|
|
Posts: 32800
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | 'Research since the 80's and this paid Web class is as far as we have come? Hmmmm.'
Then supply us all with a workable solution. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | mnmusky - 10/2/2014 1:28 PM
Don't know... Chemicals? Seems they chemical the metro lakes for lakeshore home owners so they don't have to feel the weeds when they dip their toes in the water off the dock. I recently saw a full size billboard in Rogers on I94 advertising how killing weeds in the lake is great. Showed kids jumping off a floating trampoline into the lake having a good time. Research since the 80's and this paid Web class is as far as we have come? Hmmmm.
Uh, no. |
|
| |
|
| Ok..let's pass a law that all new boats have to have a built in hull /trailer decon. sprayer. Legacy boats will need a handheld version. Don't have one? The DNR does. They can charge $20 and a lecture. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | mnmusky - 10/2/2014 2:18 PM
Ok..let's pass a law that all new boats have to have a built in hull /trailer decon. sprayer. Legacy boats will need a handheld version. Don't have one? The DNR does. They can charge $20 and a lecture.
This doesn't even make sense. |
|
| |
|
| ^ Perhaps, but a Web class and extra $ doesn't either. curious of how many boaters don't know about AIS Already? you can't make and educate people to care.
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 880
Location: New Berlin,Wisconsin,53151 |
"This doesn't even make sense"
I hear you, the whole thing doesn't make sense to me either! If someone could give you a breakdown of where the money is going?
Go Pack.... |
|
| |
|
Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | mnmusky - 10/2/2014 3:01 PM
^ Perhaps, but a Web class and extra $ doesn't either. curious of how many boaters don't know about AIS Already? you can't make and educate people to care.
Many more than you'd think. Or they plead ignorance. However, with this program that excuse doesn't hold much water. |
|
| |
|
| If you can't educate and make people care, how has catch and release and larger size limits managed to work? These always face resistance, but managed to overcome it. There will always be complaining and violators with CPR and these new AIS rules and regulations, but most outdoors folks tend to be open to education and progression. |
|
| |
|
| Again, you can't make or educate people to care. They have to take it upon themselves to care. Its the few that dont care that cause all this and not lack of education. There always has and will be people who dont take care.This sticker is simply a revenue generator. It will do nothing to slow or prevent the spread. As I guarantee the research will show. Don't get me wrong, I'm all about education but, education has been in place for years and has not prevented the spread. If they truly want to stop AIS, way more than education, stickers, fines is needed. What that is, I don't know. Perhaps the sticker money will find a solution. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | How do you know education hasn't prevented the spread? With no education, perhaps every lake in Minnesota would be infested. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 572
| Nothing wrong in being educated. It just seems the way this is done is rather the wrong approach. If I lived in MN, I would be thinking of ways to get rid of those responsible for this act.
Of course, I sent an email to your dnr to express my concerns for merely wanting to travel through MN.
Sorry, I ever looked at this topic. It has an odor about it. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 158
| The sticker money isn't 'finding a solution' the prevention is in education. Would you prefer gates at the launches? |
|
| |
|
Posts: 8721
| I'm pretty sure education is the best hope we've got. There will always be people who don't care and refuse to take the time to do their part. But I believe there are a vast number of people who simply have no idea what AIS is or does, or how these organisms spread from one area to another.
If one person pulls all the milfoil off their trailer before moving to another lake who otherwise wouldn't have, that's an infestation that will not happen. If one person learns to identify rusty crayfish and decides NOT to capture them and use them as bait somewhere else, that's an infestation that will not happen. If there no discussions about this, would any of US know about it?
How many of you are now emptying your livewells when you never used to?
|
|
| |
|
| It's a physical problem that requires physical action. Education/awareness is good but does not solve the physical problem. Here's a scenario; I did the Web training paid the $, heard all the ads on the radio about AIS and got my sticker. Decide to fish Tonka. I let my boat run a ground on a bed of milfoil and lather up the hull with all the AIS Tonka has to offer. I then decide to hit Waconia as the fishing reports are better. I pull the boat out, check it over and all appears good but neglect to check the starboard side that's loaded with AIS because I was distracted by another boater. Being a Tuesday morning, no DNR at any of the launches that day. I dump in and do that to ten other lakes. Oops. Didn't mean to do that, nor did the 200 other educated boaters that day around the state. Stupid silly scenario, but all too real. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 32800
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Not if you are reasonably diligent as the law requires and in the scenario above, you would be begging a big ticket over here. The fine over here is quite hefty for ANY kind of weeds still on a boat, trailer, or motor on the highway. An Oneida County officer can and will issue the citation, it's a county ordinance and applies to everyone on the road, not just folks who live in Oneida County. I'm pretty darned careful, and perhaps would not be if the threat of a BIG fine wasn't there. If folks are educated and aware, and a fine is a real possibility, folks will pay more attention. I think MN just over-reached with the out-of-staters needing the sticker...there's no sticker or class for any of the conservation laws in fishing there...or in WI. But there is one heck of a fine if you break them, knowingly or not. Make the fine $385 a pop, issue a bunch of tickets, and BOOM, folks 'become aware'.
