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Posts: 117
Location: Cheyenne, WY most of the year | Excerpt from Muskies on the Shield. I'll delete if asked to, but everyone should have a copy of this book.
"What I've found on deeper reefs is that making progressively
wider passes around the reef is often necessary in order to reach fish
holding off the reef itself. On the first pass, with two people in the
boat, one person should throw at the reef in a conventional
manner, while the other person throws parallel to the reef and
out away from the reef. A second pass should then be made with the
boat farther out from the reef, about where the casts from the first
and occasionally pass were landing"
I'm confused with this method. Would this cause fish to spook? Would starting off 2 cast lengths off the reef for the first pass, then a closer 1 cast length, and finally maybe even a third to cast the top of the reef be better? Trying to improve my approach to reefs this year... thanks! |
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Posts: 1194
| Dickp is a regular poster, so perhaps you can hear it from the horses mouth, With that said look at his track record. Sure theirs more then one way to skin a cat he's really good at it |
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Posts: 3779
| Yep, he's an original master. I'm curious how he would manage a reef now that we have spot lock technology with our trollers. What say you, Mr. Pearson? |
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Posts: 2280
Location: Chisholm, MN | Basically you are targeting open water fish that happen to be near a deep reef. They slide up and off the reef throughout the day. You will definitely put your bait in front of more fish the way he is describing but as far as spooking them - you have no idea where those fish are unless you're good with electronics. So you may spook fish no matter where you start casting. But really, does it matter that much? If the fish is hot, you can catch it. If it's not, you probably will never know it was there without electronics. How would you know if a fish is sitting on the reef, or 2,3,4,5 cast lengths away from the reef? A couple kicks of the tail and they are 50 yards away. There are no rules to where they are roaming. They are free to go where they please...and they do.
I find that fish don't just sit and hang in a specific spot as much as we think they do. They are often roaming around a reef. By only casting the reef you are potentially missing out on way more fish than if you casted the open water around it as well. Just start casting.
Edited by Kirby Budrow 6/9/2023 9:00 AM
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Posts: 1194
| And if you catch one, see one with your eyes, or electronics, or even schools of bait, save that icon, or in rental boat like me mark your map because those fish will use the same area over and over. And besides reefs they used the contour of the basin. |
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Posts: 1194
| And I almost forgot this is one time to use long casts, big baits and lots of jerks and pauses. And great place to use a countdown lure. And keep your lures above the fish. And if you don't want to spook fish BE QUIET! |
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Posts: 8719
| They are easier to find catch when they are inhabiting a reef in the way we normally think of - tucked up in the rocks, relatively shallow, with us casting up into shallow water. If they aren't there (or we don't move one) it doesn't mean they aren't still relating to that reef. They can and often do hang out a cast length or two off the structure. They are easier to catch when they're tight to the structure, though. They've got nowhere to go and you know your casts are going over their heads. Probably smarter to go after the easy ones first and then move off the reef than to start 50 yards away from where the fish are. |
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Posts: 1971
| Kirby post is pretty accurate, Dick is describing a reef that tops out at say 15-20 feet ….Boat might be in 45’ the first pass and 150’ as you go around again… when you have 10-20’ of water clarity fish can obviously move long distances for a bait when they want to. This is not typical fishing for most ..I love it
Edited by IAJustin 6/10/2023 5:37 AM
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Posts: 306
| Hi.Saw this yesterday but was on a ball buster 14 hour round trip to retrieve my previously damaged MIA boat from a dealer in another State,then drop it off at a different dealer to get it repowered.Ordeal but getting closer to getting 2 fishing.
Good question and all good answers above.
A threshold point:this book was written 24-25 years ago based on my experiences going back 30 years or so before that.Before I saw few,if any, fishing deep reefs-or any reefs or even rocks at all for that matter.Pre GPS mapping(no 'tracks' or 'waypoints'),pre anything but basic rock/rope gen 1 electronics,and pre anything resource wise around to work off on the subject.This is not to say I would necessarily approach or fish that structure differently today,I don't in most instances,but today I am aware of more variables that apply and which could change my approach at times.Honestly a book could and should be written on this and the variables.Will touch on briefly.
Trout water in most instances has vast open water areas of sterility.More depth,less bait,less structure,fewer muskies and therefore 'contact' with fish must be more focused in order to keep ones sanity.IMO when u are approaching a reef there your odds of contact are much better on or VERY near to the hard structure itself.Go for the jugular!!!
Variables:Well first may be depth,both of the reef but also,and importantly,the depth of any bait u are seeing or have seen that day nearby.That should suggest the most likely location of the fish be it on or near or way off deeper.
