|
|
Posts: 692
Location: Pelican Rapids, MN | Now, I know the proper ethical answer, but I would like to know peoples honest opinion on this matter.
I received a call tonight from a gentleman looking for a guide trip. After chatting a while he was telling me about some of his guided trips on Vermillion, Leech, Bemidji etc. basically he has hit a good portion of HOT MN water.
He stated that 42 was his PB and he felt it wasn't large enough to hang. After a small bit of non-intrusive indirect questioning, he told me that each of the guides on said lakes were agreeable to him keeping a fish that he had caught on their outing.
When I told him my boat was 100% C&R he seemed taken back, and told me a story of his Vermillion guides thoughts on clients keeping fish - He said his guide's explanation was that he's not "HITLER" in his boat and if his client caught a fish it belongs to him. Which in essence is true as long as it's legal - But in today's scheme of things, I just thought every seasoned musky fisherman understood the importance of C&R. Maybe there is a silent part of this culture that isn't really into the conservation part, but his reaction as friendly and innocent as it was, it just seemed strange to me. |
|
| |
|
| I agree that it is his right to keep a legal fish if he catches it.
It is also your right as a business owner to deny him the opportunity to do so from your boat. If you feel strongly about the catch and release ethic, insist on it, openly and up-front - which I think you have done - and let the consumer choose whether he/she wants your services.
Let him get someone else to help him do it, or let him do it on his own. You can't stop him from doing it, but you don't have to help him, or make a profit on it either.
$0.02 |
|
| |
|
Posts: 182
Location: musky waters of SE, WI | If this guy fishes or fished all the big fish producing lakes you mentioned, will he continue to make trips to them after he catches his "wall hanger," always keeping one bigger than the last? He might be one of those guys looking to catch his one "giant" fish hes always been looking for, the one he'll put above his mantel, then once he gets it he wont really musky fish anymore. But i wouldnt understand if hes a guy that fishes skies all the time, you would think he would understand the importance of C&R. Idk thats what i was thinking. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 283
| this day in age I can't believe that there is actually guides out there that still let their clients keep fish. |
|
| |
|
| He's obviously doesn't understand the importance of releasing every muskie. If it wasn't for catch and release, we would all be catching sub 40" fish with very few over 40". The 48" minimum should help somewhat for guys such as this. I think you know the obvious answer that he is not welcome on the boat unless it's CPR only. I'm not a guide such as yourself, but friends new to the sport are told that all fish will be released in my boat. Got to drive the CPR mentality.
Edited by Baby Mallard 4/1/2010 9:56 PM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 143
Location: Lake of The Woods | pjvtrash - 4/1/2010 9:00 PM
I agree that it is his right to keep a legal fish if he catches it.
It is also your right as a business owner to deny him the opportunity to do so from your boat. If you feel strongly about the catch and release ethic, insist on it, openly and up-front - which I think you have done - and let the consumer choose whether he/she wants your services.
Let him get someone else to help him do it, or let him do it on his own. You can't stop him from doing it, but you don't have to help him, or make a profit on it either.
$0.02
Well said... |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2894
Location: Yahara River Chain | Ever think those other guides didn't put him on big fish knowning that he would kill it? |
|
| |
|
| Take him fishing (and the $$$$). If he catches one, use your conservation salesmanship for a release. If he keeps it, the Muskie Gods won't look upon you unkindly, however you'll make your wallet happy. Also take him to your taxidermist for a %...in this economy I think there's currently more muskies than dollars. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 31
Location: Fairfield, IA | Agree with the others. I am not a fishing guide but you need to stand firm on what you believe in. He can catch his wall hanger on someone else's boat. If he is that hungry for one, he will find a way to do it, it just doesn't need to be on your boat.
Dave.
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 3240
Location: Racine, Wi | pjvtrash - 4/1/2010 9:00 PM
I agree that it is his right to keep a legal fish if he catches it.
It is also your right as a business owner to deny him the opportunity to do so from your boat. If you feel strongly about the catch and release ethic, insist on it, openly and up-front - which I think you have done - and let the consumer choose whether he/she wants your services.
Let him get someone else to help him do it, or let him do it on his own. You can't stop him from doing it, but you don't have to help him, or make a profit on it either.
