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Muskie Fishing -> General Discussion -> Anyone one else see this
 
Message Subject: Anyone one else see this
dfkiii
Posted 10/17/2015 8:07 PM (#788990 - in reply to #788650)
Subject: Re: Anyone one else see this





Location: Sawyer County, WI
I'm out in the national forest tonight and I'm hearing more than a few rifle shots.

No clue who is doing it, but poachers are going to poach regardless of their ethnic background.
sworrall
Posted 10/17/2015 10:03 PM (#789001 - in reply to #788650)
Subject: Re: Anyone one else see this





Posts: 32892


Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
Crazy. It's REALLY not worth taking a chance to poach a deer. Really expensive if you get caught.
esoxaddict
Posted 10/17/2015 10:20 PM (#789003 - in reply to #788650)
Subject: Re: Anyone one else see this





Posts: 8792


I am more worried about losing sleep and/or a bullet through my window than anything else.
Yooper Padre
Posted 10/18/2015 5:40 AM (#789015 - in reply to #788650)
Subject: Re: Anyone one else see this





Posts: 337


Location: Watersmeet, Michigan
If this follows the pattern of what's happened with fishing, things are going to get out of hand quickly. The few regulations that do exist are not enforced, and in the rare instance that they are, the violators are brought to tribal court where fines seldom exceed $100

In a very short time the Wisconsin Chippewa will move into Minnesota and Michigan as the deer herd is depleted. Right now, after severely damaging Wisconsin fisheries, they've begun encroaching on Ojibway waters here in the U.P. After just one season, Keweenaw Bay, our finest lake trout and salmon fishery, has become the Dead Sea.

What's worse, with this deer hunt we're talking about people running around at night shooting rifles, not spearing fish and setting gill nets. I believe people will be killed before this is done.

BTW, my grandmother was a Menominee Indian and our family has always opposed these special priviliges which now extend hunting and fishing beyond the sustenance harvest allowed by the treaties. Like a pestilence they take, destroy, and never give back.

Fr. K

Edited by Yooper Padre 10/18/2015 5:44 AM
NathanH
Posted 10/18/2015 6:38 AM (#789017 - in reply to #789015)
Subject: Re: Anyone one else see this





Posts: 859


Location: MN
First I think shooting at night is a safety issue first and foremost. I would hope this would be limited to reservation land. I just don't know how many natives really harvest to be honest. It's payback for the wolf hunting if you ask me. If MN had kept the numbers in check or heaven forbid not gone along with this reintroduction I'm not sure this or some of the big spearing takes place. On the topic of wardens Steve is right these guys are just trying to protect a resource which is a thankless job. Give the guys and gals a break. I have seen 3 in 25 years. Twice in MI fight to gave native nets moved from the water due to a lack of something.
sworrall
Posted 10/18/2015 9:50 AM (#789039 - in reply to #789015)
Subject: Re: Anyone one else see this





Posts: 32892


Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
Yooper Padre - 10/18/2015 5:40 AM

If this follows the pattern of what's happened with fishing, things are going to get out of hand quickly. The few regulations that do exist are not enforced, and in the rare instance that they are, the violators are brought to tribal court where fines seldom exceed $100

In a very short time the Wisconsin Chippewa will move into Minnesota and Michigan as the deer herd is depleted. Right now, after severely damaging Wisconsin fisheries, they've begun encroaching on Ojibway waters here in the U.P. After just one season, Keweenaw Bay, our finest lake trout and salmon fishery, has become the Dead Sea.

What's worse, with this deer hunt we're talking about people running around at night shooting rifles, not spearing fish and setting gill nets. I believe people will be killed before this is done.

BTW, my grandmother was a Menominee Indian and our family has always opposed these special privileges which now extend hunting and fishing beyond the sustenance harvest allowed by the treaties. Like a pestilence they take, destroy, and never give back.

