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Posts: 1939
Location: Black Creek, WI | Have any of you ever gone through a funk where a particular lure seems to bring you lots of strikes but no hook-ups? If so... how did you cure the problem?
This year I've lost waaaaaaaaaay too many awesome strikes on the 10" Jake.... and with big fish too. The Jakester has always been one of my best hooking lures... almost rivaling a bucktail at times. Thus, I'm not quite sure what's going on.
Maybe I'm just in DENIAL that I could be at fault... but I'm still blaming it on "bad luck" or even worse yet.... the fish. Here's the deal. I've been working the Jake with an erratic retrieve and a fairly long pause. All missed strikes came on the pause. Most strikes I have seen the fish BEFORE it made contact with the lure... but in all cases the fish grab the lure perfectly sideways. Early in the season I would double the rod over with a Bob Mehsikomer single hookset... only to have the lure pop free after one or two gator-shakes. As the season progressed... the fish continued to absolutely SLAM the lure... only now I can't even sting them at all with a hook! I blame many of these missed strikes on "bad luck" because the fish scream in real fast and try to leave just as quickly (usually diving towards the bottom). The others I blame on the fish cause they seem to come up fast, grab the lure, STOP when they make contact with the lure, and instantly SPIT the bait before I can drive the hooks home. What's up with that?
I've been adding more "boring straight retrieve" to my casts and the fish that strike NOT on the pause get locked up good.... but I get fewer strikes. Not a very good trade-off if you ask me... especially when the fishing is tough.
Has anyone else encountered this? Is there a cure? Right now I'm simply expecting this to go away with TIME... but quite frankly.... I'm getting a little IMPATIENT (heh heh). |
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Posts: 32959
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I lost over a dozen on a Pacemaker this year (8 in a row!) including the big girl I finally stuck with an Awaker and the 48.5 Jack caught with me on a bucktail. I have no explanation, as the fish ate the thing exactly as they should have. Most just seemed to spit it out about half way back to the net. I changed the hooks, T'd the hooks, just about everything I could think of, same results. I think in my case it was plain bad luck. |
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Posts: 259
Location: Alexandria, MN | I don't know what to tell you -- I also have great hooking % with the Jakes. I do replace all the hooks with 4/0 or 5/0 Eagle Claws. Usually the 5/0 are for trolling and the 4/0 on the ones that I cast, fewer fouled hooks.
Good Luck! These lures do draw strikes, another one that I have had good luck on is the Pulsator from Big Fork Lures. Smaller profile so they get a better hold of it.
If you keep getting hit, sooner or later you will hook some face.
Steve |
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Posts: 1189
Location: Bagley,MN 56621 | I hear you...my go to/highest confident bait is my shallow raider. A bait that always hooked up good and kept them hooked. I had 3 this year slam it good and not either stay on or get hooked in the first place.
I bring mine in rather violently and got to watching my bait after what happened......it totally rolls upside down!! All 3 fish were in 18-25' suspended and came up real fast from underneath....I think they hit the top of the lure(which would be on the bottom when it rolled) and the hooks were sticking straight up. |
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Posts: 4520
Location: Chippewa Falls Wisconsin | Cant say I have had that problem, infact I have yet to get a fish to eat a 10" Jake this season and I have pitched it quite often. The problem I keep having is my 10" Jake gets tangled with my leader 1 out of every three times I cast it, and worse if its windy. Hintz also has the same problem.
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Posts: 2361
| Wish I was man enough to throw a 10" Jake!
Two questions that may or may not be relevant, have you changed anything in your terminal tackle? and have you commonly seen these fish hit in the past or are the visual strikes in greater proportion for whatever reason this season? These two things could impact hooksetting and timing of the hookset, both of which might influence success.
Any season now the lumbago, ague, arthrity and bursity, will fall upon you and you will not be doing a lot of 10" Jake twitchin, and your problem will be solved. BTW you could probably obtain some original pigs if you advertised. I hear they are easier to work than a 10" jake. |
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Location: Pewaukee, WI | I went on a streak this year with a sand cat.....every time I tossed the thing fish would commit but I couldn't get those hook to hang for the life of me...some real heart breakers too...............just have to fish through them thats all......
does anyone think these fish are getting a bit more wary every year......I've only had two fish this year actually get a mouthfull of hooks..everything else has been a nerve wrecking one barb wonder on the back hook.........great for release of course but geeze..seems like they are just nipping and swiping all season long |
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Posts: 1939
Location: Black Creek, WI | Wow, some quick replies. Glad to hear I"m not alone here with this "missed fish" thing. Maybe it will just be one of those 2003 quirks we talk about in the future?