$0.02
Exactly! Jerry, I think you went the right route on that. If you're up front and explain your position, you can let them decide on whether or not you're the guy they want to book. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 720
| Baby Mallard,
He's obviously not a true "muskie fisherman" and doesn't understand the importance of releasing every muskie.
Wow, how's the view from up there.
|
|
| |
|
| The right thing to do, from a conservation standpoint, would be to relase your muskies. Nobody is questioning that. The "right thing" to do as a guide?
In my opinion, its "the best you can to encourage your clients to release their fish unharmed"
But let's be honest -- nobody is making a fortune guuiding. Even the BEST guides need every date, everey client, and every dollar, just to keep the boat running and the gear in one piece.
If it were me? I'd do everything I could to discourage harvest, promote replicas, and explain the rarity and age of a trophy class fish. And if a client chose to kill one? Well... Nobody said guiding was going to be easy. Your job is to educate and to put people on fish. What they do with them, as long as it is within the law? You might not like it, but harvesting a fish is a priviledge they paid for when they bought a license. They paid you $350 - $400 to take them out and catch that fish on toip of it. Tread lightly when you try to tell them what they can or can't do with that fish once they catch it. Don't forget -- you have a business to run, and it's the business that puts food on your table.
|
|
| |
|
| Who knows, maybe this guy will even read this thread, realize he is in the minority, and consider having a replica made instead of an actual mount.
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 692
Location: Pelican Rapids, MN | muskie! nut - 4/1/2010 9:11 PM
Ever think those other guides didn't put him on big fish knowning that he would kill it?
I concur there! Isn't it taking a step back.
I did tell him, I was surprised that there is a guide in todays industry that isn't 100% C&R.
I then told him to call me with some dates he would be interested in, but I would not allow a fish to be kept out of my boat - and if he chose not to fish with me I would understand. He was a very nice guy - just disconnected I felt.
Edited by Jsondag 4/1/2010 9:43 PM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 32805
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I wondered when someone was going to mention a replica. This fellow might not know they are available. |
|
| |
|
Location: SE Wisconsin | I think a replica would be an easy sell.
Edited by Sam Ubl 4/1/2010 10:21 PM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 1348
Location: Pewaukee, WI | As was mentioned, impress upon him that a replica would last longer then a skin mount. I fail to see why he wouldn't opt for a replica if a photo and measurements were provided to the taxidermist. As a guide you also have to be an educator at times. Impress upon him why good sportsmanship comes into play here.  |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1663
Location: Kodiak, AK | tuffy1 - 4/1/2010 10:14 PM
pjvtrash - 4/1/2010 9:00 PM
I agree that it is his right to keep a legal fish if he catches it.
It is also your right as a business owner to deny him the opportunity to do so from your boat. If you feel strongly about the catch and release ethic, insist on it, openly and up-front - which I think you have done - and let the consumer choose whether he/she wants your services.
Let him get someone else to help him do it, or let him do it on his own. You can't stop him from doing it, but you don't have to help him, or make a profit on it either.
$0.02
Exactly! Jerry, I think you went the right route on that. If you're up front and explain your position, you can let them decide on whether or not you're the guy they want to book.
And again, exactly! On a local LSC forum, muskie guys are often looked poorly upon for the "you must release all fish" mentality and jumping on someone for keeping a fish. As much as I (we) believe in C&R, if a guy buys a license and the fish is legal, he paid for the right to keep that fish if he wants to. At the same time, your boat, your rules. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1663
Location: Kodiak, AK | Jsondag - 4/1/2010 10:42 PM
He was a very nice guy - just disconnected I felt.
That's probably the perfect way to describe it. It describes my grandfather. He's been fishing for probably 70 years and to him, C&R isn't even on his radar. If it's a keeper, it's a keeper. Doesn't mean he doesn't care about the resource. It's just that he's not aware of the C&R ethos and about how widespread and beneficial it is....he's "disconnected." |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1529
| great topic. .its up to the guide service. growing up ,thru decades of shed wall heads nailed to red flannel gills in mounts that oil bled in a few years. we have come a looong way baby.it really is between the guide and fisherman period.. with the many great choices available and the cost of replacing fish in a water system to grow to trophy potential, i can see the moral, or ethical dilema.you can only do what your heart tells you. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 208
| Jerry,
I love the fact that you are CPR only but you can look at this a couple different ways.
