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| https://www.facebook.com/fshookshots/videos/1593787107551535/ |
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Location: mercer wi | Is this the replacement for the toro beast they had at shows this year or do they have 2 new reels comin |
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Location: St. Lawrence River | upnortdave - 6/16/2015 12:04 PM
Is this the replacement for the toro beast they had at shows this year or do they have 2 new reels comin
totally different |
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Location: mercer wi | Doesnt answer question. I seen new reel in wausau. So do they have 2 new musky reels comin out |
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| I believe the pretty lady to the left is holding the revo toro beast. 
https://www.facebook.com/AbuGarciaNordic/photos/a.499744706762883.10... |
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| the ambassadeur beast is made in sweden so thats cool
if you look through the comments on facebook, you will also see clear pics of the revo toro beast |
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Location: St. Lawrence River | upnortdave - 6/16/2015 12:31 PM
Doesnt answer question. I seen new reel in wausau. So do they have 2 new musky reels comin out
Totally different..... so yes..... |
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Location: Waukee, IA | Two new reels!? Oh Lawd my bank account is gonna take a beating. |
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Location: Northern Illinois | Saw this sneak peak
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | You will want one.
Really, you will want 2.
Berkley Summit, 2015.
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Location: central Wisconsin | Steve, are you hinting there will be several gear ratios available? |
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Location: Grand Rapids MN | Looks wrong handed to me! Hopefully lefties in the line up |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Jeff78 - 6/16/2015 8:53 PM
Steve, are you hinting there will be several gear ratios available?
OK, I stand corrected, you will want 4.
And the rods? NAILED it.... |
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Location: Lake County Illinois | The Revo Toro Beast I got to see at the show was really nice and didn't seem much larger than a 60 and had a high speed gear ratio. |
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Location: Lake St.Clair | sworrall - 6/16/2015 10:48 PM
Jeff78 - 6/16/2015 8:53 PM
Steve, are you hinting there will be several gear ratios available?
OK, I stand corrected, you will want 4.
And the rods? NAILED it....
Getting some Lefty Love on these? |
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| I want that Toro Beast like yesterday! |
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Location: Western U.P. | If I remember right, wasn't the sample of the Toro Beast at the Wausau Show this past Winter a lefty? Should be promising for the south paw Musky guys. |
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Location: mercer wi | Yea was a lefty. 6.4 gear I think. |
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Posts: 293
| I'm confused because there's already a Revo Beast available....am I missing something? |
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Location: Waukee, IA | The new one will be a Revo Toro Beast. Bigger, and tougher supposedly. |
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Location: St. Lawrence River | MuskyNate27 - 6/17/2015 2:15 PM
I'm confused because there's already a Revo Beast available....am I missing something?
The available reel is a bass size reel, the anticipated reel is of musky size.
Love to get my hands on one. |
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Location: Waukee, IA | The new Ambassadeur Beast has a 5.1:1 gear ratio according to the FB video. Also has an adjustment knob on the palming face, ugh. Looks sweet though |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Don't believe everything you hear or see on the new reels. There's no 'adjustment knob' sticking out on the palming face of any of them.
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| Sworrall the ambasaduer beast have a tension knob on the side. Its easy to see in the video from the link in the top post.
Its because people are talking about 3 different reels.
Revo Beast, (small bass reel been out for a while)
Ambassadeur Beast (classic round ambassadeur reel like the rocket reels)
And then the revo TORO Beast.
Which is properly the most exiting thing, and the one we all would like to know more about. |
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| Zinox - 6/18/2015 8:10 AM
Sworrall the ambasaduer beast have a tension knob on the side. Its easy to see in the video from the link in the top post.
Its because people are talking about 3 different reels.
Revo Beast, (small bass reel been out for a while)
Ambassadeur Beast (classic round ambassadeur reel like the rocket reels)
And then the revo TORO Beast.
Which is properly the most exiting thing, and the one we all would like to know more about.
What he said... Curious if this is basically a C3 with a new handle and graphics or is this a higher quality round reel like the Morrums. Based on the name, Zinox is probably correct in that it is similar to a Rocket.
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Location: Waukee, IA | I kinda get what Steve is saying, the reel shown could be a decoy with cool graphics and the new handle. But if the Ambassadeur Beast does have that knob you can bet I won't be the only one who notices.
I'm way more excited about the Revo Toro Beast anyway. Has the potential to be a PERFECT muskie reel if the rumors are correct.
Edit: Thanks for the pic, Martin. That's my concern about the Ambassadeur Beast. But honestly I didn't even know about this reel until Tuesday. The Toro Beast looks killer in all black. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The reel shown is not a Revo model. I had one of the new round reels in my hands yesterday, and will own one because of cool factor.
