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Posts: 105
Location: Alberta Canada | New guy here and looking to do my first trip. This trip has been delayed between Covid and work but the wife and I will be making this our priority trip this year
I am from Alberta Canada and normally target pike here in Alberta or Saskatchewan. Musky have been on my bucket list for sometime. The wife and I normally fish from kayaks even on big water. I am also a lure builder and make a large variety of different styles of lures. We are avid outdoors people into both hunting and fishing
So I joined this forum in hopes to learn about musky and advice regarding some of the waters I have been looking into.
With this trip I will be making musky my priority and will be running all handmade baits. The wife on the other hand really just likes to catch fish but likes to target big fish too. So other species to target would be good for the wife. We may take our kayaks but may just rent a boat for the whole time or part of the trip. Looking for respectable cabins but we are not looking for luxury. Clean well maintained cabin is the goal as we usually put in 12hr plus days fishing
There are 4 bodies of water that have caught my attention but I am open to suggestions. This is our first musky trip so not chasing a trophy this time just want to experience musky fishing to start. If you have experience with the waters below I would like to hear your opinion on them. Info on accommodation and general information on the fishery is all I am asking for. I am not asking for anyone to give up spots
1) Indian Lake chain is on the top of my list so far. From my research it has good numbers of musky but most are around 40” or less. It is a moderate size body of water making it easier to explore with boat or kayak. Things get more confusing when it comes to the quality of fishery in each lake and fishing for each species.
2) Canyon Lake seems to be a good option for musky numbers. It seems like the average musky is smaller than Indian though. It also appears fishing outside of musky is not as good. Again like the manageable size of the lake
3) LOTW had to make the list because you hear so much about it. It seems to have good numbers of musky and the possibility at bigger musky. The fishing for other species seems better. I worry LOTW might be tougher to find musky for a rookie do to the shear size of the lake. May need to stick to renting a boat do to covering ground
4) The Winnipeg river is the other on my radar. I am not finding as much information as the above options. It seems like a more manageable body of water. But I just can’t find much information on the fishing
If you have any information on the above you are willing to share I would be interested in hearing it. I am also open to looking into other bodies of water if you have suggestions in NW Ontario.
For lures as I mentioned I build my own. I prefer casting/working a bait so often lean towards jerk/pull/glider style lures but I also make crankbaits and bucktails. A lot of the stuff I build similar to what I see sold for musky lures. I target large pike so my baits are often 6-9inchs without tails. Is it worth creating some larger designs or should I be fine size wise?
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Posts: 309
Location: Selkirk, Manitoba | Lot of moving parts there.
Short answer: With your wants there your best option is the Indian Lake chain or Canyon due to the higher density of muskies. I can't speak to the lodges there as not stayed at any of them (I only did a few days fisheries work on them).
Slightly longer answer: There is no assurances that you will catch a musky though. You are reducing the odds of catching one or more by your other wants: using kayaks, own pike lures, DIYing, dividing time with other species.
I love fishing for pike as well, and in fact learned how to fish on the lakes in the Athabasca/Lac la Biche area of Alberta as my grandparents on both sides homesteaded there. Anyone can catch pike (because they are typically numerous). There are people that fish and have cottages on the lakes mentioned (especially LOTW and Winnipeg River) that have never caught a musky in their life, and in many cases never had anyone in their boat catch one - point being if your mission is to catch a musky then you may want focus on that first and then add in the other wants - hence why I think you and your wife will have a better time if you hire a musky guide early on in your trip to take you out on more of a how-to learning outing and then try the DIY afterwards.
PS. Make sure to enjoy the smallmouth bass fishing. You don't want to get addicted to musky fishing.
Edited by Angling Oracle 1/2/2023 5:30 PM
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Posts: 714
| Can't comment on The first two lakes but LOTW and The Winnipeg are pretty vast and fish tend to be fairly spread out...you really need a boat not a kayak. I think the Oracle hit the nail on the head...essentially go all in on Musky fishing if you want success fishing for them. Guides are actually pretty cheap up there, spend at least a couple days with one to learn the basics...be clear to him/her that's what you are looking for out of the day.