Next what are your electronics showing as u approach-that may suggest varying your approach.
Weather?A huge variable,I think the hugest,which will almost always tell you if they are tight to the reef.If post front,the opposite is more likely which may well make me start deeper and further away.
Wind?If windy now,or more importantly if we've had big blows the previous day or 2 the MUCH more likely I will go for the jugular cause the much more likely the reef will be an area of 'chaos/turmoil' that invariably attracts preds.Likely the reef becomes an attracting 'gemstone' in that sea of sterilty.
I'd better quit-#*^@ I luv this stuff.To end,I'm sure various approaches work but this addresses mine.
Forgot-yes Ranger spot lock should/will likely change things.Sadly I'm 'lazy' by virtue of age nowadays so don't fish trout often but it clearly would up ones game in thoroughly and more quietly,efficiently covering the reef itself as well as the surrounding water.Dream fishing nowadays in the sense that side scanning alone would ease the true agony of wondering what u are missing as u wander around 'out there'.I'm sure its incredible as to the fish I've missed over the years and really incredible as to the hours I've spent casting at sterility.
Summerschool,sorry for the 'windy' response but...Good fishing to you sir! |
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Posts: 536
Location: deephaven mn | do apprecitate you direct response to the post Dick as you metioned side imaging pass does add more clues to fish where abouts. Summer School was conserned about spooking fish as in backing off and the casting to where yout boat was.
legitamit concern especially in clear water. My thought is to make the deper pass first and then work your way in.
Have had succes on different bodies of water doing this. or start away from stucture and drift in it may give you a clue that fish are off stucture and you need to be backing off. |
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Posts: 1194
| Going back to last year, Do we strain the water by casting or driving around looking at the Dept finder? |
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| Thank you, Dick, excellent info. |
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Posts: 206
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota | I fish vermilion 2-4 weekends a month and have definitely changed how I fish reefs in the past few years. When I started I would just go a cast length off of them, burn baits over the top, and then on to the next one. Depends on how fast I’m trying to move but if it’s a reef I’m trying to pick apart I will usually do it in 3 stages. I’ll start about 2 cast lengths off of it and fish just like I do open water fishing in June, big rubber/beavers/ 10” twitch baits in the top 5’ or so of the surface, and cover the open water surrounding the reef, casting towards and away from the reef. I’ll then move the boat closer and then fish lower in the water column around the drop offs of the reef, really like a tube, bulldawg, or heavy beaver for this. Last I’ll get closest and fish a bucktail or anything quick and shallow over the top of it. Last year I picked up fish and got follows in all of those 3 stages. Now granted vermilion is a shield lake but it’s not super clear and it’s MN strain fish so could be different than the Canadian trout lakes you guys are describing |
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Posts: 72
| Ogandrews - 6/11/2023 4:49 PM
I fish vermilion 2-4 weekends a month and have definitely changed how I fish reefs in the past few years. When I started I would just go a cast length off of them, burn baits over the top, and then on to the next one. Depends on how fast I’m trying to move but if it’s a reef I’m trying to pick apart I will usually do it in 3 stages. I’ll start about 2 cast lengths off of it and fish just like I do open water fishing in June, big rubber/beavers/ 10” twitch baits in the top 5’ or so of the surface, and cover the open water surrounding the reef, casting towards and away from the reef. I’ll then move the boat closer and then fish lower in the water column around the drop offs of the reef, really like a tube, bulldawg, or heavy beaver for this. Last I’ll get closest and fish a bucktail or anything quick and shallow over the top of it. Last year I picked up fish and got follows in all of those 3 stages. Now granted vermilion is a shield lake but it’s not super clear and it’s MN strain fish so could be different than the Canadian trout lakes you guys are describing
This is how i like to fish the classic troutwater reefs too. Staying way off fan casting always seems to work for our group. Unfortunately my boat partner and I tend to not see eye to eye on this and he'll run us right on top of it with the trolling motor, but that's another story....
Our favorite time for reefs is late July and early August on the trout water lakes as well. This is a very unpopular opinion, but our best days have been high skies mid day as well. My friend hooked(but lost) a 50" fish on the upper Manitou last August. It was like 1 in the afternoon, no clouds, and no wind. I also had a mid 40's smoke a medussa in the same conditions that day(not sure how I didnt hook it). Others in our group have experienced the same thing. Maybe its just coincidence, but we've had enough success to notice. Biggest in our group is a 51x23 pig off a deep water reef once again mid day with no clouds.