It's not similar to a Rocket other than outward appearances. |
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| I didn't try to compare it with a rocket other than the fact that it is a round reel. |
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Location: Iowa | Why didn't they make this reel have a thumb bar release like the Record 60 instead of that push button...I have lost fish in the 8 because my drag froze and I could hit the push button, my dad lost a monster one day for that same reason in the 8, just my 2 cents worth. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Well I'd say you need to learn more about the reel, which you can't do until after ICAST.
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Location: Lake St.Clair | sworrall - 6/18/2015 12:39 PM
Well I'd say you need to learn more about the reel, which you can't do until after ICAST.
Are they staying in the $ 280 price point Steve? |
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Location: central Wisconsin | ToothTamer - 6/18/2015 12:43 PM
Are they staying in the $ 280 price point Steve?
Dream on |
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Posts: 1000
| So they are coming out with something ergonomic to go after the Tranx or Lexa 400? I'd love a Lexa 400 with Shimano/Abu quality. I'd pay for it too.... |
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Location: Iowa | sworrall - 6/18/2015 12:39 PM
Well I'd say you need to learn more about the reel, which you can't do until after ICAST.
From the pictures and video link it appears as though there is no thumb bar, is this incorrect? |
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Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | Big Perc - 6/18/2015 3:56 PM
sworrall - 6/18/2015 12:39 PM
Well I'd say you need to learn more about the reel, which you can't do until after ICAST.
From the pictures and video link it appears as though there is no thumb bar, is this incorrect?
From the video, no there is not.
If you want a thumb bar, and this reel does not have one, then this is not the reel you are looking for... |
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Posts: 425
| I found this : http://www.angling-international.com/efttex-nominee/abu-garcia-revo...
esoxone |
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Location: Waukee, IA | Excuse my while I drool. I need one of those! |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Jeff78 - 6/18/2015 12:54 PM
ToothTamer - 6/18/2015 12:43 PM
Are they staying in the $ 280 price point Steve?
Dream on
There will be a new kick fanny reel in that price range, yes. No need to dream. I am fishing one now. |
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Posts: 1000
| Is anything on the horizon with Shimano? |
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| tolle141 - 6/18/2015 9:50 PM
Is anything on the horizon with Shimano?
apparently a case of "reel" envy. |
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| I'd love to see them turn the calcutta 400 into a more ergonomic reel. think smaller tranx |
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Location: musky waters , WI | . |
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Location: Lake St.Clair | muskymania - 6/19/2015 12:31 AM
.
Pm me that link if you would I'm sure someone made you delete it? |
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| Its was the same link as in the first post in this topic. |
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Location: Tennessee | So for the new Toro Beast or whatever it's called, is it truly legit competition to the Tranx in ability? Or will Tranx keep its throne? |
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Location: MN | ^^ not likely |
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Location: Lake St.Clair | Zinox - 6/19/2015 2:26 PM
Its was the same link as in the first post in this topic.
http://www.angling-international.com/efttex-nominee/abu-garcia-revo...
Most Definitely was not.
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Posts: 1100
| Well yes it was and you can still see the link in KSauers quote post just below his removed link(but now it doesn't work).
And the link he sent to you is the same as esoxone posted earlier. |
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| Revo Toro Beast. I need this! saving money now. |
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| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oeXVy2hIxU
for those who are interested |
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Location: Tennessee |
Thanks for the link! I wish I knew the exact price. It's tempting to wait before getting another Tranx just to see |
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| Nice to get a bit of information, but don't look like it's going to replace my Tranx´s |
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|
This is the best look yet at this reel. A monster looking gearbox. looks like it could be the new double 10 reel. One thing I noticed is the rear end is not as pointy as the Revo toro,one of my main complaints. It wasn't as comfortable to me as round reels. Not as big and bulky as the tranx,but hopefully just as powerful.
I wonder if the gears are bigger and stronger than the TE's. Pikemaster? |
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Location: MN | Interesting when talking about the second reel, the Ambassador Beast, he comes right out and says it is based on the previous Rocket reel |
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Location: Hayward, WI |
Interesting. Coming out with 50 and 60 sizes. Maybe not much bigger than the regular Revo Toro, but the gear box looks bigger. Sounds/looks like the spool will be bigger diameter and narrower - similar to the Tranx.
I would say it isn't going to be a Tranx, but maybe competing in the same market for less money. Maybe just as durable? I like the balanced handle.
I might have to try to wait for one of these to come out.
