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| Yeah, most of my colleagues in healthcare have faced some form of furlough because they make their money on electives, not filling up their ICUs. In Minnesota alone the lockdown cost healthcare in the realm of $3 billion. Also, I find it hilarious that people think a death certificate is something so easily manipulated. It is a legal document that a corner in every single county of this country must complete (not the healthcare systems). I suppose that all of them along with others around the globe are in on this conspiracy, right? Why are we not questioning heart attacks deaths or cancer deaths? Seems like a lot of money to be made there too right? |
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| The thing that always confuses me when people say this I all about the bengamins... Hasn't it cost your country like 3-4 trillion dollers??? |
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| As far as health care providers, my extended family has a lot of health care workers, RNs, Physical Therapist, Occupational Therapists, operating room tech, Physicians Assistant and all have experienced furloughs, reduced hours. Seem to be getting back to normal but for a couple months, nothing much was happening. My sister in law has been an operating room tech for almost 40 years at one of the larger hospitals in WI and she said it was by far the slowest time in memory. No elective surgeries for almost 2 months. She volunteered to take some reduced hours because the younger employees needed the hours more.
One of my nieces is an RN and charge nurse in large maternity ward in MN and she said even there they saw fewer patient days because they were discharging new moms so quickly. That one kind of surprised me. I am guessing not just hospitals but doctors have also taken big financial hits. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | KingT - 8/11/2020 3:48 PM
The thing that always confuses me when people say this I all about the bengamins... Hasn't it cost your country like 3-4 trillion dollers???
Competing interests capitalizing best as they can in this mess. |
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| sworrall - 8/11/2020 4:31 PM
KingT - 8/11/2020 3:48 PM
The thing that always confuses me when people say this I all about the bengamins... Hasn't it cost your country like 3-4 trillion dollers???
Competing interests capitalizing best as they can in this mess.
Messy now but wait until the fight starts over who is first in line to get any possible vaccine. There will be a priority order established by science, another by political pull. |
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| This whole Covid event needs one giant audit at the end. |
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| Bondy - 8/11/2020 5:10 PM
This whole Covid event needs one giant audit at the end.
Amen. Just look at the Kodak loan business. And no BS kind of congressional audit by congressmen needing donations. Get the bank examiners involved. They can follow a nickel through 20 pair of hands. |
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| Bondy - 8/11/2020 6:10 PM
This whole Covid event needs one giant audit at the end.
It should end up with countless perp walks and people being forced out of their positions and publicly ridiculed. Alas I believe that is only in my dreams though. |
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Location: oswego, il | zombietrolling - 8/11/2020 8:11 PM
Bondy - 8/11/2020 6:10 PM
This whole Covid event needs one giant audit at the end.
It should end up with countless perp walks and people being forced out of their positions and publicly ridiculed. Alas I believe that is only in my dreams though.
Along with the conspiracy news. |
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Along with the conspiracy news.
Amen to that brother. In this day in age with social media everything becomes a conspiracy. Almost like we are living in the matrix. Nothing happens by chance. And we are lied to about every aspect of life. 5g is gonna kill us, Bill gates is responsible for covid, president Bush did 9/11...global warming is a lie .... It's essentially everything in our world. Maybe I'm wrong but I still believe there is some good left in humanity and our leaders. That's some of what we are told is the truth. I sure hope to God that I am right. Because if there are no people out there that still have a soul and aren't driven strictly by momey. We are F@C#ED |
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Location: Bloomington, IL | raftman - 8/11/2020 3:00 PM
Nupe - 8/11/2020
The reason why these #s are being inflated all come back to money...COVID cases = money for hospitals/medical facilities, etc. for anything COVID...the more severe the case, the more money they receive. So, you do the math.
Not really. I work for a healthcare system who’s revenue losses were in the hundreds of millions of dollars. Things have steadied since more normal business has started up again. Healthcare makes more money without covid than it does with.
Agree, hospitals lost a lot of revenue, due to the shutdowns of normal operations from not being able to do things like elective surgeries, which did result in furloughs. I wasn’t stating that hospitals are making more money from COVID than normal operations, because that’s not true. I’ll retract this part of my statement “the more severe the case, the more money they receive”, but hospitals do receive more money for patients diagnosed with COVID than not diagnosed with COVID. So, #s are being skewed because there is incentive to report a case as COVID.
