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Posts: 48
| Im new to this and want to finish some baits. What can I spray from a rattle can to finish them. I tried a clear enamle and found out that wasn't the right thing lol |
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| You'll find that 2 part epoxies work better. A lure spinner will be needed for that.
http://muskie.outdoorsfirst.com/board/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=10...
Some spray automotive clears, but you would need to deal the fumes.
Never tried any rattle can projects. Maybe somebody else will chime in on that.
Scott |
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Posts: 910
Location: Hastings, mn, 55033 | You can use MinWax Polyurethane spray cans over Createx. Build up 6-8 light coats. You can also dip into a can of MinWax poly. I prefer the clear gloss. |
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Posts: 791
Location: WI | I would not suggest using any sort of automotive clear over water based paints as it is lacquer based and will cause catostrophic results. I as with most builders use some sort of 2 part epoxy |
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Posts: 48
| Thanks guys for the help. I plan on using an epoxy at some point but still gotta build a turner. Im just anxious to get a clear on the couple I got painted |
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Posts: 791
Location: WI | I really don't know of anything that might work well from a rattle can that would work over water based paint. Maybe try to find a water based clear that you can shoot through your airbrush. Problem with that is you have exceeded your flash time between coats.
This is a common mistake with people of all skill levels. Every type of paint has a range of time that will ensure that your next coat will chemically bond to the last. Let's use lacquer paint as an example. You have a few hours between coats to do the next coat and have it stick. So if you start a bait you must keep each layers drying time with in its range and in theory will have to finish clear the same day. I could show you dozens of photos where paint has chipped off at a certain layer because of this. This is not as much an issue if you use epoxy. In fact I have found it important to wait 24 hrs between paint and c
Epoxy so as to allow all of the solvents dry ( evaporate ) before sealing over. Hope this helps. Hate to see you go through the whole process all to ruin them on the last step |
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Posts: 910
Location: Hastings, mn, 55033 | Trophyseeker50
Those same paints will also have a second period, maybe as much as 7 days after painting, in which you can recoat.
And I can say without hesitation that MinWax Polyurethane out of spray cans works well sprayed over both Createx and AutoAir water based paints. And you do not need to use the water based variety, in fact I've found the regular to work better. Have coated well over 200 baits with it and have had zero issues.
Its not as tough as epoxy's, but its also not near as sensitive to work with. I had more failures with epoxy where water had penetrated the bait, causing it to swell and crack the topcoat. |
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Posts: 791
Location: WI | Oil based paints have a before or after time frame for recoating. but that is for a completely different reason, which is that there is a point when paint is too dry to recoat but the solvents are still evaporating out. That's why the after time. Fact is that no matter what the paint if you don't recoat in the first flash time there will not be a chemical bond between the two. Fact.
Yes the paint will go on. But it has no teeth to bite into the last coat.
If done correctly all colors and layers will be applied in a time frame that they all cure as one shell
Yes , once water gets beyond the paint and into the wood it will begin to fail. What I do to avoid this is to uses a universal seal coat on the bare wood. I dip them to ensure that the wood is sealed completely. I don't care what kind of clear or paint you use but wood is wood and if not sealed the paint will eventually start to release and fail. Epoxy gives you a thick hard shell to which water must penetrate. That paired with a sealed wood gives you the best bet to last a long time.
With my business I have repaired about every type of failure there is. If you go back to earlier posts about before and after restorations you can see pics
Edited by Trophyseeker50 1/24/2015 12:26 PM
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Posts: 791
Location: WI | Here is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. The pearl white paint was allowed to dry to far. The next colors of on fine and last a while but once scratched it begins to flake off to the white. This is what i mean about no teeth. When the first coat is too cured the next coat can't bond to it. I have had at least 150 repaints come in with this issue I. The last few years. Very common mistake.