Tucker |
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Location: Northern Illinois |
Thanks for the share!!! |
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Posts: 72
| Looks like they updated the NaCl with revo beast features. Infinity brake system which works perfect on my revo beast and the lower sitting gear box. Glad they come out with a 50 size also because I dont need a 60 size for pike fishing. |
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Posts: 157
Location: Lincoln, NE | I'm glad they came out with a balanced power handle as well. The difference for me whether I end up with a Tranx or Beast might just come down to the lower profile of it. The Tranx is more comfortable than a round reel but still not as comfortable as the low profiles for me. If it lands between my NACL and a Tranx but is more comfortable, and $100 less than a Tranx that may be the selling point for me. |
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| Cranker - 6/21/2015 9:15 PM
Thanks for the share!!!
+ 1 !!!
Very cool the subtitles in polish : ) : ) : )
esoxone |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Propster - 6/21/2015 2:03 PM
Interesting when talking about the second reel, the Ambassador Beast, he comes right out and says it is based on the previous Rocket reel
That doesn't mean the guts are the same. They are not.
We were at the Berkley Summit last week for 4 days, went through all the new Pure Fishing gear for 2016 and picked up some samples. |
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Posts: 72
| Some more toro news:
http://www.eu.purefishing.com/blogs/de/dirksabugarciablog/2015/06/2...
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Posts: 251
| My Swedish is a bit rusty but it looks like they will have 4.9:1 and a 6.3:1 gear ratios available. Wonder what the line/turn will be? I love the NaCl and already pumped for this one. They also made a comment about the thumb bar in the video so hopefully they fixed that issue with the NaCl. |
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Posts: 1000
| Steve - how would you describe the dimensions of this vs the comparable NaCl? Longer? Taller? Shorter? The Toro's never fit my hand quite right vs the Lexa 400. Hoping they gave a bigger side plate to grab on to?
Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oeXVy2hIxU
Text from page:
Now the cat is out of the bag! Recently the upcoming Revo Toro Beast has already won the EFTTEX award for best new multi-role, now I can tell you already imagine the new Toro Series 2016 in detail. The Revo Toro will be released at the end of the Beast and as Toro Toro S. All technical specifications can be found again listed below in the article.
The new Toros will be available as a 50's and 60 models and the Beast Toro also each again as high-speed variant of all sizes! The Toro Beast are 2 additional winches, at the Toros a suitable size for each role. The new Toro has become considerably flatter, slightly narrower and has been revised in many details. The thumb button has been completely redesigned and is now very smooth. The new construction, the casting performance and load with large baits has been optimized. The Toro Beast has a combined magnetic centrifugal brake and the Toro S via a purely magnetic brake. The braking power is now at 25 kg, which is an announcement!
The new Toro series is probably an absolutely worthy successor and Wurd improved in many details. Obviously, Abu Garcia has also adopted the few criticisms and those eliminated in the new generation. The new Toro represents a significant stage of development and all Bigbaitangler will probably hardly wait to show the end already.
Abu Garcia Revo Toro Beast:
flatter low-profile housing than its predecessor
same high line capacity as its predecessor
Brake power up to 25kg
revised thumb button
all models, it is a 4.9: 1 Normal translation and a 6.2: 1 provide high-speed
7 saltwater resistant and stainless HPCR ball bearings + 1 roller bearing made of stainless steel
Carbon Matrix brake
Special coil of aerospace aluminum
stainless frame and side panels made of X-Cräftic Aluminum
durable Duragear brass gear
InfiniMax Breaking System for almost stepless settings
bent crank with large EVA knobs
contain additional power a crank and a casting powerhandle
TI-coated line guide
Abu Garcia Revo Toro S:
flatter low-profile housing than its predecessor
same high line capacity as its predecessor
Brake power up to 25kg
revised thumb button
5.3: 1 ratio
4 saltwater resistant and stainless HPCR ball bearings + 1 roller bearing made of stainless steel
Carbon Matrix brake
Special coil of aerospace aluminum
stainless frame and side panels made of X-Cräftic Aluminum
durable Duragear brass gear
MagTrax Breaking System for constant braking performance
bent crank with large EVA knobs
In addition, a power crank in the 50 size
additional casting power crank in the 60 size
TI-coated line guide
Here you can see even a video of the EFTTEX in Warsaw - Christer Nilsson of Sweden, the Abu Revo Toro Beast before: |
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Location: Wisconsin | Good that they added the counter weight on the power handle. Solves the engaging issue..... |
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Location: Merrill, Wisconsin | ^^^ Agreed. Im super excited.. But a little nervous to spend that kind of money.. |
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Location: Hayward, WI | TheYoungGun_ - 6/23/2015 9:58 PM
^^^ Agreed. Im super excited.. But a little nervous to spend that kind of money..
