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Muskie Fishing -> Tackle and Equipment -> Fluorocarbon Leader Knot ?
 
Message Subject: Fluorocarbon Leader Knot ?
Magic8Ball
Posted 6/4/2009 12:35 PM (#382211)
Subject: Fluorocarbon Leader Knot ?




Posts: 90


Location: Ohio

Hello

I want to make my own Fluorocarbon leaders, I have the stuff I need to make them but I need to know what Knot to use for tying the Snap and swivel onto the line? and what length, around here I have seen 16" - 30" Leaders but don't know what length for Crank Baits and Sledge Baits?

Palomar, Uni Knot ? or what knot do you guys reccomend ?

I looked in the FAQ section and did a search but couldn't find any info and then the search kept timing out so ANY help would be greatly appreciated.

Oh, I have 50 Lb Seaguar clear line, Ball Bearing Barrels and good snap loks, I just need the type of knot to use

Thank you very much

AWH
Posted 6/4/2009 1:19 PM (#382216 - in reply to #382211)
Subject: Re: Fluorocarbon Leader Knot ?





Posts: 1228


Location: Musky Tackle Online, MN
I can't help you with the kind of knot. I tried to tie my own a few years back and gave up since I couldn't get a good knot. So I handed those duties off to Stealth Tackle. I should have done that sooner! Length is a personal preference. But casting leaders tend to be about a foot. Some people like them a bit longer. I would highly recommend scrapping the idea of using 50 pound fluoro if you're using it for musky applications. You'll regret it eventually. I would double that at a minimum. This is where you'll run into more difficulty with a good knot as well.

Aaron
Jason Bomber
Posted 6/4/2009 1:22 PM (#382219 - in reply to #382211)
Subject: Re: Fluorocarbon Leader Knot ?





Posts: 555


http://leetauchen.com/lees_leader_knot.pdf

This knot works well, but I completely agree with Aaron that 50lb is far too weak. 100 is not super difficult to tie, but I have noticed the Gamma flouro in 100 is a bit harder to tie than Seguar.
curleytail
Posted 6/4/2009 1:27 PM (#382221 - in reply to #382211)
Subject: Re: Fluorocarbon Leader Knot ?




Posts: 1843


Location: Hayward, WI
I would use 130 Pound Seaguar at a minimum. I have been using 150 pound Seaguar, and have been using the knot that Jason linked. Even with 150 pound test, it isn't hard to tie at all. I have also been crimping the tag ends. It adds a little extra security and cleans up the tag end nicely.

curleytail
Sam Ubl
Posted 6/4/2009 1:34 PM (#382225 - in reply to #382211)
Subject: Re: Fluorocarbon Leader Knot ?





Location: SE Wisconsin
You'll get all kinds of responses here. I use 80lb Seguar as a mainstay for my leaders and I've never had one break. I've landed close to 15 muskies on one before deciding it was time to replace. Some say it's not strong enough, I'll say it is. I learned to tie that poundage from Neil Barnett who if anyone's framiliar with him, he's a common top finisher in most WMT events and overall a seasoned musky angler and great guy. He described the line to be sound after commenting on catching nearly 30 muskies on one before it looked shredded enough to switch up. I'm not condoning leaving a leader on for that long, I'd hate a big ski to live for a while dragging a lure around, but I'm simply saying, don't underestimate 80lb. It's easier to tie and more than strong enough.

Most importantly, it's up to the discretion of the angler, assuming he/she is responsible and cares for muskies as a resource, to make a sound decision and deem it neccessary or not to switch out or keep casting. I find that point crucial and take it seriously.

Edited by Sam Ubl 6/4/2009 2:45 PM
Jason Bomber
Posted 6/4/2009 2:01 PM (#382233 - in reply to #382211)
Subject: Re: Fluorocarbon Leader Knot ?





