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Posts: 1425
Location: St. Lawrence River | I wonder if this guy is farmiliar with replicas. ? |
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Posts: 393
Location: Hopefully on the water | A few years ago I remeber a guide come across a couple of guys that caugth some large fish that they wanted to keep for a mount. This guide actually offered them money to put towards the replica of the mount and the guys that caught the fish took him up on it. Now I realize this is not something that any guide would want to promote (helping pay for a mount) but in this particular case it worked.
Maybe having a few pictures with you of some of the replicas you have or of other and if you could get a picture of a older skin mount you can show the guy the difference of how they look over time. |
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Posts: 25
| I know of a guide that will cover the cost difference between a skin mount and replica if a client wants to get a fish mounted, otherwise it is C&R only in his boat. He also has a size limit for this policy and the water that he guides has a higher limit, 50 inches I believe. I understand that this could quickly cut into a guides bottom line on lakes with lower limits, but it might be enough bait to get the guy in your boat with the hopes of educating him on the importance of C&R. |
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Posts: 2089
| Then a guy catches a sure State Record and gets heat from both sides.Of course both guide and client would be crucified for killing the beast. I always told clients they could keep any legal muskie they caught.......as long as they could swim back to the boat landing with it. Always got a chuckle. |
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| I don't think you need any coaching but the affirmation that you are doing things right is always good. I think you unquestionably handled the situation very professionally and ethically.
As an aside, as far as these other guides not putting him on fish because he wanted to keep one. Now that is extremely unethical!
I was fishing with a guide for a few days several years back and one morning we nailed 2 big fish back to back the conditions were perfect and the fish were growling but we were immediately taken away from his most productive areas so he didn't burn out his spots for his next group. IMHO, the guide was an idiot for doing this and thought we didn't know any better. I decided right then and there he would never get another dollar of mine and I quit referring him. |
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| Steve, just curious (and I'm definitely not trying to start something) but what if the giant fish you put in your live well a few years ago was determined to be a certifiable state record. Did you or your clients have any thoughts on keeping it back then? |
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Posts: 131
| I have a friend who would love to go muskie fishing with me . But his only objective is to put anouther trophy on his wall. I'm not talking about a record fish , a high 40's would do it for him , thats just the way it is . A quality picture or a replica just won't cut it . Heck he paid about 10,000 to shoot a treed mountain lion . We go back and forth all the time on this topic . He knows if I take him hes not going to be able to keep it and I'd love to put him on to a big fish . So as of now I just tease him with the pictures. Someday he will get it . well maybe |
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Posts: 1764
Location: Ogden, Ut | Guest - 4/2/2010 8:47 AM
Steve, just curious (and I'm definitely not trying to start something) but what if the giant fish you put in your live well a few years ago was determined to be a certifiable state record. Did you or your clients have any thoughts on keeping it back then?
When I visited w/ Jody later that summer after he caught and released that fish, he told me that he never intended to keep the fish. He was more interested in knowing 'exactly' what he had just done. I firmly believe that a piece of paper confirming it held no more power over him that the personal knowledge of his accomplishment.
S. |
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Posts: 2089
| Guest-
There was discussion about keeping the fish as it was indeed State Record class(Various formulas put the fish between 59 and 61#), but JODY made the decision to release her. We went through such lengths to care for that fish, I don't think keeping it was ever an option. Believe it or not, he took grief from people for NOT killing it. I took questions at the time because I had 100% C+R on my website and what would that mean if he had kept the fish. All water under the bridge and she still swims. I just feel blessed to have actually handled a near 60# fish, and one of the fondest memories of my fishing "career" was standing in the water with the fish and watching her swim away. |
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Posts: 1030
Location: APPLETON, WI | Steve:
That is awesome...!! |
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| >Now, I know the proper ethical answer, but I would like to know peoples honest opinion on this matter. <
OK…here it is. I do hire a guide from time to time on new waters, and I’m very clear on the importance of C & R. I’ve never kept a Musky to date. With that said, you’re free to run your business as you see fit but I would not hire a guide that had a rule of 100% C & R only. Because in the end I view that as a decision that is mine to make each time I’m out, not the guide’s.
