of the back of the boat. I think any guide that fishes needs to be in the back of the boat. That gives the clients first crack at any fish. Any fish caught out of the back of the boat by the guide was already passed by your baits, so his catching has in no way negatively affected your personal results for the day. If we get a hot fish going I immediately put my rod away. The client gets every reasonable crack at putting that fish in the boat.
You need to remember that nearly all guides out there would much rather see a fish on the end of your line than his. That is how we get rebooked for future trips. Our fishing is generally done to locate patterns quicker and to demonstrate various presentation techniques. |
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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | Good points. Do all guides fish out of the back of the boat? I know on some waters it is almost imperitave for the guide to stay near the front to see obstructions etc. in the water ahead. Does Minnkota make a cordless pedal for the power drive motors? i know they have the hand held co-pilot, but does that come in a pedal too? |
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Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | I'm torn in half on this one. I guide for great lakes trout and salmon and do have clients ask me to demonstrate techniques and "how to's" with flies and fly rods, but I usually demonstrate in water that has a low probability of catching anything. I think Musky/Walleye guides could probally do the same.
I too have hired a guide for unknown and possibly hazzardous waters like flowages, and the guides fished, but we were after Bass and Walleye. I dont think the Musky guide should be casting for fish because Musky's are far less prevallent than Bass or Walleye...odds are if you find one Walleye, you'll find more..you cant say that with Musky. The one fish he catches may be the only one you see all day..then you just paid for him to catch a fish. If you have questions on how baits run or techniques, have him show in dead water. |
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Posts: 1996
Location: Pelican Lake/Three Lakes Chain | Jason,
I know MinnKota use to have a cordless TM. I owned one when they first came out. They were not extremely reliable however. I opted now to run the cord for my pedal down the side of the boat out of the way on the standard Power Drive models. |
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Posts: 1335
Location: Chicago, Beverly | I have mixed feelings on this one. I hired Chad Cain as a guide down at Kincaid a couple years back, it was only me and him in the boat, so yeah, the guide fishing wasn't a problem. But when I have hired a guide in Wisconsin it has been me and one of my brothers, so in that situation only the two of us were casting. Trolling would be a whole different ball-game also. The more lines in the water the better. I will say this about the guy I hired in wisconsin, he used oars to position his boat so him casting wasn't all that possible. |
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Posts: 32921
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Totally up to the client. Some want me to fish, some do not. I offer to hand the rod off if I stick a fish, so many feel it is just another presentation. I do try to use a bait totally different from my client's, in an attempt to catch a fish they might not get to go. |
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| Casting yes, trolling no! |
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Posts: 1516
| I have hired a guide several times and they fished each time. No problem. I was a little put off by the way the one ran to the front of the boat everytime we came to a new spot. I don't remember what his trolling motor set-up was so that may have had something to do with it. One thing I want is for the guide to tell me what I'm doing wrong so I can correct it. |
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Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | HUH??? Man enough not to be outfished by a guide? Last time I checked, (A) the guide was hired because he has the expireince, skills and knowledge so by hiring a guide, you'd think he could outfish you and give you advice and (B) when did spending 300.00 to 400.00 by hiring a guide become a competition?
By hiring a guide you're not admitting anything other than you have a desire to learn something(s) new. |
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Location: Illinois-Indiana | When we hit the water I let the guys decide if they both want to fish from the front or if one wants the front and one gets back. I will tell you this I see more and more that one will fish the front and one will fish the back. If we are fishing with suckers I get them going with the hot baits and tell them what kind of structure we are fishing and where to cast and I will set up the sucker rods and get them in the water. I would say that 99% of the time they ask me why I'm not fishing and TELL me to fish. I stand there and watch them for a while and tell them if they are doing something wrong or help them in any way I can.
I will demonstrate a figure eight for them and also show them the PROPER way to work the bait that they are throwing. I will pick up a rod and stand in the middle of the boat and cast for a while this way I can watch both of them and make sure they are doing everything right, this will only help them put a fish in the boat. I have to tell you this though, I have been out with two guys and fished only a fraction of the time on the trip and sad to say that I caught two fish and they caught none. The one guy had two fish on and lost them both so that kind of SUCKED, but the other could only manage a few follows and he was the guy fishing from the front. I had them fishing with the top producing baits at that time and I was trying to use stuff that sat in the box for an eternity rusting away.
Like it was said if you don't have your guide fishing, you will not be able to pick up any new techniques on how to fish, what's that saying, A PICTURE IS WORTH A THOUSAND WORDS. A guide can teach you a ton of information if you LET them, so go out with a positive attitude and ask a ton of questions, remember that is what you are paying them for.
I want to say one important thing, some guides are not set up to fish from anywhere in the boat so they are forced to fish from the front.
They can still fish in front and control the boat but YOU should have first water and he or she should take second water. I would NEVER go out with a guide who didn't let me take first shot at a fish.
