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Location: Athens, Ohio | In a lame duck session a couple weeks ago, the Repub-led legislature passed a revision to a law that now REQUIRES (formerly 'allows') any state agency (ODNR) to lease land for fracking. There are NO public comment requirements in the law, which our Gov never should have signed.
Salt Fork state park is one of the state's largest and sits in the midst of a three county oil and gas pocket. It's got prime sized muskies in the lake and clean watersheds.
Right now there is a rule being considered to require at least a public notice - still not a comment period where the agency has to account for its action.
Muskie stocking program lakes like West Branch, Cowan, Cesars Creek and a few other parks could be next. I'm thinking muskies won't like the noise much. m
https://www.nbc4i.com/news/local-news/columbus/odnr-tackles-fracking...
Edited by mikie 2/2/2023 5:49 PM
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Posts: 64
| Unfortunately money talks. PA has been destroyed by the fracking and even on public lands. Wish more states would have put a moratorium on it like NY did so early. Best decision they could have made to keep their wildlife and habitats healthy. |
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Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Really ?? Huh ?
Do you guys actually believe that Fracking is going to kill your Muskies?
Ban all fishing worldwide if you want to protect the fish.
I wonder how many guys here have killed fish.... I'd bet that Everyone here has.
Fish are no way at risk because of fracking.
Sheeesh !
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Location: PA Angler | This sucks. Already ruined a couple creeks I fished for trout. Out NW PA. Ohio state park is a very beautiful place now fracking is going to destroy some of those places. |
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Posts: 596
Location: Duluth | Top H2O - 2/3/2023 12:09 PM
Really ?? Huh ?
Do you guys actually believe that Fracking is going to kill your Muskies?
Ban all fishing worldwide if you want to protect the fish.
I wonder how many guys here have killed fish.... I'd bet that Everyone here has.
Fish are no way at risk because of fracking.
Sheeesh !
Fracking is great for water quality, yep.
Your other points are totally irrelevant. |
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Posts: 1197
| They frack walking distance from my home. They are not good neighbours it's can be loud at all times of the day. It can screw up water quality and the sky used to be Colorado blue. We need the oil and fact of the matter there's very few places where you have pools of oil so you have to frack. There are things the oil companies can do to made it a cleaner process but it cost them money. We do have stricter rules then most states but the companies don't follow the rules all the time. It also can cause earthquakes. |
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Location: oswego, il | chuckski - 2/3/2023 1:59 PM
They frack walking distance from my home. They are not good neighbours it's can be loud at all times of the day. It can screw up water quality and the sky used to be Colorado blue. We need the oil and fact of the matter there's very few places where you have pools of oil so you have to frack. There are things the oil companies can do to made it a cleaner process but it cost them money. We do have stricter rules then most states but the companies don't follow the rules all the time. It also can cause earthquakes.
It could be worse you could live by a feed lot. |
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Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | CincySkeez - 2/3/2023 1:29 PM
Top H2O - 2/3/2023 12:09 PM
Really ?? Huh ?
Do you guys actually believe that Fracking is going to kill your Muskies?
Ban all fishing worldwide if you want to protect the fish.
I wonder how many guys here have killed fish.... I'd bet that Everyone here has.
Fish are no way at risk because of fracking.
Sheeesh !
Fracking is great for water quality, yep.
Your other points are totally irrelevant.
How many Muskies has fracking Killed ? That's my point.
How many muskies have you killed ? That's my point. |
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Posts: 1188
| Top H2O - 2/3/2023 3:53 PM
CincySkeez - 2/3/2023 1:29 PM
Top H2O - 2/3/2023 12:09 PM
Really ?? Huh ?
Do you guys actually believe that Fracking is going to kill your Muskies?
Ban all fishing worldwide if you want to protect the fish.
I wonder how many guys here have killed fish.... I'd bet that Everyone here has.
Fish are no way at risk because of fracking.