Posts: 555


Dont use 80 lb! It can and will break
IF you catch enough fish you will have problems. I used 80 lb for 1 year, and needed to change out leaders from being ruined in the net/teeth gouges etc... close to every 1/3 fish.
15 fish on an 80lb leader has to be an egzaggeration unless you count bass or don't net your fish.

Edited by Jason Bomber 6/4/2009 2:08 PM
Sam Ubl
Posted 6/4/2009 2:27 PM (#382239 - in reply to #382211)
Subject: Re: Fluorocarbon Leader Knot ?





Location: SE Wisconsin
As I've said, everyone has their own opinion. 80lb flourocarbon is nothing shy of thick - you should know. Their is hardly a recognizable difference between 100 and 80, just the sound that ignites lack of confidence in it's ability. This isn't a bragging board, so I won't go there, but believe me, I don't exaggerate.

Let me emphasize that while every fish puts a knick or five in the leader, it is plenty strong and has proved itself time and time again. I've caught fish that have struck with the recoil from the snap in it's mouth and while I consider the effects of the abbrasion, not every knick in the leader means it lost its strength. I'll also say that I've caught one fish on a leader and it has been damaged enough where I've deemed neccessary to change out, but more often than not, that's not the case.

I had to edit and add, by no means to I doubt the unwishful could happen, Guy stated a solid opinion below.

Edited by Sam Ubl 6/4/2009 3:04 PM
Jason Bomber
Posted 6/4/2009 2:35 PM (#382241 - in reply to #382211)
Subject: Re: Fluorocarbon Leader Knot ?





Posts: 555


I still DO NOT trust 80lb!

Edited by Jason Bomber 6/4/2009 2:40 PM
NateOz
Posted 6/4/2009 2:42 PM (#382245 - in reply to #382233)
Subject: Re: Fluorocarbon Leader Knot ?





Posts: 386


Location: North/Central WI
Buy a nail-knotter from Rollies. Costs about $13. Makes tying heavy poundage fluoro easy. I use it with 130lb Seaguar with good results.
Sam Ubl
Posted 6/4/2009 2:46 PM (#382248 - in reply to #382211)
Subject: Re: Fluorocarbon Leader Knot ?





Location: SE Wisconsin
There are more reasons for the poundage I choose then simply tying the knot. My main purpose revolves around weight more than anything, and flexibility as the next. My preferences, while they may stray from some others, is to have as little weight possible at the head of my lures for a number of reasons.

Edited by Sam Ubl 6/4/2009 2:48 PM
gmittlestadt
Posted 6/4/2009 2:55 PM (#382250 - in reply to #382248)
Subject: Re: Fluorocarbon Leader Knot ?




Posts: 18


I know I will catch a lot of hell for saying this, but it's just my opinion-again my opinion. All fluorocarbon should be banned. Steel is the only way to ethically fish for musky.
Sam Ubl
Posted 6/4/2009 3:01 PM (#382252 - in reply to #382211)
Subject: Re: Fluorocarbon Leader Knot ?





Location: SE Wisconsin
No hell should be given. You clearly have genuine care for the health of these fish, I know the feeling. More importantly, you have imposed an idea for me to ponder in all seriousness. I know that breakage happens, I don't want my luck to run out as it has for others. Good point.
esoxaddict
Posted 6/4/2009 3:48 PM (#382261 - in reply to #382211)
Subject: Re: Fluorocarbon Leader Knot ?





Posts: 5192


Sam, I went from 80# to 100# to 130#, and unless you're talking about something the size a 6" jake or a #5 Mepps, I've noticed no difference in the flouro affecting the action of my lures. It's neutrally buoyant, so about the only thing that would add any weight would be the big #5 Stay Lok snap. And in that case, where weight is an issue, you can jsut use a #7 bucher split ring instead of a snap.
Landry
Posted 6/4/2009 4:13 PM (#382265 - in reply to #382261)
Subject: Re: Fluorocarbon Leader Knot ?




