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Posts: 112
| Hi all and Happy Winternet,
While researching my local Musky waters I came across a Y/T video created by a young fellow starting a fishing channel (very novel idea!). He hires a guide who catches him some quality fish, then he posts a detailed video of his adventure, turning it into a basic instructional vid on Musky fishing (the guides tips basically).
However, the video revealed detailed and useful info the the guide surely painstakingly accumulated over a decade: the exact lures, location, color, time of year, and presentation.
Guides - how do you handle this? Let anybody film in boat and just chance that they don't burn ya on social media? Ask clients to hide important details? Do you just run a couple top-end cameras yourself and provide (better) edited footage to client?
Clients - would you still hire a guide that asks you not film the lure/spot/color? What if the guide has multiple cameras and provides non-revealing action shots like hookset/fight then big fish held high, but edits out the tradecraft details?
Musky fishing isn't art. Not everyone can paint. Anyone can cast/hookset/reel/net/photograph. There are virtually an infinite number of canvasses and tubes of paint in the world, whereas there are only a few super-Primo Musky spots at a given time of year in an area. There are virtually an infinite number of things to paint; there are a very limited number of Musky to catch.
It matters! One time a caught a nice Striper in my home lake, went to shore to unhook and share the lure with a shore fisherman. Next day, two guys standing on shore using the same lure I showed the day before. That is fine - it was my choice to share. But some of these guides getting burned did not choose to get burned by a client.
If I were this guide and I showed up to this tiny spot the same time next year only to find a couple boats anchored using up "my" lures, I'd be frustrated. It could impact one's business.
Yeah, yeah, some will argue a pro guide has lots of spots and this is part of fishing and yada yada yada. I disagree, this is a special spot. His lure/color/spots/times are part of his tradecraft that can be stolen and broadcast to every Tom Dick and Harry on the internet. If I were that guide and a client wanted to do this, I tell them to watch a Bob Ross video and start painting instead.
The Winternet wants to know!
Edited by curdmudgeon 1/6/2022 11:07 AM
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Posts: 8719
| I suppose if you guide you expect your clients to learn and use what you've showed them. Whether its a lake, specific spots, lure selection, of how to pattern fish at a specific time of year you can't reasonably expect your clients to keep that information entirely to themselves. They paid you for that knowledge after all.
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Posts: 591
Location: Duluth | If this bothers a guide they shouldn't be showing people fishing spots and techniques for a living. Can't have your cake and eat it too |
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Posts: 1184
| I've seen photo's taken by guides where they alter or scramble the background . I know one guide who used to trick clients on what lake they were fishing (they would get to the lake and he would tell them that is lake A when they were on lake G.
Or you're on a lake and you go down a shore instead of fishing the "good spot" or spot on the spot. They also have places they only take long time tight lipped clients. Dick Sleight only took certain clients to "Banana Lake" for example.
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Posts: 112
| of course clients will not keep info "entirely to themselves" - that is not my argument at all. friends and family is different that the entire internet, eh?
the client paid, the other 4.66 billion people on the internet did not.
Edited by curdmudgeon 1/6/2022 12:40 PM
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| curdmudgeon - 1/6/2022 12:39 PM
of course clients will not keep info "entirely to themselves" - that is not my argument at all. friends and family is different that the entire internet, eh?
the client paid, the other 4.66 billion people on the internet did not.
This is the way I look at it. I am sure guides expect you to return, fish the spots with a couple buddies, etc. They are not expecting a how-to video online where anyone fishing the area can access that information. |
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Posts: 188
| We hired a flats guide in Florida two years ago and I brought my Gopro box along. Before opening the box I asked him if it was okay if I took some video. he said absolutely not and I had no problem with that. He went on to say he had worked years to find these spots and the background would make it obvious to anyone where we were fishing. |
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Posts: 20179
Location: oswego, il | If he was filming with the guide then the guide knew what was up. He burned his own spots. |
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Posts: 1970
| ^ that's funny, talking pretty big water on FL flats.. many musky guides are fishing lakes under 2000 acres and GoPro everything...how/why would clients, clients friends, and their cousins brothers uncle not go back to the spots? ...just the times we live in now...I switched to fishing deeper than most many years ago..see more pressure deep too, not many secrets anymore. |
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Posts: 1668
| IMO it wouldn't take long to sort out who wanted a guide trip from the guy who was coming back tomorrow to make a video. I understand why a guide might get angry but hey, he took the money. Maybe the guide needs to do a better job of vetting his clients wants and intentions?
Anyway, it's winternet, a question designed to start a brawl. lol |
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Posts: 24
Location: Southern WI | The guide must’ve been at least somewhat cool with it or either filming would’ve stopped, trip would’ve ended, or they would’ve ended up fishing some very #*#*ty spots. Take away a few specific details and this is actually what a lot of guides do nowadays. Personally I’m against giving the farm away so to speak but it’s the age we live in. As a client I wouldn’t have the balls to even ask the guide to film the entire trip and if I were a guide I’d request filming to be kept to minimum.
Edited by civil twilight 1/6/2022 2:50 PM
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Posts: 591
Location: Duluth | The most important quetion is was the client a MI member just trying to show off all the good work we do stocking these darn things. |
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Posts: 480
Location: NW WI | Sounds like the guide got himself some free advertising without any extra effort on his personal behalf. |
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Posts: 61
| He had to have known what was going on... |
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Posts: 43
| Yea he had to have known what the guy was going to do with the video. Or at least there was a solid chance he would not just view privately and would share it.
All this Muskie YouTube stuff is getting very watered down. I really enjoyed it a couple years ago, but not so much anymore. I think Wegner and Burning Eights are good. But other than that, I pretty much only watch Keyes. I can only watch so many Northern Wisconsin videos before they are just all identical. |
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Posts: 32792
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | JAKET - 1/7/2022 11:26 AM
Yea he had to have known what the guy was going to do with the video. Or at least there was a solid chance he would not just view privately and would share it.
All this Muskie YouTube stuff is getting very watered down. I really enjoyed it a couple years ago, but not so much anymore. I think Wegner and Burning Eights are good. But other than that, I pretty much only watch Keyes. I can only watch so many Northern Wisconsin videos before they are just all identical. \-------------------
There's a concept out there that if you make the videos people will watch, and the next social media star will be born. There's also the idea the revenue will support the shooting, travel, boat expenses, gear expenses, etc. and that takes a LOT of views. Sponsorship is everything, and that takes a ton of views to hang on to. Not an easy gig.
Most have zero idea how to promote the channel, so growth is slow and sometimes painful. That's part of what OFM does for a living, and even when we suggest entering the process at a couple hundred a month, it's usually crickets.
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Posts: 357
| guides kind of burn out spots by taking out fisherman everyday. your realistically showing hundreds of people a year spots to catch fish. i dont really think it makes any difference in this case. if im tournament fishing and your riding along that is different
when they burn out local stuff they just go to LSC lol. |
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Posts: 426
| You paid for his knowledge and experiences where, when and how to catch fish. Once they except the cash their knowledge is now yours to do with what you see fit. Post it or keep it. You paid your money now it's your choice |
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