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Posts: 1970
| why would $2500 scare people off? Its going to double the prize money!!! pay $1500 entry to win 25k ..I'm out. Pay $2500 to win 50K I'm in!!! ... Big payouts require big entry fees...dozen's of Saltwater tourney's have 5K-10K entry fees.... You aren't getting 100 boats to pay $1500 in the fall ...but you'll get 50 to pay $2500 and it would be a much better tourney. Who wants to deal with a 100 boats on the water at the same time ..tripping over each others docks.. |
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Posts: 1937
Location: Black Creek, WI | I think with high dollar payouts, you should consider more than a 1.5 day event as well. The BobbyM format pretty much eliminated the idea of cheating as you had to catch fish on multiple days. It also reduced the risk of losing to a "one hit wonder" by requiring consistency. Catching all your fish in one day was not to your advantage. Also, the Simply Fishing event confirmed that high stakes tournaments are not going to be an annual event. They attempted to run the same tournament the following year and could not generate enough interest. $2500 entry fees are not something most tourney guys can handle on a regular basis. I'm skeptical another event like that will ever get coordinated... but kudos to whomever may give it a whirl. |
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| if you can get 80 boats in 2004 - you would have no problem getting 50 now... This kind of optimism is necessary for any organizer...they'd also need to be known and respected in the muskie community to get people's trust with that kind of money. Until the right person actually steps up this is all just hyperbole. I'd be interested...but the lake matters a LOT, and that's where 2004 is the most different than 2015. |
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Posts: 1220
| Not to slam anything, but I would like a chance to beat 250-300 of the best sticks out there a lot more than 100 guys who just happen to have some do-rei-me lying around to gamble with. I just think those fees will keep away a lot of nice guys and good sticks. The musky world is really smaller than many think.....and generally poorer! I'm sort of dreaming about a really, really big win...maybe 5-6 fish and Nicole Kidman brings me the trophy and plants a big one right on the mouth, and 300 guys are cheering.....and my Ranger dealer stops telling me I better start winning or I'll have to wash boats to keep my pro-staff status. The rest is "only money!" |
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Posts: 284
Location: Eagan, MN | Nicole Kidman is married... |
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Location: Contrarian Island | Junkman
Posted 12/3/2014 8:43 PM (#742599 - in reply to #741286)
Subject: Re: New MN. Tournament Trail.
Offline
Posts: 807
" Not to slam anything, but I would like a chance to beat 250-300 of the best sticks out there a lot more than 100 guys who just happen to have some do-rei-me lying around to gamble with "
Ok...I was thinking about this today....ok so look at big money tournaments in other sports.. take the PGA for example..I have often paralleled musky fishing to golf in conversations w buds... just ANYONE can't enter the Masters.... I was thinking today what about an invite ONLY big money tournament.. as someone else said, the musky world of really good say the top 5% of the anglers out there, is pretty small, and no secret..sure there are awesome anglers (I hate the word "sticks" lol) that nobody or very few hear about..but overall, they are known.. invite the best 100... so at most 100 boats, I'm sure at least 25% don't do it.. I agree with the above..I'd rather go toe to toe with the likes of Lijewski, Tauchen, Luke R, Wojtuski (sp?) etc etc etc than beat someone that just has a big 621 and money to burn but barely has a clue how to work his gps unit...!!! (and I'm not even assuming I'm in that 200) this is just a random thought.
Edited by BNelson 12/3/2014 9:44 PM
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Posts: 1970
| Muskie fishing is more like the world series of poker...sure it takes some skill but it really helps to be lucky too! The best poker players in the world rarely even make the top 10. Lots of guys on this board beat any of the names you just listed in a three day muskie tourney. So many of the widely considered "best" guys in the sport didn't catch a fish in 2004... 2" away from being in the final two days right Steve J - ha!
Edited by IAJustin 12/3/2014 10:26 PM
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Location: Contrarian Island | well, that was over 10 years ago....I know I've become about 1000 x better angler since then.. I'd imagine most of the best have too.... |
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Posts: 1970
| ya the margin between the Herbeck's, Saric's , on and on.bla bla bla should have been greater back in 2004 ,,,there are 100's of anglers that have caught up now....Exactly why I'd be willing to throw my money in the pot I know I can win, so could a lot of guys on here...