I haven't heard a specific price on these yet. I thought Steve said something about $280, which is the same price as the current Revo Toro.
Have any price rumors been leaked yet? Also looks like the regular Revo Toro might be turning white?
Tucker |
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Location: Waukee, IA | From what he hinted at I assume the Revo Toro S will be around $280. I would imagine the Toro Beast to be around $350-$400, but that's speculation. |
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| http://www.angling-international.com/efttex-nominee/abu-garcia-revo...
here it says 300 € ( about $ 335 actual change )
esoxone |
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| That is one sexy reel. Need it in my life! |
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| I asked about the new reel back at the MKE show and was handed this one.. Not really sure what it is.. (pic in attachment)
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| Looks like a prototype Toro Beast to me. |
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| So there's going to be 2 different models,the S,and the Beast. The cheaper S will have the standard 5.3: 1 ratio and the more expensive Beast will have a slower 4.9:1 and a 6.2 high speed ratio. I'm not sure I'd like a 4.9 over the 5.3. that's almost a winch at 4.9. Hmmmmm. Wonder how the 4.9 will stack up to the Tranx 4.6 power gear
? Wish someone,Steve, had some real world experience on them.
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Posts: 1901
Location: MN | ^^ If they make the gear and spool big enough to significantly increase the IPT then yes 4.9 may be just right. I'll see it when I believe it. |
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Posts: 32934
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I ran an S all day today and absolutely love it. One of the nicest reels I have ever used, and I got one on it today on a Violent Strike Number 8.
I ran Violent Strike double 10s today with the outfit. No issues.
The rod rocks, too.
(DSCF6165.MOV.Still003.bmp)
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| Have you used the 2 ratios of the Beast? |
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Location: Waconia,MN | What rod? Is abu coming out with a new rod as well? |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Rod. Did I say rod? |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | KSauers - 6/30/2015 9:22 AM
Have you used the 2 ratios of the Beast?
yes. |
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Location: OP. Kansas | Steve, You hinted at new rods in an earlier post. Any 2 piece for flyins?
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Posts: 5
| Steve what about Toro Beast? Better than NaCl? Im still thinking about reel for my swimbaits but I dont know If I should pick NaCl or wait for Toro Beast.. |
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| sworrall - 6/30/2015 4:04 PM
KSauers - 6/30/2015 9:22 AM
Have you used the 2 ratios of the Beast?
yes.
So tight lipped. LOL. I know you probably can't say much yet, but you know how we are when an intriguing new product is going to come out. We want to suck up all the info we can get hoping it will be "the reel".
Did you test the 2 gear ratios sufficiently to get a feel for what their best their best applications would be? And what are they in your humble opinion?
The white S looks cool. |
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Posts: 32934
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The high speed Beast is an animal. Keith fished the prototype at AML for a few days and back home, and has one now. Great line pick up and built like a tank. Glassy smooth. I tossed the lower speed reel a few times and it felt the same...just a less line pick up.
The S is perfect for what I do. I'll own a couple.
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Location: Lake St.Clair | The 34" on the beast and the 29" on the s is gonna be nice. Those venerate rods look sick also. |
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Location: Western U.P. | ToothTamer - 7/1/2015 12:31 AM
Those venerate rods look sick also.
Care to share some info about these rods with the rest of the class? |
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Posts: 5
| Any new informations about the Toro Beast guys? |
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Posts: 251
| Looks like Abu Garcia's Website as the Revo Toro beast up:
http://www.abugarcia.com/abugarcia-reels-baitcast-reels-low-profile...
The 60 HS - 6.2:1 has a line pick up of 34
The 60 - 4.9:1 has a line pick up of 27
Both are listed at $399 and available on 9/9/15
- I will likely be ordering a HS |
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Posts: 358
Location: Western U.P. | I see the NaCl 50 5.4 model and the lefty models were dropped. We might see the end of the NaCl line in the next year or 2. The Revo Toro's were phased out a few years ago in a similar way.
Some interesting looking new rods on the AG website also. |
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Posts: 1000
| Attached is breakdown that goes into IPT, bearings, drag, weight, braking, and price. It covers Abu, Shimano, and Daiwa. My favorite reel currently is a Lexa 400H, but I would like Abu quality (no flame wars).
Three of these are really interesting:
Toro Beast HS (50 and 60) - I'll have to hold it with that price delta
Toro S 60
Correct me if I'm wrong as I haven't held it, but this ambassadeur beast seems like a novelty item. $400 for a 6500 size reel with 24 IPT? Especially next to NaCl 60, Toro S 50, and Toro Winch.