Not so easy to find a workable solution other than trying to dismiss the one in place out of hand, and that's avoiding the challenge. |
|
| |
|
| ^ well said Worrall and agree. How do the Oneida police enforce migrating pelicans with zebra muscles attached to them up there? Just curious. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | mnmusky - 10/2/2014 5:50 PM
^ well said Worrall and agree. How do the Oneida police enforce migrating pelicans with zebra muscles attached to them up there? Just curious.
Please find me one example of this.
The Wisconsin DNR has been doing a study of lakes with zero public access and lakes with public access. Any guesses as to which lakes became infested?
I'm not dismissing the possibility of this occurring, but research is saying it is not. Why are Canada and the Dakotas ZM free? Don't you think it would be in a lot more places if this were true? I do.
Migrating birds spend a great deal of time preening. Hanging weeds on a bird create drag and they aren't big fans of that. Any weeds attached to feet are likely to fall off during flight.
You're really making a case for why education is still needed.
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 32800
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | mnmusky - 10/2/2014 5:50 PM
^ well said Worrall and agree. How do the Oneida police enforce migrating pelicans with zebra muscles attached to them up there? Just curious.
First, no Pelicans here of any note, Second, that's just...well... |
|
| |
|
Posts: 8721
| mnmusky - 10/2/2014 5:50 PM
^ well said Worrall and agree. How do the Oneida police enforce migrating pelicans with zebra muscles attached to them up there? Just curious.
There is so much wrong with that question I don't even know how to respond... |
|
| |
|
Posts: 3472
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Guess I don't see this as much different tHan needing the proper I'd for a trip to Canada... Passport is what...$100 and must be renewed every 10 years? I wouldn't think twice on dropping that cash. $5 every 3 years to ensure I'm doing the right things, staying current on any new information/procedures that are out there...not going to let that be an issue either. I have to renew a teaching license, go through 125 clock hours of some sort of education time, then relearn about mental illness/cause/effect, a reading in the schools piece, write an essay and still pay $40... I do it because I have to.... Not because I want to, and do so willingly as it keeps me current.
Inconvenient? Sure...aren't they all? Take the test, pay the 1/4 of a double cow girl and your done with it. Skip the #3 meal at McDonald's and the price is covered. The only thing I would rather see in this is to have residents re-up at the time their boat registration comes due... One stop and done.
I'd suggest that for all watercraft in all states. Be a part of the registration process, and it covers.
Reality is we will never stop it fully, never catch everyon either, but if it slows the spread, it is worth it to me.
Off the pulpit now
Steve
Edited by VMS 10/3/2014 6:00 AM
|
|
| |
|
| VMS - 10/3/2014 5:58 AM
Guess I don't see this as much different tHan needing the proper I'd for a trip to Canada... Passport is what...$100 and must be renewed every 10 years? I wouldn't think twice on dropping that cash. $5 every 3 years to ensure I'm doing the right things, staying current on any new information/procedures that are out there...not going to let that be an issue either. I have to renew a teaching license, go through 125 clock hours of some sort of education time, then relearn about mental illness/cause/effect, a reading in the schools piece, write an essay and still pay $40... I do it because I have to.... Not because I want to, and do so willingly as it keeps me current.
Inconvenient? Sure...aren't they all? Take the test, pay the 1/4 of a double cow girl and your done with it. Skip the #3 meal at McDonald's and the price is covered. The only thing I would rather see in this is to have residents re-up at the time their boat registration comes due... One stop and done.
I'd suggest that for all watercraft in all states. Be a part of the registration process, and it covers.
Reality is we will never stop it fully, never catch everyon either, but if it slows the spread, it is worth it to me.
Off the pulpit now
Steve
Yes, the return of common sense. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 665
Location: Twin Cities, MN | First, don't count on nobody being at the boat launch on a week day, as when I pulled into a local TC metro lake last Monday, their was a MN DNR inspector waiting for me. I am not sure how long he stayed though, as I was the only person in the lot.
As a side note, I was nice enough to ask him if he wanted to see my boat plug out before I put it in which he thanked me for ....
I also saw that somebody got their boat pulled over by a random road side inspection stop and got a ticket here also. It will be interesting to see how that goes in court, as I seem to remember those are not constitutional for drunk driving, so it might be a bit tricky with random roadside boat inspections holding up unless they need to justify the 8 or so inspectors / officers time.