Fr. K


Look into GLIFWC. The last statement needs a little adjustment. My son worked for many years doing creel and other conservation work under GLIFWC money, and also cooperated with GLIFWC stocking efforts, which he tells me were not insignificant. The regulations are not 'few' by the way.

This is from the GLIFWC website:
Judge Crabb gives a go-ahead for a treaty night hunt in Wisconsin

On October 13 Judge Barbara Crabb issued an order in favor of a highly regulated night hunting opportunity for treaty hunters in Wisconsin’s ceded territory.
GLIFWC and its member tribes welcome the night hunt as an additional opportunity for members to put meat on the table. However, the hunt also has strict requirements, including, but not limited to, taking an advanced hunter safety course, passing a marksmanship test at night, and completing a detailed site plan.
Dates and locations for taking the safety course and the marksmanship test will soon be posted at tribal registration stations. Regulations also will be available within the next few days on GLIFWC’s website.
dfkiii
Posted 10/18/2015 11:09 AM (#789052 - in reply to #789003)
Subject: Re: Anyone one else see this





Location: Sawyer County, WI
esoxaddict - 10/17/2015 10:20 PM

I am more worried about losing sleep and/or a bullet through my window than anything else.


Amen brother. I consider wearing blaze orange on my own land during gun season, but blaze orange pajamas aren't going to help at night.
sworrall
Posted 10/18/2015 12:13 PM (#789061 - in reply to #788650)
Subject: Re: Anyone one else see this





Posts: 32892


Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
True that...
Yooper Padre
Posted 10/18/2015 4:12 PM (#789097 - in reply to #789039)
Subject: Re: Anyone one else see this





Posts: 337


Location: Watersmeet, Michigan

sworrall - 10/18/2015 9:50 AM


Look into GLIFWC. The last statement needs a little adjustment. My son worked for many years doing creel and other conservation work under GLIFWC money, and also cooperated with GLIFWC stocking efforts, which he tells me were not insignificant. The regulations are not 'few' by the way.



I have to differ with you on this one, Steve. If you check the MI DNR Stocking Database, http://www.michigandnr.com/fishstock/  you'll see that in Baraga County, where Keweenaw Bay is located, there was absolutely no tribal stocking the last three years.

During the same time-frame there was no tribal stocking in adjoining Houghton County, where most tribal walleye harvesting occurs.

Although harvest limits exist, all too often they are not enforced.  Take out limit at point A, then take out limit at point B, then on to point C....

I'll be very glad if time proves me wrong, but I really think this night hunt will have some disastrous effects.  If that happens, the "walleye wars" of the 1970s, 80s and 90s will seem peaceful in comparison.

 

Fr. K

sworrall
Posted 10/18/2015 6:26 PM (#789129 - in reply to #789097)
Subject: Re: Anyone one else see this





Posts: 32892


Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
Doubt it on the violence, that wasn't an answer in the 80's and won't be now.

Keith was a fish tech in Woodruff WI for 13 years, not sure how the MIDNR works with the Tribes.
North of 8
Posted 10/19/2015 7:26 AM (#789179 - in reply to #789129)
Subject: Re: Anyone one else see this




I lived in the UP for almost 20 years and saw the Keweenaw Bay tribe develop the first casino and start to push for native fishing and hunting rights. I hired a tribal council member as a management trainee. To compare the Keweenaw Bay tribe's impact on the fishery to that of the WI tribes, in particular the Lac du Flambeau, is apples to cucumbers comparison.

The Keweenaw Bay tribe is dysfunctional, with inter tribe squabbling being taken to the extreme, including at one time the new tribal leadership dis-enrolling a large part of the tribal rolls, including a former chair person. When their former chairman was in federal court for a variety of corruption charges, the tribe used Head Start buses to transport tribal supporters. He was convicted, imprisoned and still got re-elected when he got out. Sadly, it is unlikely they will ever get their act together.

On the other hand, the tribal hatcheries in WI are playing a big role in the DNR's efforts to restore walleye fishing here in northern WI. It is my understanding that most of the larger fingerlings stocked in the lake I live on two years ago came from tribal hatcheries.