Edited by IAJustin 12/3/2014 10:44 PM
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Posts: 142
Location: Appleton, WI | In defense of the 2500 entry fee. With the PMTT running 14-18k 1st place on average the last 5 years you can dump 1800 into it, beat at least 75 teams for 6 days, and sweep the trail to win 50k. Add another 1800 if you travel cheap and you're still spending 3600 to win the same amount of money this idea is proposing, and you only have to beat the field 2 days not 3 times at separate lakes. Eliminate the multiple travel expenses, up the intensity, and I do think it would gain attention. Guys could fish one event, spend less than they do to fish the PMTT trail, and win the same amount of cash as all 3 pmtt events pay out to win. IF..... a permit is granted I'd suggest running 80‰ field with a month to go or call it and send money back. If you wanna spend 5k to market it and 25 teams have entered but there's a month to go and it's not full, mail each of them back 2300. This would stop guys from waiting to see if fields build until the last minute. Nobody would be happy throwing down 2500 to fish for 12 or 15 that's why I'd like to see an entry guarantee % and deadline. |
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Posts: 64
| 2500 is a ridiculous amount to charge for a tournament -- no matter what the final payout will be. How many musky guys do you know that have that kind of cash just laying around? Only way that would happen is if you had a lot of people sponsored to get into the tourney and in the musky world that just doesn't happen. You would not get even close to 100 boats in that tourney. A lot of people think that 600 is a lot for the PMTT and that's why they stay away. I know people like to look back at that tourney in 2004, but times have changed now. There are so many more tournaments out there that people can find for cheap and close to home. If you had an expensive tournament you wouldn't be getting the best fishermen -- you would just be getting the ones who could afford it. |
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| by depending on entry fees to provide payouts, it will always mean things are up in the air, people will wait to enter, and final payouts will be a percentage of the promised "full field" amount. heck, even the SF event in '04 didn't achieve it's advertised $100k payout because it didn't have a full field of 100 boats.
if someone wants to guarantee a large, minimum payout, there needs to be a sponsor or group of sponsors willing to put money forward ahead of time. that's how the PGA, the WSOP, etc. do it, and that's how the big money bass and walleye tournaments do it too. so, there needs to be a dollars and cents (sense) answer to why a company would want to pay thousands of dollars to sponsor this tournament...will it result in additional sales for that company that are equal/greater than the amount of money they provide? how does the tournament become advertising that reaches a large group of potential customers, much beyond the relative handful of people actually fishing the event?
and along those lines, it's interesting that Cabela's has partnered with the Muskie Expo in Chicago. |
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Posts: 1220
| Ran into Tim at the Ranger open house yesterday, and he says we're going to the Big Vee for the third qualifier this coming season. |
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Posts: 30
| I remember this being a well attended event back in 2006
The 40" limit kept fish numbers down back then, but hope this year
gets a great turnout
For a well organized trail |
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Posts: 2276
Location: Chisholm, MN | Junkman - 12/6/2014 6:25 PM
Ran into Tim at the Ranger open house yesterday, and he says we're going to the Big Vee for the third qualifier this coming season.
If that's the case, I'm in! |
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Posts: 56
| I would love to do it, but there is no way I could afford a 2500 split. Plus travel and lodging? Sounds a bit high.. Just my 2¢. |
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Posts: 536
Location: deephaven mn | $2500 don't think i could do that
however it is a muskie tournament a one bite can jump you high on the leader board |
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Location: varies | Stir the pot a bit regardless of buy in.
Payout to the top 5.
3rd place goes to biggest fish. So, someone could take 1st and 3rd or 2nd & 3rd or 3rd, 3rd&4th, 3rd and 5th. etc...
potential for bigger earnings based on numbers and size and biggest fish gets a place too.
although i think pmtt like fee's would be better and get a better, bigger turnout. |
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Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | No matter who does this I'm in for Higher payouts...... If I do this it will Pay down from 5th to 7th place with a $50,000 first place..... and Maybe 2016......Promotion, Planning, and sponsors are key to it's Success.
Like I said: I'm Thinking..... |
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Posts: 1055
Location: Medford, WI | Top H2O - 12/10/2014 11:36 PM
Like I said: I'm Thinking.....
....That's a bit scary...