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Location: Walker, MN | Yes, seems like a mighty fine approach on cisco waters as well...heck...even a weed hump on a couple hundred acre lake with sunfish present. Great info! |
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Posts: 306
| Yes,good stuff here. Prolly is no wrong way as long as u appreciate the possibilties and 'cover 'what u intend 2.
I sense some may think I was blowing in n casting the top.Far from it.Read the quote carefully.One casts in,one covers front and out.No missed areas,no spooking inherent in the approach that is more than any other approach.In my day,pre 'modern electronics',it was clearly the best to avoid spooking fish while thoroughly covering your intended area..One 'found' the reef with a slow approach,fished it and a cast out knowing where and what you were covering.Any other way to start was a 'guess' at best as to precisely where the reef itself was.A VERY different world. |
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Posts: 306
| Edit:Funny but an old friend just made a suggestion.To truly consider my approach,shut off your electronics except 2D and 'run' the reef.If alone in the area we did cheat though.Often would mark tips or ends of reefs with 'floaters'(bobbers or twigs)while on the lake.
Edited by dickP 6/12/2023 6:54 AM
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Posts: 357
| mega 360 is the real deal for reef fishing. Reefs never seem to be completely accurately layed out in mapping. With 360 now days you can tactically pick those reefs / rock bars apart without accidently running over the kicker point that was not on a map. Don't really have to worry about blowing a fish out this way.
Run a 360 with FFS and you can do in one pass. Accurately pinpoint cast the structure and scan the open water. |
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Posts: 1194
| Go primitive electronics off, Trolling motor off, sun is good the fish can see our lures from farther away.
In Canada a lot of the reefs are marked. I'm a big fan of fishing out in the middle of nowhere. If you look at the old days no one had dept finders or trolling motors. People row trolled in the middle of nowhere. And huge fish smashed primitive tackle.
Lake Of The Woods gives up plenty of 50" Muskies from people beating the shores. Does anyone fish off structure up there? We've marked reefs with O.J. bottles and all that but you really don't have to, If you know the general area of a reef go up wind drift across. As a group we don't catch as big of fish as we should. I'm a fan of giving up action and fish for a giant. |
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Location: Chisholm, MN | chuckski - 6/12/2023 8:10 AM
Go primitive electronics off, Trolling motor off, sun is good the fish can see our lures from farther away.
In Canada a lot of the reefs are marked. I'm a big fan of fishing out in the middle of nowhere. If you look at the old days no one had dept finders or trolling motors. People row trolled in the middle of nowhere. And huge fish smashed primitive tackle.
Lake Of The Woods gives up plenty of 50" Muskies from people beating the shores. Does anyone fish off structure up there? We've marked reefs with O.J. bottles and all that but you really don't have to, If you know the general area of a reef go up wind drift across. As a group we don't catch as big of fish as we should. I'm a fan of giving up action and fish for a giant.
People fish the reefs up there. Less people for sure but they do. Why would you not want electronics though? |
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Posts: 1194
| I stand corrected people fish reefs just not open water. As far as electronics go fish hear them the 54" might not care but maybe 62" does? Am I overthinking this? YES, Kirby I think you fish Vermillion a lot and all the reefs are marked and even the channel marker are lighted for those of us who like to fish after dark. I fished Vermillion for a week each fall from 2016-18 and fished all kinds of great looking water hired a guide for one day on the last trip and got my butt kicked. There are fish to be caught if you have good electronics 24 volt or 36 volt trolling motor (point the bow into the wind and with good boat control) I tried renting boats that had the good trolling motors and after a couple hours no power what's so ever.
I know at times I'm looking for a needle in the hay stack or something that does not exist. Or how many times on a smaller Minnesota or Wisconsin Lake do we pull up a fish a Weedbed and after I leave someone else fishes the same Weedbed like a big Merry-go-round. Maybe I've read too many Sea Monster stories. |
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Location: Chisholm, MN | chuckski - 6/12/2023 10:21 AM
I stand corrected people fish reefs just not open water. As far as electronics go fish hear them the 54" might not care but maybe 62" does? Am I overthinking this? YES, Kirby I think you fish Vermillion a lot and all the reefs are marked and even the channel marker are lighted for those of us who like to fish after dark. I fished Vermillion for a week each fall from 2016-18 and fished all kinds of great looking water hired a guide for one day on the last trip and got my butt kicked. There are fish to be caught if you have good electronics 24 volt or 36 volt trolling motor (point the bow into the wind and with good boat control) I tried renting boats that had the good trolling motors and after a couple hours no power what's so ever.
I know at times I'm looking for a needle in the hay stack or something that does not exist. Or how many times on a smaller Minnesota or Wisconsin Lake do we pull up a fish a Weedbed and after I leave someone else fishes the same Weedbed like a big Merry-go-round. Maybe I've read too many Sea Monster stories.