I am not saying there are no issues with WI tribes and natural resources, just pointing out that the Keweenaw Bay Tribe is a poor comparison.
gregk9
Posted 10/19/2015 10:18 AM (#789213 - in reply to #788839)
Subject: Re: Anyone one else see this





Posts: 791


Location: North Central IL USA
ARmuskyaddict - 10/16/2015 1:09 PM

Mute/moot... their you go... or is it they're?


It's 'there'.
Hodag Hunter
Posted 10/19/2015 10:48 AM (#789217 - in reply to #788650)
Subject: RE: Anyone one else see this




Posts: 238


Location: Rhinelander
The local WI tribes stock zero (0) muskie, but spear an enormous amount through the ice.

They do raise and stock walleye, but please research who pays for the walleye fingerlings. "Only sportsman tax dollars goes to fund fish hatcheries to replace depleted stock due to spearing."

http://dnr.wi.gov/news/weekly/article/?id=2875

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisconsin_Walleye_War
North of 8
Posted 10/19/2015 12:06 PM (#789228 - in reply to #789217)
Subject: RE: Anyone one else see this




Not disputing that the tribal hatcheries are paid for the fingerlings, same as the other private hatcheries. But, they have made the investment in the hatcheries and hired scientists, an investment made before the walleye initiative was funded.
KenK
Posted 11/9/2015 2:31 PM (#791919 - in reply to #788650)
Subject: Re: Anyone one else see this





Posts: 574


Location: Elk Grove Village, IL & Phillips, WI
Any updates on this? Just wondering how it is going and if anyone has seen them out there at night.
Jeff78
Posted 11/9/2015 6:37 PM (#791947 - in reply to #788650)
Subject: Re: Anyone one else see this





Posts: 1660


Location: central Wisconsin
On the news about a week ago it was reported that one doe was killed on opening night. I've not heard anything since.
Pointerpride102
Posted 11/9/2015 6:49 PM (#791950 - in reply to #791947)
Subject: Re: Anyone one else see this





Posts: 16632


Location: The desert
Jeff78 - 11/9/2015 6:37 PM

On the news about a week ago it was reported that one doe was killed on opening night. I've not heard anything since.


The end of the world is nigh....
sworrall
Posted 11/9/2015 6:51 PM (#791951 - in reply to #789217)
Subject: RE: Anyone one else see this





Posts: 32892


Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
Hodag Hunter - 10/19/2015 10:48 AM

The local WI tribes stock zero (0) muskie, but spear an enormous amount through the ice.

They do raise and stock walleye, but please research who pays for the walleye fingerlings. "Only sportsman tax dollars goes to fund fish hatcheries to replace depleted stock due to spearing."

http://dnr.wi.gov/news/weekly/article/?id=2875

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisconsin_Walleye_War


Keith worked on many projects that would not have happened at all without GLIFWC funding. All his Winter creeling work as well.

Define 'an enormous amount'. I'd wager more harvest still happens during hook and line season state wide than what happens from Winter spearing as far as overall numbers. It's just a disturbing and unregulated portion of the treaty rights TAC, and offends people easily. And, the stupidity we all witnessed a couple years back fueled more spearing activity...because they could, and flipped off the 'activists' in the process on Social Media. That was a net loss for muskie anglers all the way.

The structure of the Ceded Territories fisheries management is already pretty much set in stone; it's been three decades. It's easy to improve populations with increased budget $$ if the State wants it, witness the walleye recovery program on the Minocqua/Tomahawk chain. Money talks, and our DNR has been pretty much broke for a number of years.

Whining from either side about the treaties or the tribes exercising the treaty rights guaranteed them or not being allowed to in the case of timber rights, etc. won't change a thing, they are what they are and no amount of racism from either side will improve the cooperation between the tribes and the State. A lack of racism from both, on the other hand, coupled with cooperative economic growth programs....just might. It sure has on the Minocqua/Tomahawk chain walleye recovery program.
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