FSF, apparently I am finally getting "old". Twitchin' those Jakes have pinched a nerve in my neck... so bad that the chiropractor finally gave up and sent me to a REAL doctor. As soon as surgury came up as the solution... I quit seeking professional help and have chose to ignore the pain as long as possible. Anyone know where I can get some Vicadin (ha ha)?
I have not changed a thing with my Jakes over past years. I did start tossin' them with my new 7'6" Heavy Avid... but quickly switched to my trusty 6'9" when I thought that could be part of the problem. Lost fish with both sticks.
I still think it has nothing to do with the lure... and is more the nature of the strikes. It just amazes me that a fish can hit a Jake (or any lure for that matter) with an open mouth and not hook itself... hookset or no hookset. If I didn't SEE it, I wouldn't BELIEVE it. Also... many of these strikes that occur further from the boat I would never even know occurred if I was not paying close attention. In other words... forcing yourself to stare at the sky or shoreline (fish with blinders on) so you don't react too quickly is not a solution. The fish hit and spit without ever causing the line to go tight. If fact... they may actually be creating some momentary slack. Exciting... yet frustrating.
jlong |
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| Jason
Man, sorry to hear you're continuing to lose lots of fish. You still using stiff rods with your superbraids? Old habits...
My success ratio on big fish (48+) hooked went from near zero with stiff rods, superbraids, and VMC conecut hooks to 80% since making major changes 3 years ago. I now use long, soft rods with my superbraids, along with either Eagle Claw 774's or Mustad Round Bends. I twitch 10" Jakes with a 7'7" or 7'10" MH Thorne Bros. rod - a bucktail action rod.
BrianF.
Twin Cities
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Posts: 1939
Location: Black Creek, WI | BrianF,
Yes, I remember you giving me the same advice earlier this season. Gotta plead ignorance I guess (ha ha). Earlier in the season when I was locking up with the fish and THEN losing them... I would have believed the softer rod action would help. However, the problem has blossemed to the point where I never even get the chance to sting these fish. They hit the lure and spit it before you can react. I consider myself pretty quick and responsive too... but these latest strikes just happen too fast.... and are coming straight at you so some momentary slack may also be part of the equation.
This is not a crisis (but it is a huge nuisance). It just seems strange to me that a fish can make contact with a Jake and not get stuck somewhere. I mean... it used to be that if a fish even swam close to that lure it would get foul hooked or SOMETHING. Maybe C&R is putting calouses in the musky's mouth... making it more difficult to stick 'em?? Ha ha.
Anyway, my real point of this thread was simply to find out if other people are experiencing solid strikes without ever getting a hook point in the fish. To clarify... I mean strikes where you see the fish made contact but you don't FEEL anything presumably due to slack line and a PAUSE in the retreive? I really don't think this has anything to do with the Jake per say. Should we start a support group (ha ha)?
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Posts: 5874
| I think your hooks are too sharp, and getting caught in the hard part of the fishes mouth. Dull them babies up, and then they'll slide right past the hard part, and bury themselves right in the soft corner of the mouth.
Right, Thick One? |
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Posts: 196
| I missed 6 fish in about 1.5 hours on a Lilly Tail earlier this year and I was afraid to tell anyone. I was bulging the bait and saw them swipe and felt the strike and set the hooks and nada. The were swiping and nipping in shallow water. I had a bad streak going for awhile but I am convinced it was the fish and the way the were hitting the bulging bait. Fished with a friend and watched him miss a few and then I figured it was the way they were eating the bait on that pattern. |
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Posts: 8
| Jackpots as usual, but they get a lot of fish
to show when another lures won't, so i use 'em.
the one's that frustrate me are the ones that
i've lost on spinnerbaits, both singles and tandems.
i have them on for 5 to 10 seconds and then...gone!
my hooks are sharp. i use superlines. what gives?
Mark |
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Posts: 346
| Maybe, a softer hookset followed by your normal hookset (this seems a little too out there)? Or, If you are setting to the side, set up, or if you are setting up try setting the hook to the side. This could possibly help since the fish are hitting the bait a specific way. You definately have to do something different, I don't think its just bad luck. Just some ideas.
