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Muskie Fishing -> General Discussion -> WI 50 inch Proposal Results
 
Message Subject: WI 50 inch Proposal Results

Posted 4/21/2003 12:59 PM (#67558 - in reply to #66928)
Subject: RE: WI 50 inch Proposal Results


I would like to think if the 50" size limit would have passed, the opposing voters would have been much more gracious. I know also that with grace comes class and that is why there has been no gloating.

I believe the "leaders" of the 50" movement missled their supporters, leading them to believe that they were in the majority and this is the source of all the frustrations.

I have to disagree with the argument that only the non-muskie anglers or the muskie meat eaters voted against the proposal. In the past months I have talked to hundreds of diehard muskie anglers that were dead set against the 50" size limit and all or most are 100% release and they represent a lot of muskie catches.

As for the question of motives for Tony Rizzo or myself, lets first take a look at Tony. Tony's resort has been around for many years and most of his business is repeat business. If he would have voted for the proposal he might have lost some reservations but in all likely hood he would have picked some up also, so that is a wash. Tony gets $325. for an 8 hour day guiding and is probably the most booked guide in Wisconsin. If he would have voted yes he might have lost some bookings but he is in such demand, he knows as well as I know, that he would have easly been able to fill those cancelations. So for Tony its a wash, same business for a yes vote as for a no. No greed involved, he is a honorable man and because to him it was biologically unsound and voted his conscience.

As for my motives, it is really histerical to hear folks proclaim the WMT is making all kinds of money when we payback in cash at 90%. Let me clue some folks in, 10% doesn't even come close to paying the bills to run the tournament circuit. Facts are this, out of the 13 tournaments we host, only two bodies of water were effected. We had already made contingency plans if the 50" proposal passed and to tell you the truth, it was quite easy picking two new bodies of water, no big deal. The WMT is not bound contractualy to any lake or community, so we have the freedom to chose any lakes that fit our criteria. So, if the measure had passed, it would have no negative effect on the WMT. Tuesday April 14, the panel at the meeting was unable to give me persausive answers to my two questions so I personally made an informed decision, and voted my conscience.

It would be the pinicle of miscalculations to believe that the majority of the muskie anglers wanted the 50" limits. In addition, the muskie anglers who are against the 50" rule have as strong of convictions about their possition, or perhaps even more, as the anglers for the 50". It can also be strongly argued by the angler who voted against the proposal, that the group who was voting to pad their own pockets were the resort owners, bait and tackle shops, guides, muskie magazine(s), and muskie schools who voted in favor of the 50" proposal instead of having the best interest of the fishery. Thus, to every muskie angler who was opposed to the rule (admittedly with most not atending the meeting to vote no) because in their mind it would be detrimental to the ecology of the lakes muskie fishery, should they boycott those establishments that put their own money interest ahead of the welfare of the ecosystem??? I think the last thing muskie fishing needs is a range war and any talk of boycotts would only serve to chase away future muskie anglers (or present day muskie fishermen), and would be counter-productive in our attempts to advance the sport.

Remember folks there is two side to every issue, and both think they are on the rite side.

Thanks and have a great season,
Tom McInnis

Posted 4/21/2003 1:05 PM (#67559 - in reply to #66928)
Subject: RE: WI 50 inch Proposal Results


o by the way thats PINNACLE, my mistake.
sworrall
Posted 4/21/2003 11:40 PM (#67633 - in reply to #67559)
Subject: RE: WI 50 inch Proposal Results





Posts: 32886


Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin

I re-read some of the American Fisheries Society Special Publication 15 tonight, as I remembered some of this debate from the LaCrosse Symposium and a Northern Wisconsin study. From 'Factors Affecting Population Quality' it says, paraphrased:

Two parameters were used to define quality--density of legal sized muskies and an index of the size structure at the beginning of a season.

The greatest adult densities occured in the more shallow, dark water lakes, with stocking being a contributing factor, as was higher angler exploitation.

The best quality was found in deeper, clear lakes, with lower angler exploitation as a factor, plus competition from Northern Pike.  Concern toward biological characteristics producing  a 'Female muskellunge fishery' asked that this system type's characteristics be carefully examined due to slower growth and higher mortality of males if a higher size limit was imposed.  Both populations related to sechhi disk, mean depth, and growth coefficient of males.

 

Bottom lining it:

'The definition of a trophy is largely sociological.'

 (That's for sure. Why did 'trophy' become 50"? Why not 48"? Or 53"?)

'The great variabliity in population characteristics, especially growth rates in Wisconsin Lakes suggests that optimum growth potential could be reached by managing each lake in accordance with it's specific conditions, rather than by uniform management goals and regulations. Mangers are also encouraged to obtain a better biological definition of the term 'trophy management' (if that is the program goal) prior to setting individual lake restrictions.'

That, everyone, was written in 1984. The statewide limit was 30". There were fewer muskie lakes at the time, and less care to managing the fish as a trophy. Release rates were 32%, considered really good at the time. Catch rates at the time averaged 0.038 fish per hour.

Now the statewide limit is 34", with several lakes and systems at between 40" and 50". there is much to be learned from future management of some of the more promising waters as 'trophy fisheries', if indeed we can agree what a trophy might be, and what  use/application for sportfishing on those waters might apply.

The DNR is preparing a series of fact sheets regarding this issue, which I hope to bring to you in the form of a link to the documents very soon. The offices in Madison are eager to continue informing the public to the goals and impacts of this program. I think if we collectively take a deep breath and let this process work we will all find a way to get our overall goals met towards a quality trophy waters management program in the state.

The muskie world  needs another International Symposium. It was expensive back then. REALLY expensive. I know, the company I worked for was a sponsor. It will be extremely expensive today, but should be considered. The people who spend their day every day looking out for the fisheries in this state should be listened to as should those from Canada and the other states that have good quality muskie fisheries. Anyone out there willing to kick in a half million to get this done?


Posted 4/22/2003 8:51 AM (#67665 - in reply to #66928)
Subject: RE: WI 50 inch Proposal Results


Another International Symposium IS getting done, in 2004. Again being put together by Muskie's, Inc.
Don Pfeiffer
Posted 4/22/2003 1:30 PM (#67700 - in reply to #66928)
Subject: RE: WI 50 inch Proposal Results




Posts: 929


Location: Rhinelander.
Some very interesting thoughts here. I think what we have to remember is this. Something has been learned from the vote. Now they can go back to the drawing board and start fresh with a new and better plan. I am sure they will and hope they get more input from anglers on it.It will happen eventually but when it does lets have it right.
It is not me just saying you cannot compare wisc, to canada and minn but our own d.n.r says it.
Tom not a bad thought abot the slot and 45 with a tag. I will keep that in mind in my next talk to the biologist.I also do not feel its fair to bash someone because they have voiced feelings against it. These feelings are what makes for good input and hopefully a better plan.
Steve I believe said it right when said lakes have to be managed individually. This is what can lead to trophy waters.

Don Pfeiffer
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