Sheeesh !
Fracking is great for water quality, yep.
Your other points are totally irrelevant.
How many Muskies has fracking Killed ? That's my point.
How many muskies have you killed ? That's my point.
How many muskies live where there is fracking?
How many muskies have people killed where there is fracking?
Answer is probably zero, to both. |
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Posts: 115
| Winternet, enjoy it while it lasts. |
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Posts: 115
| to add: both sides have good points but not really fishing related. |
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Posts: 3784
| Naw, it is fishing related. Deal is, every time we make changes to certain parts of a biological system those changes ripple thru the entire system. If we are careful stewards of the environment, if the long-term prosperity of the environment is our highest priority, then we would carefully and fully study the short and long-term systemic impact created by our project. As in, environmental impact studies.
Consider that documentary titled Evan Almighty narrated by Steve Carell (2007). You better believe a bunch of fish were killed when that #*^@ dam broke.
The struggle is ever short-term profit vs long-term prosperity. The profiteers are the guys who raid the systems. The losers are the critters and people who rely on the systems and face failures created by the profiteers who are either long gone or ready to fight with a legal war chest, part of the profits don'tchaknow. |
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Location: Athens, Ohio | Perhaps this article will add some perspective. Drilling is not a silent activity. While the vibrations may not kill fish, the racket caused by drilling will certainly disturb the otherwise serine park in which I find respite in fishing.
Also, when the state goes into the lease business, companies usually can get quite a good deal, which places adjacent landholders at a competitive disadvantage.
m
https://www.cincinnati.com/story/opinion/contributors/2023/01/22/opi...
Edited by mikie 2/4/2023 6:00 PM
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Posts: 1197
| I grew up in in oil rich southern California back in the 60's when there were still orange groves in Orange County. There were fields to ride our bikes and have rock fights, before they would built a tract of houses they would check for oil. When my parents bought the house we live in now there was no fracking, they found oil and started fracking. Since then Colorado has made rules to have off sets from neighborhoods and schools. There are now homes where the loud fracking was. A couple years ago two people got vaporised changing a water heater and a old gas well down the street leaked and leveled there home. |
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Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | no offence taken; I have thick skin.
I also work in the fossil fuels industry and understand that Fracking has NEVER killed a Muskie .. ever ! never will.
The FACT that the U.S. has the most stringent Enviromental Laws/policies on the Planet.
The idea that you "Green" people think that You can control the climate while country's like China, Russia, India, Africa, Venezuela, ect. spew millions of tons of crap into the air and water daily are well... Ignorance.
Perhaps speak out against countries that are dumping tons and tons of human generated garbage in the Ocean and not following The U.S. or our Enviromental policies.
America can't afford to lose really good paying jobs because of the lack of knowledge of those people pushing the wasteful green agenda/spending B.S. |
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Location: E. Tenn | Like so many other issues out there, misinformation is rampant.. There was a company who wanted to start fracking in rural SW Virginia, just a few miles away from where I live. Local opposition almost immediately reached a fever pitch, and each side was offered air time on one of the local TV channels to make their case.
I remember one of the topics discussed, was about the chemicals used, and their effects on people, and the environment. The profrackers all but claimed you could drink the stuff, while the opposition's position was "you'll die if you even look at it".
I don't think much in the way of factual information came out of it, but the company realized they were not at all welcome in the area, and quietly left without drilling a single hole..
Edited by miket55 2/10/2023 6:38 PM
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Posts: 64
| Ahh yep, now it all makes sense. Working in the fossil fuel industries and all. Appreciate your response but from watching my buddies light their well water on fire and watching bubbles come up into the Susquehanna and a neighboring creek sure as hell seems like it could cause some issues. And even if its not hte fracking directly, all the chemicals and all they are pumping into the water table to crack the rocks... well thats gotta go somewhere and i'm sure they won't exactly filter out or do any harm to our water table and the springs all over... but again, working for the industry its obvious to see your stand won't ever change. IT's whoever lines your pockets to most... same as you.