Getting back to the progression of an angler.
1. wants to catch one
2. wants to catch a bunch
3. wants to catch a big one (yes they are all kinda big)
4. wants to catch a bunch of big ones
5. wants to catch them how they want to
Don't start with #5, the learning curve with Muskies is just to steep to achieve much success in that manner. |
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Posts: 2280
Location: Chisholm, MN | bturg hit the nail on the head. Muskies are far different from pike and I think you may be frustrated if you don’t fish for them muskie style. It’s not that your baits won’t work, but the methods are different. A guide is your best bet. |
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Posts: 105
Location: Alberta Canada | Thanks for the replies
Musky will be priority even if the wife chooses to throw out other lures in the process. I have caught everything else the area has to offer so only coming out for musky
Kayaks maybe left behind and just rent a boat do to travel alone. We have already talked about renting a boat for half of the trip(week) even if we bring kayaks. We like to pale our kayaks because it gives the ability to jump locations easier if needed
Guide for a day I have considered just have never gone that way for freshwater
Lures I won’t budge on using my own gear but I know others have been successful on musky on lures I made. I will design some baits strictly for this trip. When I say I can build almost anything I am not exaggerating. The only style of lure making I don’t have experience with is lead pouring. I will post pics of some of my work later down the road
To give an Idea present designs I am working on are an 8inch dive and rise(little different than what is available) and a twin tail hybrid pull bait when stretched out is roughly 11inch long. The soft plastic tail section is from an aluminum mold I designed and had made 100% original. These are just 2 designs that I am working on with this trip in mind. Been making quality effective for too long to not trust them
I will stick to handmade lures but I am completely open to lure styles I should build or size for the trip
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Posts: 105
Location: Alberta Canada | Kirby Budrow - 1/2/2023 9:06 PM
bturg hit the nail on the head. Muskies are far different from pike and I think you may be frustrated if you don’t fish for them muskie style. It’s not that your baits won’t work, but the methods are different. A guide is your best bet.
Would you mind touching base on what you would say are the big differences
I understand they are much lower density and can be picky in comparison.
Completely open to any information that people are willing to provide about musky tactics |
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Posts: 2280
Location: Chisholm, MN | Pikebait - 1/2/2023 10:24 PM
Kirby Budrow - 1/2/2023 9:06 PM
bturg hit the nail on the head. Muskies are far different from pike and I think you may be frustrated if you don’t fish for them muskie style. It’s not that your baits won’t work, but the methods are different. A guide is your best bet.
Would you mind touching base on what you would say are the big differences
I understand they are much lower density and can be picky in comparison.
Completely open to any information that people are willing to provide about musky tactics
Triggering a strike is different. It's not just a cast and reel in hopes you'll come across one. That tactic will get you some follows but turning them into biters is the point. It takes a lot of time to build up experience in this. That's why hiring a guide would be beneficial. They can show you the details. I'd also watch some youtube on these tactics. It would be hard to explain here. Like I said before - your lures may not be wrong but it's how you work them.
It takes a lot of people years to catch their first musky because they are just building up experience. But once you find that groove, it becomes easier. Others might be lucky and catch one on their first cast but that's rare and they won't be consistently successful until they build up that experience. Pike are just much easier to catch. You can cast out the most simple lure and catch them with little skill. Muskies are different. That's why they call them the fish of 10,000 casts. 10,000 is not an exaggeration until you get good at it.
Youtube to watch
Doug Wegner (he has a new paid subscription but his older videos are very informative. No need to pay.)