Edited by Musky Fever 2/23/2004 2:49 PM
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Posts: 1310
Location: Washington, PA | I think the guide should fish. The way I look at it, when I'm fishing, I get pumped when my partner puts one in the boat. Just another presentation, not to mention that you can see how they may work a lure differantly than you, etc. If we were trolling, then that would be differant. But I don't troll much to begin with. |
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Posts: 477
Location: Iowa | I have only fished with one guide, and am happy that fished with me. He had me throwing the baits that were hot for each particular area while he threw other baits to see if they wanted something different. If he would get a couple follows, I would have that bait on. We saw a few fish that day, and most of them were the ones he brought up at the back of the boat. I landed a mid 30 inch that followed him up. He gave me the bait, and was very confident the fish would come back because of how territorial it acted. That is something I probably wouldn't have picked up just by seeing the fish. A few casts later, I had it on. You can learn a lot just by watching the guide, and you can work more than one pattern. I would never go out and expect the guide to just stand there and watch all day. |
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Posts: 260
Location: Kentucky | Heck yes let the guide fish!! One can learn alot from a guide! I would rather have a guide catch a fish vs. no one catching a fish! Any fish caught brings the whole experience up to the next level! What would you rather have, 8 hours of only you casting and not catching a fish, or 8 hours of fishing and netting a pig for the guide? The more lures in the water, the better chance of seeing/catching a fish!!
My 2 cents. |
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Posts: 5874
| Sure the guide fishes, especially if it's just me and him. Even more especially if it's Dorazio. I couldn't imagine how much more crap I would have to endure if he had ALL day to sit on his shady side and think of more things to harrass me!
Seriously, I don't do a lot of guide deals. When I do, it's more of a friendly outing, and a chance to work a new bait, to learn new water, structure, presentation, etc. I want him to fish with me, and I expect him to challenge me. Makes me a better angler, and makes for a fun day on the water. |
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Posts: 1430
Location: Eastern Ontario | The subject has come up but a handfull of times in the 4 years I have guided and everytime it was the client asking (telling) me he wanted me to fish. I do what the client wants it's that simple, no mater what it is he's forking the bill so it is his call. If I was asked not to fish I would sit down and watch that's all. I am a very easy going guide, I don't teach unless I am asked, I basicly put the clients on fish and give them lures that will catch the fish and net their fish. Some of us are not all hung up on numbers and force our clients to do the most productive method at any given time, we just do what the client wants and the main thing is having fun. I have clients who want to start late others want to quit early some want to cast others troll, it's all good. One thing I learned in business in the early years is that the customer is always right. |
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Posts: 5193
| If the anglers work lures correctly,than the rule is the guide does not fish.When guiding beginers the rule is to fish to teach.Those are the rules so live by them,and you guides have a wonderful season.0723 |
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Posts: 2691
Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin | Lots of good points said by all.
I will start out working with my clients to make sure they are working the baits, rods, structure, ect properly. Once I am sure they are ok with everything I will work a rod from the back.
I run a Pinpoint trolling motor with a extention. This allows me to work my boat along structure and put the clients casts in the sweet spots.
I also like to guide from the back of the boat. This lets me watch my clients and gives them first and second shot at the fish. I usually will toss baits from the back when I get a chance.
Last year I stuck a fish on a figure 8 while demonstraiting a cast from start to finish for a client with a crank bait. I noticed the fish comming up after the crank bait as it neared the boat, worked the bait into the first turn, increased the speed and set the hook as I handed the rod off to the client.
That was the only fish we boated that afternoon. My clients raised other fish but no takers. They both joked about my only cast of the afternoon.
My point is: Guides can teach while they fish. Guides that fish from the back or middle will get you more action. Guides that fish from the front will get fish going but I like to put the clients on these fish.
I think the first cast into a spot is the best chance to score a active fish. The second or third cast will be harder to score the fish. That is why I like to be the last one to work the fish. If I can get that fish to eat I can make it a learning example and have a client get slimed.
Teaching is what we are doing. If we are fishing you can pick up things as we fish. Like someone said in a above post: a picture is worth a thousand words.
Talk to your guides !!!
We would like to see you(the clients) catch fish. I fish when a client takes a break. While I cast, I talk to them and show them some tips they can try when they get back at it. Always teaching.
Long story short....Guides should fish.
Its up to the clients. To fish or not to fish. That is the question.
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Posts: 3
Location: Ottawa Ontario Canada | As a Muskie guide i am there for my customer . I always give my clients the option if they want me to fish or not either way that is ok by me .The way i approach it is to ask out right at the beginning of the day.
If a client says he would like me to fish when they are casting i ask if i get a hook up who will i hand the rod off to . If the customers ask me not to fish that is ok too this gives me more time to coach them through there day . It does not matter if you are selling tires or a day on the water . You have to put your customers first thats what matters most .
Tight Lines & Sharp Hooks
Kert Lavigne
Muskie Stalker Fishing Charters
Ottawa Canada
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Posts: 376
Location: Lake Vermilion Tower, MN | Hi All,
If I have just one client in the boat, I'll fish and I always fish in the back of the boat. With two clients I rarely fish, unless I'm asked to by my customers. I will however demonstrate how I work all the baits and teach them whatever it is they need to be shown how to do.
If one of them takes a break I'll get up and cast while they rest.
I don't like having 3 baits flying in the air at once, to many hooks. |
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