And completely agree with Bondy on one big giant audit at the end, but unfortunately, it will never happen.
Regardless, just hope a vaccine comes quicker rather than later because of the sense of relief it will likely bring a lot of people...so far tests/trials look promising.
Edited by Nupe 8/12/2020 8:05 AM
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Location: Chisholm, MN | The thing that burns me most is canceling "elective" surgeries. There are so many people that NEEDED the elective surgeries and are now suffering greatly because of this. But a government gets to decide who gets health care and who doesn't when there is an overblown pandemic! You should never trust the government. |
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Location: Ashland WI | KingT - 8/12/2020 7:15 AM
Along with the conspiracy news.
Amen to that brother. In this day in age with social media everything becomes a conspiracy. Almost like we are living in the matrix. Nothing happens by chance. And we are lied to about every aspect of life. 5g is gonna kill us, Bill gates is responsible for covid, president Bush did 9/11...global warming is a lie .... It's essentially everything in our world. Maybe I'm wrong but I still believe there is some good left in humanity and our leaders. That's some of what we are told is the truth. I sure hope to God that I am right. Because if there are no people out there that still have a soul and aren't driven strictly by momey. We are F@C#ED
IMO this goes back to what Steve said about "news" (entertainment) sources. We need to keep in mind each source is doing what they think is best to sell more. |
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| Kirby Budrow - 8/12/2020 8:49 AM
The thing that burns me most is canceling "elective" surgeries. There are so many people that NEEDED the elective surgeries and are now suffering greatly because of this. But a government gets to decide who gets health care and who doesn't when there is an overblown pandemic! You should never trust the government.
Those decisions were made by the health care institutions, not the government, at least here in WI. Again, have multiple family members working in health care and in each case, it was the hospital's decision. Two of them, a sister in law and a niece, work in operating rooms as an operating room tech and a Physicians Assistant respectively, and it was their employer's decision to cancel elective surgeries. The fear is that should COVID spread in a hospital setting, it would kill a lot of vulnerable patients. The government issued guidelines, recommendations, but the institutions made the final decision. |
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| Electives were restricted by many states, but just during the original surge - and for good reason given the extremely limited capacity for treating seriously ill patients. Those restrictions do not exist today, the bigger challenge is that people are avoiding clinic/hospital visits for preventive screening and even for serious issues because of their own concerns/lack of insurance because of losing a job, not the government. |
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Location: WI | Nupe - 8/12/2020 7:56 AM
raftman - 8/11/2020 3:00 PM
Nupe - 8/11/2020
The reason why these #s are being inflated all come back to money...COVID cases = money for hospitals/medical facilities, etc. for anything COVID...the more severe the case, the more money they receive. So, you do the math.
Not really. I work for a healthcare system who’s revenue losses were in the hundreds of millions of dollars. Things have steadied since more normal business has started up again. Healthcare makes more money without covid than it does with.
Agree, hospitals lost a lot of revenue, due to the shutdowns of normal operations from not being able to do things like elective surgeries, which did result in furloughs. I wasn’t stating that hospitals are making more money from COVID than normal operations, because that’s not true. I’ll retract this part of my statement “the more severe the case, the more money they receive”, but hospitals do receive more money for patients diagnosed with COVID than not diagnosed with COVID. So, #s are being skewed because there is incentive to report a case as COVID.
And completely agree with Bondy on one big giant audit at the end, but unfortunately, it will never happen.
Regardless, just hope a vaccine comes quicker rather than later because of the sense of relief it will likely bring a lot of people...so far tests/trials look promising.
I’m not denying that some fraud could be happening, but to the extent that would have any meaningful impact on the numbers being reported is just not possible. The electronic trail left from placement of order to result posting to a patient chart is heavily audited and very easy to recover. The labs in these healthcare systems are heavily regulated. The coordination and number of people required to create such massive fraud would not be worth the couple extra dollars for a covid patient. |
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Location: MN | This thing has made me realize two things:
1. Mainstream media has an extremely large amount of control over people's thoughts and feelings.
2. A lot of people lack the mental ability to look at facts and come to their own conclusion. Even people that seem fairly level headed and sharp.
Agree with Bondy, we need an audit at the end of this. I predict years from now, we will look back on Covid as the biggest over reaction by our country and our world.