Musky Hunter
Today's Angler (older ones with Lee Tauchen)
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Posts: 1971
| Kayaks will definitely be a challenge, but challenges are fun. A couple of suggestions for LOTW's or the Winnipeg #1- Id go on the opener and fish weed bays if you want to go by kayak...You could look at the resorts around and just north of Nester Falls for LOTW, this is a section that is relatively narrow for LOTW and there is decent muskie fishing nearby...Winnipeg river - for a kayak...I've never stayed at Rough Rock lodge, but can assure you there are plenty of muskies near the camp. I think targeting bays early season (end of June) in a kayak could be productive...once fish spread from the shallow bays you'd be at an even greater disadvantage - good luck!!! |
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Posts: 1196
| You will catch Pike fishing for Muskies in Canada for one and some of them will be Muskie sized. For me if I'm fishing a spot and start catching too many Pike I'll move to a different spot. |
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Posts: 105
Location: Alberta Canada | Kirby Budrow - 1/3/2023 10:33 AM
Pikebait - 1/2/2023 10:24 PM
Kirby Budrow - 1/2/2023 9:06 PM
bturg hit the nail on the head. Muskies are far different from pike and I think you may be frustrated if you don’t fish for them muskie style. It’s not that your baits won’t work, but the methods are different. A guide is your best bet.
Would you mind touching base on what you would say are the big differences
I understand they are much lower density and can be picky in comparison.
Completely open to any information that people are willing to provide about musky tactics
Triggering a strike is different. It's not just a cast and reel in hopes you'll come across one. That tactic will get you some follows but turning them into biters is the point. It takes a lot of time to build up experience in this. That's why hiring a guide would be beneficial. They can show you the details. I'd also watch some youtube on these tactics. It would be hard to explain here. Like I said before - your lures may not be wrong but it's how you work them.
It takes a lot of people years to catch their first musky because they are just building up experience. But once you find that groove, it becomes easier. Others might be lucky and catch one on their first cast but that's rare and they won't be consistently successful until they build up that experience. Pike are just much easier to catch. You can cast out the most simple lure and catch them with little skill. Muskies are different. That's why they call them the fish of 10,000 casts. 10,000 is not an exaggeration until you get good at it.
Youtube to watch
Doug Wegner (he has a new paid subscription but his older videos are very informative. No need to pay. )
Musky Hunter
Today's Angler (older ones with Lee Tauchen )
Pike is just one of many species I have experience with. I am not expecting musky to be as cooperative at all. I am expecting a grind not non stop action
I have watched a fair bit of Today’s angler and musky hunters on YouTube along with 54 or bust. I enjoyed their content because it was upbeat and informative. I will check out the others
What you are describing regarding retrieve is similar to my opinion on all predatory species. I lack in musky experience but I am an ex guide out west and have a very large list of species under my belt. No lack of experience adjusting my cadence, applying action to lures, finishing following(figure 8s work on more than just musky but some species you need more line out and keep your rod out of the water), and a fair number of other tricks. Knowledge on when to apply what with musky I do lack experience with though
I don’t doubt I would benefit from a guide especially from seasonal habitat and species knowledge. Like a trick or two on learning to read the fishes reactions. I have been considering a one day guided outing but only if it’s casting not trolling
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Posts: 105
Location: Alberta Canada | chuckski - 1/3/2023 11:49 AM
You will catch Pike fishing for Muskies in Canada for one and some of them will be Muskie sized. For me if I'm fishing a spot and start catching too many Pike I'll move to a different spot.
I am expecting the average musky on this trip to be smaller than the big pike I have caught. I know plenty of places where I live in western Canada that 40” plus pike are not that hard to find and some places the rare 50” pike does appear.
Good to know that if I start catching too many pike move locations |
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Posts: 105
Location: Alberta Canada | IAJustin - 1/3/2023 11:20 AM
Kayaks will definitely be a challenge, but challenges are fun. A couple of suggestions for LOTW's or the Winnipeg #1- Id go on the opener and fish weed bays if you want to go by kayak...You could look at the resorts around and just north of Nester Falls for LOTW, this is a section that is relatively narrow for LOTW and there is decent muskie fishing nearby...Winnipeg river - for a kayak...I've never stayed at Rough Rock lodge, but can assure you there are plenty of muskies near the camp. I think targeting bays early season (end of June) in a kayak could be productive...once fish spread from the shallow bays you'd be at an even greater disadvantage - good luck!!!