-Jake |
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Posts: 670
Location: Otsego, MN | To bad it's not this fall on Vermillion. Since the PMTT is heading there this summer you would have a lot guys fishing that tournament and might make them feel more confident about heading back a month or two later for a big dollar tournament. |
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Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Pedro - 12/11/2014 12:24 PM
To bad it's not this fall on Vermillion. Since the PMTT is heading there this summer you would have a lot guys fishing that tournament and might make them feel more confident about heading back a month or two later for a big dollar tournament.
To much planning to make it next fall... This has to be successful, and requires more planning than 10-11 months.
For what it's worth, I've been running my own business since 1990 and learned that your Plans are a make or break deal...Good Planning = Good Success.
Thanks Jake. Scary, huh. |
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Posts: 3136
| Unless there's been a change at the local office at vermilion the area fisheries manager never granted permits for a sat and sun tourney unless it was late in the fall otherwise it would have to be a fri/sat or sun/mon. The first thing to do is call that office and ask when the earliest date would have a chance to be approved. There's two lakes that will draw interest Vermilion and Minnetonka, nobody has a clue about mile lacs anymore leech isn't sexy enough with the young guys, Cass maybe. But let's be honest none of this happens until you get Paul Hartman to take it on and actually do it. You have to be a Minnesota resident to get a tournament permit and he's the only guy in the state with the ambition. GIve him your input when you see him at the muske expo he owns and runs that too.
Edited by happy hooker 1/13/2015 4:26 PM
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Posts: 2004
| There was a bass tournament last August on a Saturday and Sunday. |
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Posts: 3136
| You guys are thinking wrong you don't have to come up with $2500,,it's $1250 and your partner has to get the other. I was in the BobM mega vermilion tourney ad liked the idea that for one shot vs a trail if I got lucky I'd get a nice check. I'd rather do one big one, but a trail is costly gas,hotel vacation time from work. I Know guys who did well,won events,won boats won world championships and they barely made a profit with all the expenses, barely got offered any sponsorship. Despite their success they don't even do them anymore. Unless your someone like Luke or Hammernick or JLong and his partner Bill (can't pronounce his last name) who regularly get paid musky trails should be looked at the same has softball league's your in it for the fun and competition not money. I'm not gonna be lucky enough on a trail to beat Luke, Hammernick and JLong but I could get lucky in one event. A mega costs more but only one time expenses and with the larger jackpot if you do well you get a nice check. I'd like to see one done every three or four years if you do one every year you won't get the full field people will procrastinate and say. "Ill do it next year"
Edited by happy hooker 1/14/2015 8:33 AM
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Posts: 49
| 50 teams $1500 = 75k. 15k off of top
1st - 20k
2nd - 15k
3rd - 10k
4th - 7k
5th - 5k
1,500 both days for big fish
I think a bunch of guys walk away at end happy with there payout. I think this format could fill easy in either WI or MN
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Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | happy hooker - 1/14/2015 8:16 AM
You guys are thinking wrong you don't have to come up with $2500,,it's $1250 and your partner has to get the other. I was in the BobM mega vermilion tourney ad liked the idea that for one shot vs a trail if I got lucky I'd get a nice check. I'd rather do one big one, but a trail is costly gas,hotel vacation time from work. I Know guys who did well,won events,won boats won world championships and they barely made a profit with all the expenses, barely got offered any sponsorship. Despite their success they don't even do them anymore. Unless your someone like Luke or Hammernick or JLong and his partner Bill (can't pronounce his last name) who regularly get paid musky trails should be looked at the same has softball league's your in it for the fun and competition not money. I'm not gonna be lucky enough on a trail to beat Luke, Hammernick and JLong but I could get lucky in one event. A mega costs more but only one time expenses and with the larger jackpot if you do well you get a nice check. I'd like to see one done every three or four years if you do one every year you won't get the full field people will procrastinate and say. "Ill do it next year"
That way of thinking makes WAY to much sense..... But I like it. |
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Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | It's been awhile since this topic has been looked at.
A Big money Mega Tournament like the one Mr. Bob M. had a few yrs. back would be welcome, I think.
What's your opinion ? A Minnesota Muskie Trail, or a One Time big money Tourney ?
Does anybody have Paul Hartman's number ? Ha....
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Posts: 558
| Either one of those options sounds great to me. |
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Posts: 3136
| Permit time is nearing,,,december
Edited by happy hooker 10/15/2015 7:51 PM
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