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Posts: 4266
| I use spray-on Envirotex for clear coating walleye and bass lures with great success. When I paint I will use House of Kolor mid-coat clear so I can handle the lure and put on scale netting without worrying about ruining the paint job. Not sure if water-based paints have things like mid-coat clears, but I've used several coats of spary-on Envirotex during the lure making process. It works great if you use 3 light coats and let each coat dry completely between applications. |
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Posts: 791
Location: WI | Good call beaver. I also use an intercoat clear between some coats especially if I want to stop for the night. |
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Posts: 4266
| I love using it. Especially to hold flakes and glitter securely and to decrease the chances of me smudging or otherwise screwing up a paint job.
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Posts: 910
Location: Hastings, mn, 55033 | Trophy,
Was that pearly white layer scuffed/sanded prior to applying the top layers of paint? Hard to tell from the pis but doesn't appear to be.
I havent had any problems when painting after the 2nd recoat time, as long as the first coat is scuffed prior to doing so. Perhaps Ive just been lucky.
I have seen that problem arise in others baits even when they were coated in time, but not heat seat to completely bond the 2 layers together. Thats the main reason I heat set every color!
On the epoxy topcoats, with the number of penetrations in the body of a creeper (screws for wing brackets, belly hook hole and hanger etc) Ive found it next to impossible to get them completely sealed and impervious to water getting in. The additional weight of epoxy vs poly can also effect the action of my baits. |
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Posts: 791
Location: WI | I don't think the paint was scuffed. It was a smity sent to me for a repaint. If you scuff you would be fine. Bit if you scuff one of you colors you are sanding a color that's seen and risk seeing scratches. Every one has there own method. I use lacquer paints and over the last 11-12 years have come up with a sequence that works. I would definitely recommend trying a sanding sealer before any paint. All your nooks and crannies get sealed. |
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Posts: 4266
| I found an awesome sealer but it only comes in 5 gallon buckets. If you make lots of lures, you might like it. I got it because you can use water base or lacquers and it penetrates all kinds of wood.I put a blank in the bucket and wait for the bubbles to stop and it's ready to go. It dries in 30 minutes but I always let them hang overnight. I have never had a problem with it. I even take prototypes down to the yacht club and check them out with just the sealer on the lure. It works like a charm. It's made by Sherwin Williams and it is in their Sherwood line. Supposedly the toughest sealer that they have. It's called Sherwood Homoclad. If you are having problems with water getting in your lures or paint not adhering to the treated wood, give it a try. Like I said, it only comes in 5 gallon buckets so maybe you could find someone to share it with. Brush it on, dunk the lures, whatever you do, it keeps the water out for sure and gives your paint a good surface to adhere to. |
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Posts: 910
Location: Hastings, mn, 55033 | I agree sanding sealers help, and I often use them. I also use an appliance epoxy out of spray can for my primer coat. Works well for me. The problem with baits like creepers is they have to be painted and cleared before assembly. that means once that is done, I am still drilling holes adding screws etc.
Sometimes I wish I made crank baits or something where I could do an epoxy topcoat as the LAST step instead of a middle step.
This is what this forum should be about. Guys sharing info of whats worked for them and what hasn't. Helps us all cut the learning curve down and saves a lot of needless frustration and waste. |
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Posts: 791
Location: WI | A few pictures of spray envirotex done by beaver
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Posts: 910
Location: Hastings, mn, 55033 | I might give the Etex spray a try to see how it compares to Poly. Im guessing its probably real close to Minnwax's PolyCrylic product. I think its important to note, the Etex spray IS NOT a spray version of Etex Lite epoxy finish. It is a spray acrylic sealer/finish.
What does it run per can cost wise Beav?
I will get a couple pics up of a few baits done with spray poly tomorrow |
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Posts: 4266
| I'm not sure. I bought a case of 12 cans a few years ago for $9/can. I should have mentioned that it's not Etex in a can, but it is a really tough spray-on coat. I use it for walleye and bass lures all of the time. It's also a good thing to carry with you on a vacation or tokeep upat the lake for when you get a lure with surface scratches or tackle box rash. It can bring the finish back to life and help protect the existing finish. |
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