Thanks for the information it’s appreciated. More and more I think Indian lake chain might be the best place for us to try musky fishing first.
The kayaks are definitely fun and most who have no experience with a quality pedal drive fishing kayak would likely be amazed at what they can do. We have been out in 4ft plus swells fishing well other boats are heading in. They can cover ground fairly well too. Last year our longest round trip fishing for the day was 30Km. Definitely not going to cover ground like a boat but most underestimate what they are capable or. I know I did till I owned one
I actually sold my decked out 16.5 Kingfisher after running my kayaks for the year.
I think if I bring the Kayaks I will rent a boat for the first half of my trip to get a plan going first
One thing I have learned fish are not afraid of kayaks and this has actually benefited us at times. It’s also a blast getting towed around by bigger fish. My wife was funny as hell last year getting towed around by a 44” pike lol. She has her heart set on a musky from a kayak probably more than I do
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Posts: 105
Location: Alberta Canada | I do appreciate all the input guys and I am taking what is said into consideration. I know sometimes things come of wrong on forums so I just want to say I value your opinions even if I may come of as stubborn lol |
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Posts: 105
Location: Alberta Canada | What is the opinion on top water. Is it really something valuable to use for musky or is it more about the thrill?
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Posts: 1188
| Pikebait - 1/3/2023 4:27 PM
What is the opinion on top water. Is it really something valuable to use for musky or is it more about the thrill?
It's valuable. |
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Posts: 309
Location: Selkirk, Manitoba | No one offended here I don't think.
I don't think Kirby is necessarily referring to technique - it is more of a mental mindset: consistent perfection and attention to detail from the start of the day to the end MAY get you a musky or two by the end of the day (or might not). Then start the next day and do it again. This is what a confident musky fisherman is. Pike fishing is casting, retrieving, hooking and releasing and do it again - lose one, missed one, whatever, there is always another and a nice stress free day with no long debates with a fish partner about what went wrong, what the other folks are doing, PO'd that someone on that spot at dusk where you saw a big one and icing up, taping up or bandaging whatever repetitive casting injury you have.
Right now you are envisioning muskies following and then trying to get them to bite. The mental exercise (perhaps similar to sitting in a bow stand for late season whitetails) - is be ready to see nothing all day but be prepared every cast for a fish and make sure the next cast and retrieve is perfect.
Musky are not afraid of anything (but you can spook them, they are not stupid) and yes, we wouldn't use topwaters if they didn't work given the necessary investments in effort described above.
The Indian Chain is a good choice as I think you will up your probabilities there with the musky densities there together with the fact you have a good skill set, and are doing everything you can to learn to give yourself an edge. Wherever you stay will also try their best to help you succeed.
Edited by Angling Oracle 1/3/2023 5:31 PM
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Posts: 105
Location: Alberta Canada | Any recommendations on top water lure styles you recommend?
I do have a bulky 5 1/2 in surface walker i designed that did catch musky for a fisherman I made two for somewhere in eastern Ontario. Think jitterbug on steroids that throws a larger wake. I was debating on building a large prop style lure
Angling oracle
Your description reminds me of fly fishing steelhead on the coast except for the fact they are scared of everything and more fineness style gear. Or even low density bull trout fishing
I am expecting it to take some figuring out like any new species
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Posts: 309
Location: Selkirk, Manitoba | Pikebait - 1/3/2023 6:00 PM
Any recommendations on top water lure styles you recommend?
I do have a bulky 5 1/2 in surface walker i designed that did catch musky for a fisherman I made two for somewhere in eastern Ontario. Think jitterbug on steroids that throws a larger wake. I was debating on building a large prop style lure
Angling oracle
Your description reminds me of fly fishing steelhead on the coast except for the fact they are scared of everything and more fineness style gear. Or even low density bull trout fishing
I am expecting it to take some figuring out like any new species
If your design is different that what others are throwing, then great. Can't go wrong with anything with a duckling size water displacement and noise. I assume you are doing so but make sure your lures use all large musky/saltwater fish strength split rings and high end hooks. It is not that musky are great fighters or anything, it is just that the battle takes place on a short line.