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Musky reel breakdown.xlsx (73KB - 541 downloads)
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Posts: 1148
| Cedar - 7/13/2015 3:58 PM
Some interesting looking new rods on the AG website also.
The Fantasista Beast rods look pretty nice and go out to 10'1" |
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Location: Northern Illinois | All of abu's new muskie products are now up on their website. Looks good
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Location: Tennessee | muskie tamer - 6/30/2015 12:32 PM
What rod? Is abu coming out with a new rod as well?
Keep your eyes peeled for a new line of Abu muskie rods to match up to the new Revos. I've been testing several of the prototypes since winter and you'll be able to get them very soon now. Even a 10'1"
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Location: Lake St Clair | Nice! |
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Posts: 1000
| That a beast on there? |
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Location: MN | Looks like a Okuma Komodo 350 |
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Location: Hayward, WI | Looks like MSRP for the Beast is $400, which is $100 more than the MSRP for the NACL. Maybe the Beast will be available in some places for around $320-$350. I just bought an NACL for about $220.
The white S series have a listed MSRP of $250, or 50 bucks less than the NACL. I wonder what they will sell for, and I wonder how they will compare to the NACL in terms of quality. I have had good luck with the NACL I used last year and hoping the 2nd one I just bought works just as well.
Interesting stuff coming from them. I was hoping one of the beast versions came in a 34-36" per crank version, so happy to see the 34" reel coming out. I'll probably be pretty tempted to get one of those next year to replace my Saltist. I'll sacrifice the 1" per crank for spool brakes and low profile. |
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Location: Waukee, IA | Any word on if the Toro Beast HS will be able to deal with double tens? The NaCl HS does not and it's 4 inches/turn slower than the Beast. I would imagine that unless they went to stainless gears that it wouldn't cut it for cowgirls. |
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| I'm sure it will pull them in ..uncomfortable .. High gear ratio 6.1 - 1 and power don't go hand in hand...the 4.9-1 is 27" per turn...that will make 10's butter! |
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Location: Tennessee | tolle141 - 7/15/2015 2:03 PM
That a beast on there?
No that's my Komodo on the new Abu rod. What I can say is my thoughts on the rod will be based heavily on its actual market price. To the higher end of rumored pricing, my money will be on a LT or similar. If in a mid range as suggested by several testers then it will be an excellent rod. |
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Location: Waukee, IA | I assumed the normal speed (4.9:1) would be a great fit, I just wondered if the new HS was up there with the Tranx HG. People who own the HG Tranx claim it works well for tens, but I've never tried one. Looks like I'll need to pony up $400 for a new Toro Beast either way. |
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Location: Hayward, WI | IAJustin - 7/15/2015 2:22 PM
I'm sure it will pull them in ..uncomfortable .. High gear ratio 6.1 - 1 and power don't go hand in hand...the 4.9-1 is 27" per turn...that will make 10's butter!
I hear what you're saying, but have to say it is very similar to the Saltist 20 in gearing and inches per turn, and I think the Saltist does a pretty good job of pulling 10's as fast as I want to without wearing me out. I was actually hoping they came out with something between the Tranx PG and HG as I think the PG is a little slow for such a big reel and the HG might wear a guy out by the end of the day? |
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Posts: 2068
| don't agree with your post curleytail .. your PG is as fast ,maybe faster per crank the first 25% - 50% of your cast than your Saltist 20 and it is definitely easier to burn big baldes all day with a PG vs Saltist. (I own both reels)
Edit: Don't forget reels are measured inches per crank when full of line ...a reel like a Toro 60 with 80 lb braid might get 27" full ..but closer to 22" after a bomb cast... Big spools are a good thing if you want to fish blades fast ...90% of blade fish will eat at the first 25% of the cast or boatside |
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Posts: 2687
Location: Hayward, WI | Wouldn't spool width be the biggest factor that plays into how fast a reel is after a bomb cast vs a full spool at the boat? Does a Tranx have a wider spool than a Saltist? The current NACL's I would guess have a wider spool than a Tranx? The new Beast looks like it has a taller, wider spool more like the Tranx.
I don't own a Tranx so I can't compare. |
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Posts: 2687
Location: Hayward, WI | I should clarify - I'm not trying to argue that the new Beast will be better than a Tranx, but it looks like it will be easier for me to afford, and I'm hoping the high speed version will still be powerful enough to handle 10's while being a fairly fast reel. I'm sure they'll be pretty hot as soon as they are released so I'll be looking forward to reviews from real life use on this new reel. |
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Posts: 1828
| All this talk about "power" sort of bugs me. I wish it could be put to rest.
