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Posts: 12
Location: western Ohio | Nice to know I can hang with the big names. However can they go a whole week fishless? I have done more than once, not to proud of that . In all reality it is had to fathom that many good anglers and not 1 fish. |
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Posts: 5874
| It's been tougher out there for a few years, especially if you are limited by tourney boundaries. Heard from more than one walleye angler questioning why muskiy guys can't run further. One of the strikes against judge boat tourneys. CRR would be an improvement, but then the cheaters would run rampant. |
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Posts: 32788
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Impossible to 'cheat' if it's done right. |
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Posts: 81
| CRR is the way to go and cheating would not be an issue. The cost of judges could go to better payouts. |
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| Impossible to cheat?!? Cheating is possible in any format(history proves that)! This was a 100% CPR format tournament and it would have been very easy to cheat! All tournaments rely on some level of honor and most have polygraph provisions. CPR format is cheap, better for fish, accepted by conservation groups and it allows anglers to get back to fishing faster. IMHO it's the best option despite the FACT it can be cheated! |
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| MuskyDew - 9/25/2012 11:13 AM
CRR is the way to go and cheating would not be an issue. The cost of judges could go to better payouts.
I disagree with cheating NOT being an issue, (or that it's impossible with judge boats) there will always be dishonest people trying to figure out a way to cheat when money is at stake. There has always been cheating, and there will always be cheating. Busy and holds true for the Large bass Tournaments, every few years you hear about another guy getting caught cheating.
Seriously, think in terms of what's possible on Green Bay. How hard would be to have somebody who's not in the tournament catch a fish out of bounds, then plant it with a float, or directly transfer it to a contestant inbounds. This type of scam was done about five years ago on Green Bay in several walleye tournaments. The thief stole tens of thousands of dollars and was able to keep all of it except for the last tournament where he got caught. |
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| Ben Olsen - 9/25/2012 12:19 PM
Impossible to cheat?!? Cheating is possible in any format(history proves that)! This was a 100% CPR format tournament and it would have been very easy to cheat! All tournaments rely on some level of honor and most have polygraph provisions. CPR format is cheap, better for fish, accepted by conservation groups and it allows anglers to get back to fishing faster. IMHO it's the best option despite the FACT it can be cheated!
It's funny that Ben and I basically came up with the same thought. The reason there are judge boats is because it's a known fact that people cheat, and judge boats will limit it to a degree. I agree there will always have to be some level of an honor system in place, unfortunately (under any system) the dishonorable will try to take advantage of the honorable whenever possible.
Did a contestant get caught with a false floor at a PMTT? That information is hard to come by, same with the walleye cheater because the people making money off of these tournaments do not want any of this type of publicity so it typically get swept under the rug quickly. I'm not saying they condone cheating, it's just bad business to really put the screws to somebody who is caught cheating. It's kind of a risk reward thing for the cheaters. They could have risked a slap on the wrist for a new Ranger boat at the PMTT. |
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Posts: 32788
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Jerry and Ben,
If CPR is done correctly, it's not possible to cheat (and get away with it) when considering the format. Sure, someone can get a fish from someone else or have one tied up somewhere, but that has nothing at all to do with the CPR format and a couple judge boats on the water the size of Green Bay's event or even the Cave wouldn't prohibit that sort of thing.
We were involved in scoring every AIM walleye CRR'd during the last 3 years, HUNDREDS of fish more than any muskie event would ever need registered, and zero issues or incidents. A couple fish were DQ'd due to mismatched written card/SDHC card data, in both cases mistakes. What we saw more than anything was undermeasure or reporting, not sure why. The protocol is very tight, and someone trying to mess around would be caught and DQ'd and it wouldn't be 'swept under the rug' either; that again has nothing to do with the format and everything to do with the Circuit.