Posts: 511


I use 80# and it is the best (IMO) but does not stand up in the long term as well as 100. It is easier to work with and is far less visible in my opinion. The thicker 100# takes on an opaque look due to its thickness. I use a saltwater flyfishing loop knot, trim it and then put a covering of 5 minute epoxy over the knots to keep them snug and make them smooth so no weeds catch on the tag. So far - 3 years, lots of muskies up to 48" and not one failure or near failure. Were I fishing in Georgian Bay or Vermillion... I would likely choose the 100#.
Landry
PIKEMASTER
Posted 6/4/2009 5:02 PM (#382270 - in reply to #382211)
Subject: RE: Fluorocarbon Leader Knot ?





Location: Latitude 41.3016 Longitude 88.6160
I use #130 flurocarbon leaders, I think of them like my underwear, you should change them every 2-3 days !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! U should Not use #80 test, most pro's use STEALTH 130LB test !!!!!!!!!!

Edited by PIKEMASTER 6/4/2009 6:44 PM
Top H2O
Posted 6/4/2009 5:44 PM (#382278 - in reply to #382270)
Subject: RE: Fluorocarbon Leader Knot ?




Posts: 2410


Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion
130lb. Crimped with double barrell crimp than melted on end... never a pull thru, and has been working for a while now.

Jerome


Zoom - | Zoom 100% | Zoom + | Expand / Contract | Open New window
Click to expand / contract the width of this image
(130LB Flro leaders [640x480].jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments 130LB Flro leaders [640x480].jpg (58KB - 56 downloads)
Magic8Ball
Posted 6/4/2009 6:08 PM (#382283 - in reply to #382219)
Subject: Re: Fluorocarbon Leader Knot ?




Posts: 90


Location: Ohio
http://leetauchen.com/lees_leader_knot.pdf

I looked at this knot and I will give this knot a try, I will get heavier line tomorrow when I get into town
Thanks to all who gave me advice and help
muskiewhored
Posted 6/4/2009 6:26 PM (#382286 - in reply to #382211)
Subject: Re: Fluorocarbon Leader Knot ?





I thought wire was actually worse, if you dont break off. Of course any break off is horrible, but if it doesnt wire will hurt a fish more than Floro.
Magic8Ball
Posted 6/4/2009 6:31 PM (#382288 - in reply to #382286)
Subject: Re: Fluorocarbon Leader Knot ?




Posts: 90


Location: Ohio
I have some Wire Leaders but was told years ago when I fished for Pike that the fish can see a wire from a mile away?
We also caught many Pike with 12 Lb Mono back when me, my Brother and friends were 11 years old.
Maybe I will try Wire and Fluorocarbon and see how they both work out ?
luckymusky
Posted 6/4/2009 9:59 PM (#382313 - in reply to #382288)
Subject: Re: Fluorocarbon Leader Knot ?




Posts: 615


Location: cleveland ohio
i used to crimp til i found that lee tauchen knot.... easy to tie and tough..it s the cats ass..!
dh buc
Posted 6/5/2009 4:45 PM (#382429 - in reply to #382245)
Subject: Re: Fluorocarbon Leader Knot ?




Posts: 109


I second the use of a nail-knot. Never had a problem and I use 80lb. test.
Sam Ubl
Posted 6/9/2009 3:32 PM (#382960 - in reply to #382211)
Subject: Re: Fluorocarbon Leader Knot ?





Location: SE Wisconsin
I moved up to 100lb over the weekend. Everyone happy? Pikiemaster, can I be a "pro" now??????????? A good look over your leader can be the ultimate judge as to whether or not you change out your leader!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! K-enough with the intensity, WOW Pikemaster.

esoxaddict
Posted 6/9/2009 4:48 PM (#382964 - in reply to #382960)
Subject: Re: Fluorocarbon Leader Knot ?





