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Posts: 133
| Interested to hear if anyone has a different approach to the transition. I throw big momma's quite a bit, but definitely feel like a huge % of fish that are coming in behind the bait scatter once I take the lure sub surface . The Second that wake from the bait disappears so does the fish. I continue the 8 for a good amount hoping the fish returns but I does not happen very often. Any guys have success keeping the lure on the surface during the 8?
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Location: Contrarian Island | some like to go under w the bait, I have never done it and get quite a few to hit in the L or first turn on the surface... if they aren't eating it under, then try it on top... |
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Posts: 833
| This is my technique built out on a foundation of scars...
Basic Retrieve: Make sure lure is engaged as soon as it hits the water. If there is active fish in the area you might see an explosion when it lands. If you are not ready you'll miss the hookset. This also is a point about the bait itself, if the bait doesn't start "plopping" as soon as it hits then it requires tuning. This includes baits that start subsurface then rise to the top after a few cranks. Tune them so they plop on top right away every time. For me the bait that is best on the first crank is a Wooden Magnum Pacemaker, but only after A LOT of modification and tuning.
During the retrieve, go SLOW. Topwaters are about sound, go just fast enough for that tail to pop. When you see a fish, then give it the gas. Even if there is no fish, speed up the last 20' to 30' of EVERY cast. Sometimes they'll follow under the bait and you might not see them.
A key thing to learn about your baits is how fast each can go without rolling. Understand this so you do not compromise the action when you give the bait speed. Each model is different. This is part of why going slow is advised, this isn't a bucktail where it will tolerate all the speed you can dish out. It will only go so much faster before it'll roll. So you need to keep as much of that burst in your back pocket for when the fish shows up. My mileage has shown the Big Mama Psycho Sister to be the most tolerant of speed without rolling.
For the Figure 8: In my opinion if it's gotten this far, it is now more about speed than sound so speed up (even more.) into your 8 and take the lure sub surface. You need that fish to come unglued.
A technique you can work on is starting the turn with the bait about 6'-8' out while maintaining (or increasing) your cadence of retrieve. This is done by cast placement, the bait should be coming in slightly behind your starting position, so that as you sweep your rod forward the bait makes a subtle turn toward the caster as it comes into the first turn of our 8. If you've sped up and the fish is still there, you'll likely have caused that fish to charge to catch up, the subtle turn a bit further away from the boat can be just what is needed to cause them to blow up. When it happens, enjoy the show. Musky eating at the point in the retrieve is probably my overall favorite strike in fishing since it is an explosion.
Good luck. Practice the above and you'll see your results improve. In general with Topwater your goal should be to trigger during the retrieve as boat side can get sketchy unless you've done enough to fully engage the fish. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | at times I will agree slow is key, at other times they want em fast.. have a bunch of fish in the last week on top and I was using a tranx hg at medium pace....so to say that slow is what you should do is not accurate...it's no different than a bucktail or trolling speed..at times slow gets the hits, at times it's burning...let the fish tell you what they want...a guy up in Vilas that has more 50s registered than about anyone up there I hear brings his old topraider in at mach 1... 
Edited by BNelson 7/19/2017 10:15 AM
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Posts: 528
| Always the contrarian...weird. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | how so? I agreed slow moving topwaters are great...but we get plenty of fish in the boat on slow moving topwaters, and plenty of them on fast... the thing with musky fishing is there are no absolutes or rules... fish don't read muskiefirst to know that they should only hit slow moving topwaters... do whatever works for you. I know what works for me and was only giving some advice...take it or leave it as always
Edited by BNelson 7/19/2017 11:54 AM
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Posts: 2687
Location: Hayward, WI | musky513 - 7/19/2017 11:50 AM
Always the contrarian...weird.
Not to show too much man love but Brad can pretty much back up his contradictions so.... |
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Posts: 620
Location: Seymour, WI | I think the advise by Brad P is very good and if you listen to what he's saying you'll be ahead of the curve on your top water fishing. Of course there are times when fish can be taken burning topraiders so if slow isn't working try some speed. |
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Posts: 133
| I always incorporate speed changes in retrieves In all Lures I throw. I have been programed by so many very successful fisherman to take the lure sub surface. I have had way way to many large fish become spooked or lose interest once I do that tho... I understand that already it's not a huge % of fish that follow get caught. Just looking to maybe tweak it enough that I stick one or two of these pigs. I believe that my boat side moves are tight!! It's just these dam prob baits... I switched from throwing walk the dog baits as much due to a lower hooking %. I'm going to try taking the the lure into the first part of the 8 on the surface then dipping it down. Part of me thinks that once I do take the lure down when the fish is heading towards the boat once the surface disturbance clears behind the lure they see the boat and me. I get the idea that if yiu dive it lower that there attention gets shifted in a downward direction... Just don't work for me. And I have a big sample size already to conclude from.
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Posts: 10
Location: MN | Last weekend I caught one at boat side by keeping it on the surface. The fish raced in behind the bait about 20 feet from the boat. I sped up and it made a violent strike missing the bait (right at the boat) and getting me wet. It shot off away from the boat. I continued on with bait on top and made one turn. The fish shot in from under the boat and hammered the top water. Talk about exciting. My heart is still pumping after that one. Most of my catches on top water come out there. This is the first one I nailed at the boat. Normally I have gone subsurface and the followers disappeared. I may just keep it on the surface from this point on. |
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Posts: 219
| I throw Big Mama quite a bit too. If the fish leaves after to turn on the top (doesn't follow)... I put it underwater. Watched one turn underwater and come back after it last weekend....she hit it underwater. lots of good advice above... ^^^^ |
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Posts: 833
| I didn't take Brad's contrary view as an affront. Heck, I plan to try speeding up some to see if I get different results. What I wrote, is what has worked for me based on my experience. That doesn't mean I'm not leaving fish on the table that might have been more likely to hit if I had used more speed.
The only hard and fast rule in this sport is there are no rules. The Musky is a critter with a lot of mood swings, nothing works best ALL of the time.
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Posts: 141
Location: Minnetonka | In the last 40 feet or so, I point the rod down and sweep from far right to far left, before going into the turn. With a 9 foot rod, you can get a decent directional change that can trigger them before they even get to the boat. |
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Location: MN | I've never been a fan of bringing the bait subsurface. It has never worked for me. I'll do it if the fish flares off but if they are right on it I think you are better off trying other tactics to trigger. Try speeding it up or changing directions before the 8 or turn.
I like to pull them slow and I have had good results. Most of the people I see throw them I think are reeling too fast. I have no doubt speed can work at times but in my experience creeping them along is key. |
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Posts: 770
| The 2017 lake x promo video is on youtube and has some great figure 8 footage |
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Posts: 114
| Just looked up the Lake X promo...nice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgQjwb73WJo |
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Posts: 1023
| I just don't have enough faith in prop baits. I have huge confidence in weahles and TD of fish on them in the last two years.
I usually throw my fat bastard for 20 minutes and then quit. Do u guys think they move fish as well as walk the dog styles? |
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Posts: 133
| I used to throw weagles and jackpots all the time... Still do... But prop baits are awesome too. I've been in the front of the boat and have went over fish that didn't move on the weagle but came in on the 2nd bait through. Actually got my uncle his first musky on that day on a prop bait. Nice 47" |
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Posts: 770
| I dont move as many fish on prop baits as i do on WTD topwaters, but i get more fish to eat the prop baits |
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Posts: 512
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whoa, did you guys catch the 2 fish follow about 30 seconds in? first one hits it with another one right behind it! very cool!! |
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