Yeah I live near vermilion so that's where I fish. I was really answering your question about canada though. Those fish out in the middle of nowhere are fairly unpressured so I wouldn't worry about electronics scaring them. As far as vermilion - those fish have seen it all and I think they can be turned off by electronic although that's not proven. Vermilion is a very tough lake to crack. I try to plan my days around perfect weather. That's why so many people fail miserably when they go up there for a week. They might not have decent weather and end up not having good success. How many times have you seen the post about someone either on vermilion or just got back from their 7 day trip and never even saw a fish? So many! You can't go up there and expect action when you don't plan around the weather. It has to be the perfect conditions to succeed or at least have a good trip. This is off subject though so I'll stop 
Edited by Kirby Budrow 6/12/2023 10:59 AM
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Location: Selkirk, Manitoba | dickP - 6/10/2023 7:06 AM
Trout water in most instances has vast open water areas of sterility.More depth,less bait,less structure,fewer muskies and therefore 'contact' with fish must be more focused in order to keep ones sanity.IMO when u are approaching a reef there your odds of contact are much better on or VERY near to the hard structure itself.Go for the jugular!!!
Wind?If windy now,or more importantly if we've had big blows the previous day or 2 the MUCH more likely I will go for the jugular cause the much more likely the reef will be an area of 'chaos/turmoil' that invariably attracts preds.Likely the reef becomes an attracting 'gemstone' in that sea of sterilty.
I'm generally on a shorter timeline so tend to go with these concepts for how I spend time on big open water reefs.
I'll add that the bigger open water reefs that folks are hammering walleyes on constantly generate their own sort of turmoil... This also makes them easier to approach given muskies accustomed to the boat traffic, trolling motors, etc.
Edited by Angling Oracle 6/14/2023 12:23 PM
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Posts: 35
| This was one of the best muskie posts I've ever seen here. Great content and no right or wrong. In muskies there usually never is. I leave for Canada next week on the 22nd for 9 days and this was all great advice. Keep an open mind to it all. If you do, you never know what will happen. Thanks to everyone on this one. Good content by all... |
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Posts: 8719
| Guzzler, I hate to rain on your reef parade, but at this time of the year you'll probably be fishing a lot more shallow weeds and points adjacent to the shallow spawning areas. We don't usually see muskies moving out to the mid lake reef/rock structures just yet. I hear it's been stupid-hot up there though, so who knows...
Dick, I had to laugh when I re-read your post. Reminds me of when we used to tie on a bell sinker, cast it, and drag it along the bottom to "feel" what sort of substrate we were fishing... I guess that was a few years ago now, but man we thought we were smart! |
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Posts: 35
| Thanks esoxaddict, I get that. Sorry I did not necessarily mean reef fishing when the weather warms up and fish generally move deeper. We are certainly hoping for our normal shallow water patterns we have had over the last 30 years of going to the lodge we stay at. But every year is different. I am expecting this year to be different too. Last year we had extremely high water and we switched tactics and caught a lot of good fish. I was just stating that an open mind is good when going to Canada. There was a lot of really good info in that post and excellent ideas were shared as how a piece of structure should be run. Good luck this year and keep passing along good info. |
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Posts: 8719
| I'm jealous, Guzzler! We usually go up during the "transition time" when they're out on the rocks one day, cold night pushes them back into the shallow stuff, hot day pushes them back out, back and forth back and forth weeds, rocks, weeds, rocks... I guess it's more fun that way, but I've always wanted to go up early in the season when you know where they should be at least. |
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Posts: 1194
| If there's a layer of warm water on the surface at the start of the season the baitfish and the Muskies will be there and throw your full sized lures at them! One of the best open water bites all year and under rated. |
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Posts: 306
| Sorry got behind on this. EsoxA believe me i hear u!
Old times(and timers)are often hard to understand and/or convey to others. Fact of the matter is at times one struggled to find the reef itself and doing so required having shore,islabd or assorted fixed markers to libe up. Often multiple slow passes to make contact. The bigger and deeper the water.the harder to find.
Not just in Canada either. For instance on leech there were very few peopke who could drive to Submarine or other reefs - particularly in rough water. You needed multiple reference points such as points,towers or lights in the distance etc. A totally different world.
Canada soon??Good fishing 2 all!!! |
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Posts: 1186
| Or trying to find a mud flat on Mille Lacs. I remember using a compass, paper map, and guessing how far you traveled, by estimating your speed, and how long you've been at speed. Not much to triangulate with when you only have a sliver of one shoreline, and the rest is all just water. |
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