You are fixin' to find out what musky are about.
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Posts: 105
Location: Alberta Canada | Angling Oracle - 1/3/2023 6:26 PM
Pikebait - 1/3/2023 6:00 PM
Any recommendations on top water lure styles you recommend?
I do have a bulky 5 1/2 in surface walker i designed that did catch musky for a fisherman I made two for somewhere in eastern Ontario. Think jitterbug on steroids that throws a larger wake. I was debating on building a large prop style lure
Angling oracle
Your description reminds me of fly fishing steelhead on the coast except for the fact they are scared of everything and more fineness style gear. Or even low density bull trout fishing
I am expecting it to take some figuring out like any new species
If your design is different that what others are throwing, then great. Can't go wrong with anything with a duckling size water displacement and noise. I assume you are doing so but make sure your lures use all large musky/saltwater fish strength split rings and high end hooks. It is not that musky are great fighters or anything, it is just that the battle takes place on a short line.
You are fixin' to find out what musky are about.
Looks like I will have to see what I can come up with for another top water
My hardbaits are all resin poured, multiple layers of clear coat, all hardware is cast into the body, x4 VMC hooks, and heavy stainless rings. Should be no issue with durability
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Posts: 8721
| Lures aside for a moment, your success musky fishing will depend on your ability to do two things:
1. Cast for hours or even days without ever seeing a single fish
2. Being on your game when one does show up whether it's your first cast of the trip or the last cast on the last day
Depending on where you fish, most of the fish you catch will be triggered and caught boatside on the figure 8. (ovals work, too) If you're not prepared for that when one shows up, well... Be prepared for that. |
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Posts: 480
Location: Northern Illinois | esoxaddict - 1/3/2023 8:17 PM
Depending on where you fish, most of the fish you catch will be triggered and caught boatside on the figure 8. (ovals work, too) If you're not prepared for that when one shows up, well... Be prepared for that.
^^^This is important and something that might be difficult in a yak. |
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Posts: 105
Location: Alberta Canada | RLSea - 1/3/2023 8:47 PM
esoxaddict - 1/3/2023 8:17 PM
Depending on where you fish, most of the fish you catch will be triggered and caught boatside on the figure 8. (ovals work, too) If you're not prepared for that when one shows up, well... Be prepared for that.
^^^This is important and something that might be difficult in a yak.
Very easy in a good quality fishing kayak they are extremely stable. You can stand up and fish in them they are far more stable than a canoe or standard kayak
Theses are not bass pro or Walmart special kayaks. Theses are designed for the purpose of fishing and big water
As for casting all day no concern at all about that I do it often |
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Posts: 2280
Location: Chisholm, MN | Definitely not offended over here. I think you have a great fishing mentality that can easily carry over to muskies. I think we're all just try to make you truly aware of the difference. As far as topwater, yes they are great. The main bait that catches the most fish of any lure style is a bucktail though. The double bladed inline spinner style is most popular. Rubber baits work great as well.
I've caught muskies out of a canoe so I have no doubt in your abilities with a kayak. In fact I'd like to get a nice kayak one day specifically for muskies.
Figure 8 - be mindful of what a good figure 8 really is. Jim Saric and Doug Wegner can show you that. There are a lot of TERRIBLE figure 8s on other shows. Don't do what they do. They do not work. Your figure 8 is the most technical piece of the puzzle and if it's not just right it won't work. Thats where experience comes in as well. |
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Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | I can only comment on the Indian Chain and Canyon as I've fished both and I do kayak.
It's a dream of mine to fish Ontario muskies out of my kayak, and I hope to do it this summer. BUT, my plan is to take both my larger boat, my kayaks and hit the bigger lake I'll be staying on (Eagle Lake) with the boat on most days. On days when it's a bit flatter, calmer, I will be taking the kayaks to SMALLER lakes to chase muskies and bass.