First- If you refuse to take him out he's going to find somebody else who will and will also allow him to keep the fish if he choses to do so which bothers me.
Second- If you take him out you'll have many hours out in the boat to educate the fisherman on the importance of CPR, Replicas etc. which he may not get from someone else. You could actually look at this as an oppurtunity to save some fish long term vs. saving the one fish he may catch in your boat if he doesn't buy into your story.
|
|
| |
|
|
As a guide it's short sighted to condone or allow clients to kill fish.
There aren't enough trophies for everyone to take one home.
How many bookings will a guide be getting on MN waters when the 50"s aren't so numerous anymore?
Sooner or later the initial stockings that did so well will die off, keeping fish in the lake will be important for anyone in the guiding business.
JS |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1030
Location: APPLETON, WI | pjvtrash - 4/1/2010 9:00 PM I agree that it is his right to keep a legal fish if he catches it. It is also your right as a business owner to deny him the opportunity to do so from your boat. If you feel strongly about the catch and release ethic, insist on it, openly and up-front - which I think you have done - and let the consumer choose whether he/she wants your services. Let him get someone else to help him do it, or let him do it on his own. You can't stop him from doing it, but you don't have to help him, or make a profit on it either. $0.02 +1 to this. I don't agree with anyone keeping any musky. But he's not breaking the law either. It is his right but I don't feel you advising what you did is wrong. It's your boat and your beliefs and you have every right to stand by them. |
|
| |
|
| law and boat rules are two different things
take the $ and make sure he will get skunked |
|
| |
|
| Tell him to do us all a favor and go to cabela's and buy a mount he can put next to his 200 B&C buck he shot in a 40 acre fenced in ranch. I bet he could dream up a real good story to BS to his buddies about. |
|
| |
|
| Just tell you're selling the thrill of catching a big Muskie, not the carcass. If he wants a mount of it he can get a replica. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 136
Location: Chicago | Getting a large fish with a guide while it's fun and could be the largest fish you'll ever get, is not entirely of your own skills. So that to me is reason number one for releasing all guided fish. All you had to do is hang on and get it to the net. So along with your mount and if I get replica some time in the future there will be "guided by" on the plaque. So when your showing your fish off to people you can at least be honest. What you do with your fish on your time on the water while we don't always like it is still your right. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 692
Location: Pelican Rapids, MN | I agree that it is his right to keep a legal fish - but not in my boat - Just my policy.
I did inform him that I am close to a few replica taxidermists that are incredible artists and that if he did catch his trophy I could put him in touch with one of those guys. But then again, I was a child once and I wanted to "SHow my mommy what I caught" so I can sort of remember that mentality.
If you know me or have ever been a newbie in my boat, I have always tried to push replicas - Heck, I even keep a stack of Lax brochures in my boats glove box and when ever a fish is caught by a first timer or beginner, I hand them a brochure. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 3240
Location: Racine, Wi | NOFEAR - 4/2/2010 5:56 AM
Jerry,
I love the fact that you are CPR only but you can look at this a couple different ways.
First- If you refuse to take him out he's going to find somebody else who will and will also allow him to keep the fish if he choses to do so which bothers me.
Second- If you take him out you'll have many hours out in the boat to educate the fisherman on the importance of CPR, Replicas etc. which he may not get from someone else. You could actually look at this as an oppurtunity to save some fish long term vs. saving the one fish he may catch in your boat if he doesn't buy into your story.
That is a great point Nofear. You would have the chance to educate the person during the day, which may have a great impact, especially once they see how difficult it is to catch a big fish. They may appreciate the rarity and understand what special fish those big chicks are.
I know that I commonly have people say a similar thing, and it's amazing how many people actually understand after I send them to Lax's sight to look at the job he does (or many other of the guys making replicas) do. But, it can be a difficult sell at times. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 97
Location: Chaska MN. | The guides that i have fished with always had a C&R policy however they also said that if I landed a 60 in fish I could keep it and we would get it weighed, Now Im not sure IF I ever caught one that large I would kill it but I think that a person should have an option If it looks like a state record. If I were you I would stick to my guns and not waver on the C&R unless its a TRUE fish of a lifetime. |
|
| |