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| I can certainly relate to wanting to know if it was in fact a state record or not myself too. It's even better that it was released, tip of the cap to Steve and Jody! Fish like that confirm that MN has larger muskies now than at any time in its history and everyone involved should be very proud of this accomplishment. |
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| Hawkeye, the answer is a very easy one. It is certainly your legal right but it is also the guides legal right not to accept your business unless you accept his 100% release policy. State or world records could complicate things but that's it in a nutshell.
It is obviously very important for guides to state this policy upfront so there is is no misunderstanding. |
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C&R only camps and guides are much more common in Alaska, Canada and within Trout country in the west. More and more common in muskie country now.
It very much is up to the guide whether or not clients keep fish.
It's up to the clients which guide they hire.
Guides and camps do it to keep the fishery they depend on to make a living worth fishing. Not only for the clients but for everyone else that utilizes the resource.
JS
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Posts: 2037
Location: lansing, il | I agree with Hawkeye. Its nobodys business to tell anyone else how to run their business as long as they are within the law. People guide for different reasons. Some guide to make a living and put food on the table for their family. They might take clients any way they can get them and if it means letting a guy keep a legal fish, he may not have the luxury of being able to refuse the 300 or so bucks for the day so he will let him. Others do it as part time income to help make ends meet. Some do it as a hobby because they are well off and can afford to spend the time doing it and dont really care if they make money, break even, or use it as a write off at the end of the year. so they can probably stand more firm on the ethics end of things and take a pass on customers that may not agree with the way they operate. I think it is kinda hard to say what a guy should or shouldnt do because everyone is in a different situation.
Personally i am all for 100% C & R of Musky and I think it is the way it should be. That is what i practice in my boat when I take people fishing with me. However I am not a guide or guiding for a living or hobby. Actually thats a lie, I am 99.999% C & R. If i were staring down a legit W/R, i honestly cant say what id do at that moment.
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Posts: 1207
Location: Pigeon Forge TN. | Everyone has a bunch of good advice for or against CPR.
Actually individual rights is what makes this Country. I, however, am like Jerry, No musky is kept from my boat either and that is MY right since it is my boat plus I respect the rights of the other boat owners. If you would want to keep one while I was fishing with you, that is your right and I don't have to agree but I would try to persuade the CPR.
I release all fish not just musky. Yes, I love to eat fish, but I buy mine in the restaurants or grocery store and that is my right. So we are all different. My self, if I ever catch a record holder, it too, will go back in the water. I will get a replica made and as long as I know what I caught that is all that matters. The fish took too long to get to that point and after surviving all the elements to get there than it deserves to die of old age.
My $0.02 |
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Posts: 59
| It should be a policy in every guides boat to release every fish I believe. I also think replicas look better and they last way longer.
Edited by Slim 4/2/2010 1:27 PM
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Location: Contrarian Island | a guide who is making a living off there being fish in a lake should not be taking fish out of the lake unless they are donating money each year to said lake for stocking.... how many guides that harvest fish can say they also put fish back in....i doubt too many.
I agree with everyone else, it is up to the guide (or really anyone who's boat it is, guide or not) to set the rules for what happens on the water...take it or leave it.
Edited by BNelson 4/2/2010 1:50 PM
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Posts: 2037
Location: lansing, il | I agree with you 100% Brad, If you are going to take, then you should put back. It only makes sense. However that is not for you or I to decide for someone else unless we want to spend the time and effort lobbying to make it law.
They may or may not even realize that harvest can possibly have an effect on the longevity of their own business as well. But again, is that for you or me to decide for anyone else, without knowing their situation or living in their shoes.
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| Slim - 4/2/2010 1:25 PM
It should be a policy in every guides boat to release every fish I believe.