To "burn" some specific bait at some specific speed, you have to put in the exact same amount of power using any reel UNLESS certain reels are more efficient than others. Quality in materials and manufacturing makes that difference. Not spool size, gear ratio, handle length, or anything like that.
If you don't like to push very hard on the handle, then get a longer handle or use lower gear ratio reels or both. But if you get longer handles to "save" on the force you have to apply, then you're paying for it by making bigger circles. If you're saving on force by using lower gear ratio lures, then you're paying for it by having to turn the handle faster.
If you want to see the effort you actually put into burning a bait with each reel, look at the attached spreadsheet. I added the right half to the sheet that tolle141 posted. I didn't know any of the reels' handle lengths, so feel free to enter the actual handle lengths (from spindle center to grip center) to see your actual input force.
Attachments
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Musky reel breakdown - POWER.xlsx (18KB - 434 downloads)
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Posts: 2068
| BUT..spool size makes a huge difference on speed when you look at the entire cast...I don't care how fast a reel is full ... Take a toro 50 for example load it up with 100Lb line how fast is it with 50%-70% of the line off the reel on a bomb cast? |
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Posts: 1828
| IAJustin - 7/16/2015 9:58 AM
BUT..spool size makes a huge difference on speed when you look at the entire cast...I don't care how fast a reel is full ... Take a toro 50 for example load it up with 100Lb line how fast is it with 50%-70% of the line off the reel on a bomb cast?
You're absolutely right about that.
the wider the spool, the less the speed changes throughout the retrieve. Also, larger diameter spools will have less of a speed change throughout the retrieve.
In your 50 size Toro example, you CAN compensate for the lower IPT when the bait is way out by simply cranking faster. But that's uncomfortable.
I prefer to not have to crank 100 mph, so I like higher gear ratios with larger spools. I accept that it means I actually have to push harder on the handle. So then a longer handle helps with that, and I accept that I then actually move the handle in a bigger loop per crank. It just feels better to me. |
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Posts: 750
Location: Minneapolis, MN | I was actually interested in the S as a replacement for my 400B, but now I'm thinking maybe I'll see if I can grab a NACL at a reduced price. I'm not really digging the paddle handle that's shown for the S, nor am I a fan of how they are currently listing only a paddle handle for the 50 size and a power handle for the 60 size.
I do find it interesting that with the release of these newest lines they are actually listing a difference in IPT from one size to the next even if you stay in the same gear ratio. |
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Posts: 815
Location: Waukee, IA | Different spool depth between the 50 and 60 sizes? |
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Posts: 246
Location: Grand Marais, MN | Is anyone around here looking forward to the ambassadeur beast round reel? seems out of place in today's push to go toward lower profile reels with high retrieve rates. I love round reels, but This reel is going to cost 400 bones for, from what I can tell, no new features. its bulky, slow, and has an oldschool push button.
Just confused, seems like abu could do a lot better on a round reel. |
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Posts: 750
Location: Minneapolis, MN | bigfoot - 7/16/2015 4:24 PM
Is anyone around here looking forward to the ambassadeur beast round reel? seems out of place in today's push to go toward lower profile reels with high retrieve rates. I love round reels, but This reel is going to cost 400 bones for, from what I can tell, no new features. its bulky, slow, and has an oldschool push button.
Just confused, seems like abu could do a lot better on a round reel.
Yeah I'd be interested to find out what their thought process was behind that reel. |
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Posts: 815
Location: Waukee, IA | I don't think the ambassador Beast would be such a bad reel had they had a smooth palming plate. The tensioner knob in the middle automatically rules it out for me. I don't think everyone palms reels though, so it could be good for them. |
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Posts: 425
| Jesse,thanks for the sheet.
I would like to understand one thing.
Are the reels that have a high / higher drive torque better than those that have a low / lower drive torque or the drive torque is not a determining factor when you choose / buy a reel ?
esoxone |
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Posts: 1000
| jaultman - 7/16/2015 9:44 AM
If you want to see the effort you actually put into burning a bait with each reel, look at the attached spreadsheet. I added the right half to the sheet that tolle141 posted. I didn't know any of the reels' handle lengths, so feel free to enter the actual handle lengths (from spindle center to grip center) to see your actual input force.
I'm glad somebody checked that thing out lol Thanks for taking it to the next level.
If anyone wants to fill in handle length data, that would be very insightful. Preferably full handle so we can just divide by 2. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | dami0101 - 7/16/2015 4:37 PM
bigfoot - 7/16/2015 4:24 PM
Is anyone around here looking forward to the ambassadeur beast round reel? seems out of place in today's push to go toward lower profile reels with high retrieve rates. I love round reels, but This reel is going to cost 400 bones for, from what I can tell, no new features. its bulky, slow, and has an oldschool push button.