ADMIN: Kepp your comments on subject and don't go personal if you want to have your post stay up. |
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Location: Duluth | Top H2O - 2/10/2023 12:48 PM
America can't afford to lose really good paying jobs because of the lack of knowledge of those people pushing the wasteful green agenda/spending B.S.
^^^There's your real argument. Short sighted, but at least motives are clear.
The amount of oil that the US should extract should be just enough to keep up with current technology, the rest should stay in the ground. Every barrel of imported oil is our advantage in the future.
Let everyone else pump their oil, deplete their resources, natural and capital, chasing short term goals. Hydrocarbons are here to stay, no doubt about that, but they need to be managed on a strategic level....not the main input for all of industrial production. It's not like we can just up and liquify more organic matter, takes time for the earth to create the stuff...but you already know this.
What does this have to do with fishing? Well Ranger already said.
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Posts: 735
| So let me try to get this right. The last three guys who posted know more about the industry than TopH20, the guy who actually works in the industry? Yeah, sure. Kdawg |
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Location: Athens, Ohio | IMHO, the 'industry' is running scared of the Green New Deal. Look how they jacked up gas prices right before midterm elections. They want to grab every drop they can get before the demand changes. I'd prefer to leave the resource in the ground at public parks.
aND, btw fracking fluid releases DID kill muskies in WV's Dunkard Creek in a spill.
" During the next month about 22,000 fish washed ashore (some estimates say as many as 65,000 died). At least 14 species of freshwater mussels - the river's entire population - were destroyed, wiping out nearly every aquatic species along a 35-mile stretch of Dunkard Creek. "That's the ultimate tragedy," says Frank Jernejcic, a fisheries biologist with the West Virginia Department of Natural Resources. "Fish will come back, we can get the fish back. The mussels are a generational thing."
The scene was horrific: Many of the fish were bleeding from the gills and covered in mucous; mud puppies, a kind of gilled salamander that lives underwater, had tried to escape by crawling onto nearby rocks; three-foot long muskies washed up along the riverbanks. The die-off marked one of the worst ecological disasters in the region's history. m
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Posts: 1197
| I've spent a lot of years heading North to fish (50 of my 62 years) but I've lived half my live in California and half in Colorado there used to be fire season! There is no longer fire season it's all year long. There was a article in the paper that the oil companies knew that burning oil caused global warming. Well in 1979/1980 I started college a took a science class and the instructor warned us of global warming. (he was a older guy) "not in my life time but probably in yours" He was a retired oil company geologist. Whatever the cause the ice cap's at the poles are shrinking. Like when we go camping when the ice is gone the beer gets warm in a hurry. |
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| Something like 90% of petroleum extracted in the lower 48 involves at least some fracking according to the stories I could find. So, as long as we are dependent on oil, we need to find a way to minimize the problems it creates. To deny there are problems is head in the sand thinking. But, we can't deny the need for it either. A lot of times, making it more environmentally friendly means higher costs and if we want a cleaner environment, it is a cost we will need to pay as consumers. As an old guy, I remember when the clean water bills were being debated in congress in the late 1960s and early 1970s. The paper mills in WI declared it was too expensive to clean up their act and wanted congress to declare the Wis. River and the Fox River "Industrial Rivers", meaning they could keep pumping pollutants into the river. But, when the bill passed, they found ways to clean things up and some of the better capitalized companies actually embraced the new rules because it created another barrier to entry for companies wanting to get into the paper business. |
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Location: E. Tenn | kdawg - 2/10/2023 10:25 PM
So let me try to get this right. The last three guys who posted know more about the industry than TopH20, the guy who actually works in the industry? Yeah, sure. Kdawg
Umm..no, and never claimed to.. just simply shared a news story from my area.. |