I don't think there's any way to mandate 100%release with muskies even though it's long overdue with guides and their respective resource. All we can do as stewards of conservation is recommend that all guides seriously consider this as a better option than killing a trophy. I think records complicate this for a lot of people but the days of progressively keeping their personal best or 40lb trophy for mounting are a thing of the past.
For instance, in a perfect world every muskie guide would have this policy and there would be no picking and choosing by the customer based on whether they would they kill a fish or not Perhaps the leading muskie guides should consider some type of a association or partnership that addresses this. For sure a sticking point (for some) would be a record caliper fish having to be released. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | John, yes that is just my opinion and doesn't matter at all in the grand scheme of things but if a guide is going to harvest fish, and is making 250 to 500 bucks a day so there are fish in the lake it would be ethical to me they give money to stocking the lake they are making money off of, and taking fish out of......just an opinion of course.
it would be great if all guides were 99.9% c&r
Edited by BNelson 4/2/2010 3:01 PM
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| When you get right down to it, guides should be putting something back into the resource anyway. |
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Posts: 572
| interesting,,,,I have no problem with guides setting their rules as long as they are known up front.
As for camps, I wish they would all make it known up front that they have rules different from the government regulations. If they do, I have no problem either going by their rules or going somewhere else. Twice I have gone to a camp to find out after arriving that they had exceptions or rules different from the government regulations. One camp didn't want anyone to keep a northern pike over 35 1/2 inches, which could have been a problem if I had caught one.
Interesing enough to me, I didn't care for either camp owner who had special rules. So, why would I ever want to support them? |
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Posts: 2894
Location: Yahara River Chain | What I find amazing is that if two people totally agree, but one person has made the decision for the other, that is unacceptable. Am I missing something?
Edited by muskie! nut 4/2/2010 4:30 PM
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| You may be. Two people might agree to a point---if both are proponents of catch and release. But if one is 100% C & R, in ALL cases in his boat, then a second person who is not may not want to have that decision made for him ahead of time, and should probably fish out of a different boat. Perhaps the question is---DO they truly agree on 100% C & R? Or does one believe that C & R is good 99.9% of the time, but not absolutely inflexible. |
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Posts: 1030
Location: APPLETON, WI | How about if the customer doesn't like the guide's policies and procedures - he can continue to browse the Yellow Pages and find a different guide...? Seems pretty simple and logical to me. If the guide tells you up front that everything caught in his/her boat is 100% C&R... and you don't agree with it (for whatever the reason) then that's the end of the story. The fact that it's *legal* to keep a musky if it's over the legal limit has nothing to do with it. It's the guide's choice, it's their decision and it's their belief. |
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| I think it make sense for guides to decide to do only catch and release. They practice it themselves, it helps the fishery so that more people can catch larger fish and with the advent of quality replicas, there is not good reason to keep one to mount.
However, the one thing that should be done is to inform the client, before the trip, that it will be C&R only. Back about 20 years or so, my nephew, who was in his early teens got excited about fishing for muskies on the Chippewa Flowage, where his grandpa had a cottage. My brother in law was a walleye fisherman, so he hired a guide to take them out and teach my nephew how to fish for muskies. As luck would have it, he landed a beautiful, upper 40s fish. The guide took a quick photo, that didn't turn out, and released the fish. He had never mentioned to my brother in law that he only did C&R. He said he probably would have still hired the guide but he would have had a chance to explain to his son. As it was my nephew just sat and stared at the fish as it swam away. |
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Posts: 143
Location: Lake of The Woods | Guest - 4/2/2010 2:57 PM
When you get right down to it, guides should be putting something back into the resource anyway.
What would that be? |
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Posts: 208
| Guest - 4/2/2010 2:57 PM
When you get right down to it, guides should be putting something back into the resource anyway.
We all should be or what we take for granted today will ge gone tomorrow! |
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| Perhaps the people who hire guides should be putting something back in the fishery...if they would not hire them, there would be no guides....BR |
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