If the entire format was put into place, the events would go to Pro/Am or Pro/Co. Another layer of security in place, not absolutely critical, but takes care of the non-image related issues. |
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| sworrall - 9/25/2012 12:50 PM
Jerry and Ben,
If CPR is done correctly, it's not possible to cheat (and get away with it) when considering the format. Sure, someone can get a fish from someone else or have one tied up somewhere, but that has nothing at all to do with the CPR format and a couple judge boats on the water the size of Green Bay's event or even the Cave wouldn't stop that.
We were involved in scoring every AIM walleye CRR'd during the last 3 years, HUNDREDS of fish more than any muskie event would ever need registered, and zero issues or incidents. A couple fish were DQ'd due to mismatched written card/SDHC card data, in both cases mistakes. What we saw more than anything was undermeasure or reporting, not sure why. The protocol is very tight, and someone trying to mess around would be caught and DQ'd and it wouldn't be 'swept under the rug' either; that again has nothing to do with the format and everything to do with the Circuit.
If the entire format was put into place, the events would go to Pro/Am or Pro/Co. Another layer of security in place, not absolutely critical, but takes care of the non-image related issues.
You're probably right about it not being swept under the rug but I guess it depends on the severity of the incident as well. I just did some checking online and it looks like these guys were felony charged.
http://www.parislanding.com/bass_cheaters_63006.htm |
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| Just wanted to say thanks for the coverage of all the events. I also want to thank Tim for all his hard work. This was the 5th time I have fished in the championship and even though we didnt boat a fish the fact that I got to fish it with my son this time was a lot of fun and something I wont forget. Doug Dible and John Dible |
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Posts: 999
| I wasnt aware that their was a max of one line per angler in this event. Just curious as to why the PMTT wouldnt go with whatever regulations the state requires for which water body they are fishing for the championship. |
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Posts: 1901
Location: MN | "...wouldnt go with whatever regulations the state requires for which water body they are fishing"
Really? Multiple lines, live bait, keeping fish, anything that's legal goes is what you would suggest? |
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Posts: 1220
| a few thoughts: It was the first time for me not qualifying after failing to catch a fish in either of the three qualifying events this year. It felt really bad too because I always try really hard, and in this particular event, I would have been tied for First from start to finish. But, like in probably ten other tournaments I will fish before the lakes have frozen...THE RULES ARE THE RULES! And you can fish all sorts of tournaments with almost any subset of rules you like. The Ironman events allow three lines per team and allow live bait, trolling and casting. They are a lot less "seriously" formal and cheaper to fish. The Pro-MAC events only allow 2 fish per team per day and only casting is permitted. The PMTT allows all the fish you can catch and if trolling is OK on the water being fished, it's OK to troll in those events. There are all sorts of Muskies Inc sponsored events where prize money is secondary or non-existent, more for a trophy, just for fun or to raise money for a good cause. Others like the Kevin Worral event you see talked about on this site specifically targets raising money for a deserving charity. While the real "junkies" (pathetic addicts) like me will go almost anywhere to fish almost any sort of format...the simple truth is that you can find what you like, fish those, and skip the ones with rules you don't like. I recognize that tournaments tend to stir up negative emotional response once in a while, but as a true addict familiar with the 12 steps and 12 traditions, I say what they say in the meetings, "Take what you want and leave the rest." Last, and about the cheating, this Green Bay event would have been the perfect time for a cheater....and there wasn't any. Sure, I like the judges and the inspections and the oversight, but the truth of the matter is that these are a really fine slice of people you meet fishing musky tournaments. Actually, I find them to be the single best group of people I know. And, as everybody who has seen my record this year knows.....I sure didn't come for the fishing!!!  |
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Posts: 999
| Yeah Propster REALLY! |
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Posts: 5874
| sworrall - 9/25/2012 12:50 PM
If the entire format was put into place, the events would go to Pro/Am or Pro/Co. Another layer of security in place, not absolutely critical, but takes care of the non-image related issues.
That would be the key difference. Pro/Co or Boater/Non-boater by draw. But I don't think that will ever happen in any of the current tours.
Edited by Shep 9/28/2012 3:30 PM
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