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Posts: 735
| miket55 - 2/12/2023 10:12 PM
kdawg - 2/10/2023 10:25 PM
So let me try to get this right. The last three guys who posted know more about the industry than TopH20, the guy who actually works in the industry? Yeah, sure. Kdawg
Umm..no, and never claimed to.. just simply shared a news story from my area.. |
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| kdawg - 2/13/2023 7:36 AM
miket55 - 2/12/2023 10:12 PM
kdawg - 2/10/2023 10:25 PM
So let me try to get this right. The last three guys who posted know more about the industry than TopH20, the guy who actually works in the industry? Yeah, sure. Kdawg
Umm..no, and never claimed to.. just simply shared a news story from my area.. Already figured that. And considering the credibility of today's media, I'll believe the employee with first hand knowledge every time. Kdawg
So, forty years ago you would have believed the scientists working for tobacco companies who said cigarettes were harmless? Can't get much more first-hand knowledge of an industry than that. |
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Posts: 735
| North of 8 - 2/13/2023 8:14 AM
kdawg - 2/13/2023 7:36 AM
miket55 - 2/12/2023 10:12 PM
kdawg - 2/10/2023 10:25 PM
So let me try to get this right. The last three guys who posted know more about the industry than TopH20, the guy who actually works in the industry? Yeah, sure. Kdawg
Umm..no, and never claimed to.. just simply shared a news story from my area.. Already figured that. And considering the credibility of today's media, I'll believe the employee with first hand knowledge every time. Kdawg
So, forty years ago you would have believed the scientists working for tobacco companies who said cigarettes were harmless? Can't get much more first-hand knowledge of an industry than that.[/QUOTEYes you can, from actual individuals that I knew suffering from lung cancer caused from smoking. Kdawg |
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| kdawg - 2/13/2023 8:20 AM
North of 8 - 2/13/2023 8:14 AM
kdawg - 2/13/2023 7:36 AM
miket55 - 2/12/2023 10:12 PM
kdawg - 2/10/2023 10:25 PM
So let me try to get this right. The last three guys who posted know more about the industry than TopH20, the guy who actually works in the industry? Yeah, sure. Kdawg
Umm..no, and never claimed to.. just simply shared a news story from my area.. Already figured that. And considering the credibility of today's media, I'll believe the employee with first hand knowledge every time. Kdawg
So, forty years ago you would have believed the scientists working for tobacco companies who said cigarettes were harmless? Can't get much more first-hand knowledge of an industry than that.[/QUOTEYes you can, from actual individuals that I knew suffering from lung cancer caused from smoking. Kdawg
But, the scientists that worked for the tobacco companies said it didn't cause cancer and you said you trust first hand knowledge. My point is that sometimes, the least trustworthy sources are those within the industry, who have something to hide. |
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Posts: 8722
| I was working on projects for BP and Exxon Mobil way back when they introduced the Deep Water Horizon drilling rig. According to everyone in the industry at the time it was going to be the safest drilling rig ever put into service. |
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| Exxon's executives have long tried to convince congress that fossil fuels are not a problem, yet it has now been revealed that their own scientists saw the impact of burning fossil fuels on green house gases and the impact on climate change as early as the late 1970s.
My sister has lived in Alaska for 40 years and her degree was in Earth Sciences. She said she wonderes if the oil industry actually liked the idea of climate change because so much of oil reserves left in Alaska are above the artic circle, and that is the area that has seen the most impact of climate change. Some areas in northern Alaska have seen an 8 degree increase in average temps in the last 25 years. She readily admits that is just wild speculation. |
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Posts: 32801
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I think everyone here would agree that we are going to be totally dependent on fossil fuels for a while yet. The alternatives, though attractive sounding, all have their own opportunity costs both to the environment and the economy and not one is realistic given the economic and social adjustments necessary. I doubt I'll live long enough to see much real global change, so how about we not call each other names over this?
No one here has the magic bullet. |
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