Posts: 5192


Sam Ubl - 6/9/2009 3:32 PM

I moved up to 100lb over the weekend. Everyone happy? [...]


Well, that depends on what brand it is, if you used the right knot, the right crimping tool, the right sleeves, and the right snaps/swivels/solid rings/split rings...

And it depends on whether you super glued the knot jsut to be safe, did you check your guides, is your underwear the right color is the sunlight reflecting off the water at just the right angle and are your shoes tied the right way...

Jeez Sam -- you of all people should know there's only one right way to catch a musky, and there's at least 100 things that you can screw up along the way, which means that you really have no idea what you are doing...
kumbaya
Posted 6/9/2009 5:12 PM (#382978 - in reply to #382211)
Subject: RE: Fluorocarbon Leader Knot ?


i feel a song
PIKEMASTER
Posted 6/9/2009 5:23 PM (#382982 - in reply to #382211)
Subject: RE: Fluorocarbon Leader Knot ?





Location: Latitude 41.3016 Longitude 88.6160
Unless U are casting small baits and the leader will steal some of action of the bait, why risk a break off ?????????? and kill a musky ??????????? I have been using 130# F/C leaders and trying out some 150# and 180# this week, I hate to see a musky killed because the leader broke. As far as weight goes U are talking grams, so I don't get the weight thing ????? A 50" plus musky is a fish of a lifetime so why put that musky at risk with a 80# leader????? My main line is 80# and 100#, for any bait over 4oz I use 100# line and my small baits under 4oz I use 80#test line so break offs are very very rare for me. Here is a step by step how I make my F/C leaders, go to http://www.ofncommunity.com/forums/index.php?automodule=blog&blogid...

Edited by PIKEMASTER 6/9/2009 5:41 PM
Magic8Ball
Posted 6/9/2009 5:39 PM (#382988 - in reply to #382982)
Subject: RE: Fluorocarbon Leader Knot ?




Posts: 90


Location: Ohio
Geeshhhhhhh all this from my Knot Question ?
I looked at the PDF of the Lee Tauchen Knot, I couldn't figure that Knot out, his fingers were covering the Pic up, I had it close but it just wasn't turning out right.
I know it is something simple I am missing too.
PIKEMASTER
Posted 6/9/2009 5:46 PM (#382993 - in reply to #382211)
Subject: RE: Fluorocarbon Leader Knot ?





Location: Latitude 41.3016 Longitude 88.6160
Lee Tauchen knot is called a CENTAURI KNOT go to http://www.fishing-khaolak.com/knots/centauri.html for step by step how to tie. or http://www.ausfish.com.au/knots/ for a animated step by step.

Edited by PIKEMASTER 6/9/2009 11:05 PM
OscarTFish
Posted 6/9/2009 7:23 PM (#383017 - in reply to #382993)
Subject: RE: Fluorocarbon Leader Knot ?




Posts: 75


Location: NEW
This is my favorite knot website
http://www.marinews.com/Centauri-Knot-317.php
Magic8Ball
Posted 6/9/2009 7:27 PM (#383018 - in reply to #382993)
Subject: RE: Fluorocarbon Leader Knot ?




Posts: 90


Location: Ohio
PIKEMASTER - 6/9/2009 6:46 PM

Lee Tauchen knot is called a CENTAURI KNOT got to http://www.fishing-khaolak.com/knots/centauri.html for step by step how to tie. or http://www.ausfish.com.au/knots/ for a animated step by step.


Went to the first site listed and I figured it out, thank You for the links
boost
Posted 6/10/2009 1:23 PM (#383136 - in reply to #382211)
Subject: Re: Fluorocarbon Leader Knot ?




Posts: 40


Location: Canada, Eh!
Any of you have experience with the Perfection Loop with 130#+ fluoro? Or any other "loop" style knot for leaders.

http://www.ausfish.com.au/knots/perfectionloop.shtml



Edited by boost 6/10/2009 1:24 PM
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