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | Pal - 10/3/2014 7:28 AM
First, don't count on nobody being at the boat launch on a week day, as when I pulled into a local TC metro lake last Monday, their was a MN DNR inspector waiting for me. I am not sure how long he stayed though, as I was the only person in the lot.
As a side note, I was nice enough to ask him if he wanted to see my boat plug out before I put it in which he thanked me for ....
I also saw that somebody got their boat pulled over by a random road side inspection stop and got a ticket here also. It will be interesting to see how that goes in court, as I seem to remember those are not constitutional for drunk driving, so it might be a bit tricky with random roadside boat inspections holding up unless they need to justify the 8 or so inspectors / officers time.
We clear all roadside checks with the county District Attorney. There are also tickets we can write that are close to impossible to fight.
We hear all the time that we have too many people at the checkpoint, but if we have two people there and 5 boats roll in, 3 of you are going to wait. Our goal is to get you out of there as quickly as possible. Keep in mind that all those people would be working that day anyway so there is no extra time being used. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 665
Location: Twin Cities, MN | My main question is are random roadside checks constitutional ?
I thought they were not constitutional for use against drunk driving, so how could they be OK here unless you can see weeds on a boat before requiring someone stop ?
Pal |
|
| |
|
Posts: 258
Location: Mayville, WI | Pointerpride102 - 10/2/2014 6:14 PM
Please find me one example of this.
The Wisconsin DNR has been doing a study of lakes with zero public access and lakes with public access. Any guesses as to which lakes became infested?
It is interesting how AIS show up in man made ponds w/ no boating access - even those without fish. Golf course ponds, stormwater, etc., places where you'd never expect it. How? That's unknown...
Education is a big part of it & as pointer said, this will give them no excuse of "not knowing." Though, for some people they just won't care. They already ignore all the signs at landings anyways, what's a sticker gonna do for them? People as a whole are idiots and I'm all for increased enforcement & citations which laws are already on the books for.
From the management side, it's come along further in the past 5 years than it has in the previous 50 - and there has been & will be some interesting ideas & trials, and WI / MN have been at the forefront of that. However, and that's a huge however, prevention is still a much much cheaper & better alternative than having to deal with it once established. If that means talking to people at landings, inspections, or online courses then so be it. They're not perfect, but they're far better sitting on your hands and saying "they'll be everywhere soon enough, so let us be!".
Pointer - any emphasis on hybrid EWM in MN? The new hot-topic going on in WI lately...
sc
Edited by scmuskies 10/3/2014 9:08 AM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | Pal - 10/3/2014 8:49 AM
My main question is are random roadside checks constitutional ?
I thought they were not constitutional for use against drunk driving, so how could they be OK here unless you can see weeds on a boat before requiring someone stop ?
Pal
Yes, they are. Law enforcement officers are not doing the inspections, which is part of how ours differ from DUI checkpoints. This is all cleared by the county DA well ahead of time. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | scmuskies - 10/3/2014 9:07 AM
Pointerpride102 - 10/2/2014 6:14 PM
Please find me one example of this.
The Wisconsin DNR has been doing a study of lakes with zero public access and lakes with public access. Any guesses as to which lakes became infested?
Pointer - any emphasis on hybrid EWM in MN? The new hot-topic going on in WI lately...
sc
A little, and I'm sure we'll be ramping up in that area a bit more. The bigger stuff on our radar are Hydrilla and the golden mussel.
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 665
Location: Twin Cities, MN | How about the Bighead carp getting caught in the St Croix, or has that shipped sailed ?.
I heard another 20 pound bighead was caught about a week ago although nary a mention about it from the MN DNR ..... that is not good for my favorite river |
|
| |
|
Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | Pal - 10/3/2014 9:23 AM
How about the Bighead carp getting caught in the St Croix, or has that shipped sailed ?.
I heard another 20 pound bighead was caught about a week ago although nary a mention about it from the MN DNR ..... that is not good for my favorite river
We have dedicated staff working on the bighead carp issue. I haven't heard any follow up on the most recent catch but I have a meeting next Tuesday where it will likely be discussed. The carp have been a concern for a while.
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 665
Location: Twin Cities, MN | Pointerpride102 - 10/3/2014 9:40 AM
Pal - 10/3/2014 9:23 AM
How about the Bighead carp getting caught in the St Croix, or has that shipped sailed ?.
I heard another 20 pound bighead was caught about a week ago although nary a mention about it from the MN DNR ..... that is not good for my favorite river
We have dedicated staff working on the bighead carp issue. I haven't heard any follow up on the most recent catch but I have a meeting next Tuesday where it will likely be discussed. The carp have been a concern for a while.
Thanks Mike.
Anything you can share out of that meeting would be appreciated. I fish the Croix quite a bit, so that is very big concern.
|
|
| |