Just confused, seems like abu could do a lot better on a round reel.
Yeah I'd be interested to find out what their thought process was behind that reel.
Any one actually read what that reel is supposed to be, what the gearing and internal parts are, etc?
Guess not. But who's surprised? |
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Posts: 1000
| Teach us Steve. We're hopeless |
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Posts: 1828
| esoxone - 7/16/2015 8:30 PM
Jesse,thanks for the sheet.
I would like to understand one thing.
Are the reels that have a high / higher drive torque better than those that have a low / lower drive torque or the drive torque is not a determining factor when you choose / buy a reel ?
esoxone
If you're referring to the Drive Torque Required column in that spreadsheet -
Any reel that has high IPT (inches per turn) on the retrieve will have a proportionately high torque input requirement. The input torque comes from you pushing on the handle. So torque in this spreadsheet isn't really a metric for rating how "good" the reels are. It just shows the relationship between all the reels in terms of cranking speed AND input torque to get a particular job done. With high speed reels, you crank harder (torque) but slower. Lower-speed reels, you crank faster but not as hard.
It's a matter of preference - what feels good to you.
For what I've realized "feels" best to me, that Toro Beast 60 High Speed with the counterweighted power handle looks awesome. |
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Posts: 246
Location: Grand Marais, MN |
"Any reel that has high IPT (inches per turn) on the retrieve will have a proportionately high torque input requirement. The input torque comes from you pushing on the handle. So torque in this spreadsheet isn't really a metric for rating how "good" the reels are. It just shows the relationship between all the reels in terms of cranking speed AND input torque to get a particular job done. With high speed reels, you crank harder (torque) but slower. Lower-speed reels, you crank faster but not as hard.
It's a matter of preference - what feels good to you."
you dont input torque, you input a force. If a fella could apply the same amount of force on, for example, a tranx pg and a tranx hg, they would have the same torque (force * length of lever arm). Reels do not have "power" or "torque". Just look at the physical definition of all these words that we use and see how most people dont use them correctly, and then nobody understands what anyone is ever talking about because everyone has their own definition they are working with.
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Posts: 750
Location: Minneapolis, MN | sworrall - 7/16/2015 11:09 PM
dami0101 - 7/16/2015 4:37 PM
bigfoot - 7/16/2015 4:24 PM
Is anyone around here looking forward to the ambassadeur beast round reel? seems out of place in today's push to go toward lower profile reels with high retrieve rates. I love round reels, but This reel is going to cost 400 bones for, from what I can tell, no new features. its bulky, slow, and has an oldschool push button.
Just confused, seems like abu could do a lot better on a round reel.
Yeah I'd be interested to find out what their thought process was behind that reel.
Any one actually read what that reel is supposed to be, what the gearing and internal parts are, etc?
Guess not. But who's surprised?
I looked at the reel information right after I looked at the revo toro beast, and for the same price, I'm not seeing why one would get the ambassadeur beast, 5.1:1 with 24 IPT over the toro beast, 4.9:1 with 24 or 27 IPT. Thus I'm interested to find out what the thought process is behind making this reel. If you can provide some insight, then please do so. |
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Posts: 1828
| bigfoot - 7/17/2015 10:48 AM
you dont input torque, you input a force. If a fella could apply the same amount of force on, for example, a tranx pg and a tranx hg, they would have the same torque (force * length of lever arm). Reels do not have "power" or "torque". Just look at the physical definition of all these words that we use and see how most people dont use them correctly, and then nobody understands what anyone is ever talking about because everyone has their own definition they are working with.
You're totally right, you input a force (tangent to the reeling motion circle, at a perpendicular distance, or torque-arm, to the drive gear axis) which results in torque input to the drive gear. I fully understand this stuff. and I agree, almost everyone misuses all these terms, making it impossible to reason with most people.
In my spreadsheet I have a column for input torque to the drive gear, which is totally terminologically correct and independent of reel handle geometry. in further posts I explained how the handle comes into play. Don't want to push hard on a reel? get a low IPT or a long handle or both. But you're not getting more actual work for nothing.
Reels don't have power, users have power. To burn a certain bait X at V speed you have to input P power, the exact same amount, no matter what reel you use. You can do it by reeling really tiny circles, really fast, with very little force on the handle. Or you can do it with even LESS force by spinning bigger circles, really really fast. Or more force, spinning big circles, slowly. etc. |
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Posts: 246
Location: Grand Marais, MN | Great explanation there jaultman. I had a quick chance today to look at that spreadsheet, cool that someone put in the time to get that together.