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While I'd love to be able to tangle with a giant on Eagle while on the kayak, even with a pedal drive, going to be a 30 minute hike to the first spot, 20 to the next, etc. etc. Too much travelling, not enough fishing. Even on Canyon, the ramp (if you can call it that) is a mile to the first and best spot (check some videos out there by some "youtube pros" they're all on the same spot). But with Canyon if you NEED to catch a fish, throw a depthraider back 60 ft and get that yak going about 4mph and you'll eventually catch one. Open water or shorelines, they are kinda everywhere. But, like others said, not all that big.
Do a little interweb searching for smaller lakes in whatever area you choose to stay, ...I've got Stewart and Corner for muskies near Vermillion Bay and if I want to chase some bass out of the yak, I've got Ely and Nixon right off Rte 17. These lakes are far less crowded, have no camps on the water, and are small/skinny enough to be able to fish effectively in a yak.
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Posts: 1196
| Topwater the good, bad, and the ugly, When I started out fishing I fished a lot of top water. The reason why It's what I found in my grandpa's garage, I had a couple Globes, Cisco Kid Topper, and a Burmeck B-2 a long with a Suick and a brand new Bobbiebait. The nice thing about fishing these lures is when I got a backlash (1 of 3 casts back then) my lure didn't get fowled in the weeds. I fished them too fast and in August the big fish were out in deep water so I caught next to nothing. I caught my first Pike on a Bobbiebait. As years went by I foolishly stayed a way from topwater. Now when I go on a Pike trip a Buzzbait is one of my first choices (warm water). And as one guide put it to me is "a topwater lure is a lure a fish will hit out of anger". |
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Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | RLSea - 1/3/2023 8:47 PM
esoxaddict - 1/3/2023 8:17 PM
Depending on where you fish, most of the fish you catch will be triggered and caught boatside on the figure 8. (ovals work, too) If you're not prepared for that when one shows up, well... Be prepared for that.
^^^This is important and something that might be difficult in a yak.
Actually, if you're standing in a kayak....figure 8s are much easier to do. |
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Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | Not to be a jerk, but I think you guys are a little uneducated on what a "fishing kayak" is. Take out the word Kayak and say "little boat powered by your legs to go".
The only draw backs to a true "fishing kayak" are range and how large your cahones are versus the weather.
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Location: Chisholm, MN | Slamr - 1/4/2023 10:05 AM
Not to be a jerk, but I think you guys are a little uneducated on what a "fishing kayak" is. Take out the word Kayak and say "little boat powered by your legs to go".
The only draw backs to a true "fishing kayak" are range and how large your cahones are versus the weather.
Absolutely. They look awesome and I'd love to give it a go but they are pretty spendy. |
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Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | Kirby Budrow - 1/4/2023 12:31 PM
Slamr - 1/4/2023 10:05 AM
Not to be a jerk, but I think you guys are a little uneducated on what a "fishing kayak" is. Take out the word Kayak and say "little boat powered by your legs to go".
The only draw backs to a true "fishing kayak" are range and how large your cahones are versus the weather.
Absolutely. They look awesome and I'd love to give it a go but they are pretty spendy.
Getting my second Old Town 120PDL in a few weeks....trade trips? 
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| Kirby, might you be able to rent a fishing yak in your area? I heard one of the dealers in the Eagle River area was renting quality fishing kayaks by the day.
And yes, the pedal drive, high end fishing kayaks are quite different than standard kayaks. Freind of mine is retired but parlayed his love of "silent sports" into a part time job with a sports shop. Couple weeks ago the shop got in some 2023 kayaks. Truck had to park almost a block away and he said the big pedal fishing kayaks are close to a hundred pounds. Very solid stable fishing platform. At over 70, not going to invest in one, though I get the itch every spring. I fish from my non-pedal fishing kayak and it is fun. Have only hooked one muskie, but have not really fished for them other than that time. Panfish, bass in the weeds are a blast. Another friend takes a trip down the upper Wis. River every year in his kayak and catches a lot of nice small mouth, on lovely stretch of river, that would be very hard to fish from a standard fishing boat. |
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