MJB |
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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | Jason. I know exactly what you are going through. Back in 97 or 98 when I first started using big jakes on the river, I must have missed 10 or 12 muskies the first summer while ripping the bait and missing them on the pause. Sometimes the fish even jumped with the bait crosswise and I'd miss them. We lost some big fish this summer on the 10" too trolling that I can't explain. It really seems like it went in streaks for me and I started hooking fish on it at some point(not sure what I started doing). I do know one thing, and that is when I twitch the thing ultra hard and make the jake turn sideways and the musky grabs the lure by the head I miss them frequently(though this is the only way to get them to hit sometimes). One thing too, is that I immediately take off the VMC Xtra strong hooks and replace them with the Eagle Claw 774's like they used to use on them(the best hooking hooks offered IMHO). Good luck dude! |
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Posts: 440
| I had a thought today on this subject. Kind of stems from my BassHead side. Quite a while ago Pro Bass fisherman had to detune themselves with fiberglass rods while pulling crankbaits. Guys like Rick Clunn and Gary Klein, real sticklers for detail. They found that they were so in tune with there baits that they were pulling baits away from fish at the time of the strike. So instead of trying to contain themselves (which they knew couldn't be done)they just built slower reaction time in with fiberglass. Now knowing that the superlines and great graphite rods that we have, give us an over exaggerated sense of what is going on we just may be pulling away that fraction of a second too quick. If you watch underwater video it doesn't take much for a fish to clock a lure and spit it out when pressure is felt too quick. That fraction of a second gets the lure in the mouth tangled up instead of spit out. Now I am not sure that fiberglass or graphite/fiberglass muskie rods can built light enough to be handled all day with the large tackle. I have a 7' ST Croix Pro Glass rod in the boat now maybe I will dink with it and see what happens. Just some food for thought. |
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Posts: 32959
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | There might be something to that idea. I know I can't fish superlines with a creature because I miss almost every strike. Seems I react to qucikly and take the jig away from the fish. 14# monofilament is more forgiving, and delays the hookset the instant I need to pin them up. I set the hook AWFUL hard, so I might be taking the fish's mouth parts a bit to task. |
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Posts: 1939
Location: Black Creek, WI | Thanks everyone, some very good input provided.
However, I'm still thinkin' its the fish. Went 2 for 2 on the 10" Jakester this weekend. One of those fish had to take 3 swats at the bait before getting stuck... but I got her (ha ha).
I'm seriously considering the "softer" rod idea.... as long as I can generate the lure action I prefer. I"ve always felt I need the stout rod to kick the lure around.... but have seen others do it with glass rods.
Thanks again guys.
jlong |
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| Jason
It could be the fish. It could just be bad timing. You hit the bait hard on the twitch, just when the fish has lined up the (paused) bait and charges. Another miss. Sometimes they come back for a second pass. Sometimes they don't. Can't deny the strike inducing tendencies of a hard twitched Jake, so what are you going to do?
The only other thought I had on this was the idea that you are pulling the bait away from the fish, especially larger fish. Stay with me here. We know that the strike sequence of a big fish takes longer than a small fish. So, we've got to give that big fish more time to open its mouth, bite, close, and turn. This whole process could take 2-3 seconds on a sizable fish. The close and turn part is most important for a good (e.g. consistently successful) hookset.
Since a larger fish is more visible due to it's size, you're seeing these size fish strike more often. However, your stiff rod and superbraids could actually work against a good hook-up here. If you move the bait forward (so easily done with this set-up) before the fish has actually bitten and turned downward/sideward, you're setting into a mouth that is open and often facing you. Hooks don't find a home as often in that situation. Best to give a fish a count or two, let them take the bait down, before hitting them.
If you're slap-snapping or whatever, and don't see that fish till it's too late, the lure action being imparted is essentially the same as a hookset made before the fish has completed their strike sequence. You see a strike, but feel no resistance. The hook has nicked the inside of the mouth, but got snapped out due to poor hook/line angle.
So, the only advise to give a slack-snapper like you would be to hit them late, then hit them hard. Tough to be perfect on this when you're basically setting the hook (snapping) every couple of seconds. Of course, this could all be a lot of BS.
By the way, I was only 1 for 2 on doing this over the weekend.
BrianF.
Twin Cities
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Posts: 2361
| 2-3 second strike sequence, would that be like the reeeeaaaal skinny big fish?  |
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