For as much as we talk reels on this forum I wish more guys understood the concepts better. then we could spend all our time arguing about something else |
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Posts: 670
Location: mercer wi | So is the ambassador beast $400. And if so, what makes it better then the rocket. For those in the know, id like to know too. Is it worth the $200 diffrence or is it great because its free to some. Just wonderin. |
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Posts: 425
| " If you're referring to the Drive Torque Required column in that spreadsheet "
Yes,precisely
Thank you,Jesse !!! Now I have understood : ) : ) : )
esoxone |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | upnortdave - 7/17/2015 5:57 PM
So is the ambassador beast $400. And if so, what makes it better then the rocket. For those in the know, id like to know too. Is it worth the $200 diffrence or is it great because its free to some. Just wonderin.
Who is it 'free' to?
Not us, that's for sure. I think that was rude, correct me if I misinterpreted the comment. This is a reel built SPECIFICALLY for muskies, not 'adapted to' the sport. They did a great job.
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | tkuntz - 7/15/2015 2:07 PM
Any word on if the Toro Beast HS will be able to deal with double tens? The NaCl HS does not and it's 4 inches/turn slower than the Beast. I would imagine that unless they went to stainless gears that it wouldn't cut it for cowgirls.
It did for us. I'll try to get some video of the reel working big baits this week or next. On the road back from ICAST right now. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | dami0101 - 7/17/2015 11:47 AM
sworrall - 7/16/2015 11:09 PM
dami0101 - 7/16/2015 4:37 PM
bigfoot - 7/16/2015 4:24 PM
Is anyone around here looking forward to the ambassadeur beast round reel? seems out of place in today's push to go toward lower profile reels with high retrieve rates. I love round reels, but This reel is going to cost 400 bones for, from what I can tell, no new features. its bulky, slow, and has an oldschool push button.
Just confused, seems like abu could do a lot better on a round reel.
Yeah I'd be interested to find out what their thought process was behind that reel.
Any one actually read what that reel is supposed to be, what the gearing and internal parts are, etc?
Guess not. But who's surprised?
I looked at the reel information right after I looked at the revo toro beast, and for the same price, I'm not seeing why one would get the ambassadeur beast, 5.1:1 with 24 IPT over the toro beast, 4.9:1 with 24 or 27 IPT. Thus I'm interested to find out what the thought process is behind making this reel. If you can provide some insight, then please do so.
It's an intentionally 'retro' version of the old Swedish Ambassadeur reels with special graphics designed to sell to folks who loved those reels, but juiced up with the Beast gearing and drag system. I'll have one as part of my collection. So will quite a few other anglers out there.
The Revo Toro Beast and Toro S were built for you 'modern' guys. |
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Posts: 670
Location: mercer wi | sworrall - 7/17/2015 8:52 PM
upnortdave - 7/17/2015 5:57 PM
So is the ambassador beast $400. And if so, what makes it better then the rocket. For those in the know, id like to know too. Is it worth the $200 diffrence or is it great because its free to some. Just wonderin.
Who is it 'free' to?
Not us, that's for sure. I think that was rude, correct me if I misinterpreted the comment. This is a reel built SPECIFICALLY for muskies, not 'adapted to' the sport. They did a great job.
Wasnt meant as a cheap shot. Just dont see the price justified. Couple extra bearing. Will admit better fram n a new drag. |
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Posts: 1100
| As far as i understand, it(ambasadeur beast) has a CNC'ed one piece aluminium frame, instead of the normal 2 metal plates with some crossbars, this is a really expensive detail. |
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Posts: 32934
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | upnortdave - 7/18/2015 4:34 AM
sworrall - 7/17/2015 8:52 PM
upnortdave - 7/17/2015 5:57 PM
So is the ambassador beast $400. And if so, what makes it better then the rocket. For those in the know, id like to know too. Is it worth the $200 diffrence or is it great because its free to some. Just wonderin.
Who is it 'free' to?
Not us, that's for sure. I think that was rude, correct me if I misinterpreted the comment. This is a reel built SPECIFICALLY for muskies, not 'adapted to' the sport. They did a great job.
Wasnt meant as a cheap shot. Just dont see the price justified. Couple extra bearing. Will admit better fram n a new drag.
Completely new reel, new gearing, new drag that can be adjusted no matter the load so you can 'feather' the drag under extreme pressure, new spool...as I said a completely new design built specifically for Muskie fishing.
If you are bothered by the price and want a new and improved extremely nice reel, look at the Toro S series. Also a completely new reel at a lower price. I really like mine. |
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