Quarantining the healthy to protect the vulnerable has never been done in history. There is a reason for that. |
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| Over reaction? This will be the third leading cause of death in the U.S this year, and it didn't even start impacting people widespread until well into March. Also, we learned the value of social distancing from the last pandemic in 1918, so yes it has been done before...and it has been done in other countries that have had to manage outbreaks of SARS, etc. Out of curiosity, what is the reasonable response to a disease that will kill in the neighborhood of 300,000 Americans in a 12 month period? |
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Location: oswego, il | What I have learned from this is conspiracy media will twist this to fit their agenda. Marxist could be a drinking game. Seen it compared to men's breast cancer, called a hoax, sent here to rig the election. Misinformation is real and unfortunately bought by many without second thought. Most of it can be debunked by a simple Google search. |
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Location: Bloomington, IL | Agree raftman, however, being able to report a case or death as COVID in such fashion, whether it truly is or it isn't, is being done so under the CDC's guidelines as it says as much on the CDC's website. It's layered within the many links on the website, but it's there, I read if for myself. So, that's the out for them, if you will, of not fraudulently reporting a case/death as COVID, thus why #s are skewed by a fair amount.
Nershio's right on about the MSM trying to largely control people's thoughts and feelings by driving narratives and fearmongering, preying on people's mental and/or physical ability to look at facts and come to their own conclusion...can't tell you how many times the MSM over and over and over again reports with slanted headlines and/or false stories only to be caught, but then barely acknowledge let alone retract their lies. The MSM media jumps on bandwagons and "reports" without vetting anymore...I'll just leave it at that. Like I said, the MSM is the most divisive institution in the country, PERIOD. Social Media is right there with the MSM though with how destructive it has become for society.
I'm ready to be socially distant in my boat this fall.
Edited by Nupe 8/12/2020 1:39 PM
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Location: WI | Criticisms of MSM are absolutely fair. Today’s “news” is nothing more than opinion and commentary and should be consumed as such. I’m in 100% agreement that all should wear masks but I almost feel like not wearing one sometimes just because I’m so tired of the shaming that goes on in the media. |
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| sworrall - 8/11/2020 11:28 AM
Makes little difference which vaccine is first or where it comes from. Distribution in the needed numbers does, however. I'm hoping several effective vaccines can be ready for use soon, and it looks really good. So does advancing treatment possibility.
The US is doing what it can:
https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2020/08/07/fact-sheet-explaining-oper...
Canada has been conducting trials/studies regarding acquiring vaccines some from various sources as well.
https://pharmaphorum.com/news/canada-joins-covid-19-vaccine-race-aft...
https://www.canada.ca/en/innovation-science-economic-development/new...
Until we have the curve dropped off considerably here, I don't see any reason Canada is likely to open borders. That's reaaaaalllllyyyy bad for resorts and tourist trade up there for sure. Many will not survive, and that's not good for NW Ontario's future tourism economy. The resorts up there need help and from my conversations with AML they are not getting it. It's not pretty no matter what angle one looks at but it very simply is what it is. I have not been within less than 6' from another person other than Sue and Keith since March. It sucks. I don't give a crap about arguments or politics, anti-organ rejection therapy and added steroid treatment has me in a position where I have to be responsible for my own health, and I'm quite serious about it. I don't care what anyone else does either, that's up to them to decide and deal with the consequences just like anything in life in the US. Democracy is messy and as the population grows will get a hell of a lot messier.
All depends on what your definition of 'soon' is. Goldman Sachs has one of the more aggressive vaccine/overall economic outlooks I've come across, and they predict a vaccine will be approved by year end 2020 and widely distributable by the end of the 2nd quarter 2021 - - so close to a year from now.
Monoclonal antibodies and other forms of treatment, at this point, are further along than vaccines (from a trial perspective). Some of these antibodies that stop the cytokine storm could be game changers for those most at risk from a health perspective. |
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| KingT - 8/12/2020 7:15 AM
Along with the conspiracy news.
Amen to that brother. In this day in age with social media everything becomes a conspiracy. Almost like we are living in the matrix. Nothing happens by chance. And we are lied to about every aspect of life. 5g is gonna kill us, Bill gates is responsible for covid, president Bush did 9/11...global warming is a lie .... It's essentially everything in our world. Maybe I'm wrong but I still believe there is some good left in humanity and our leaders. That's some of what we are told is the truth. I sure hope to God that I am right. Because if there are no people out there that still have a soul and aren't driven strictly by momey. We are F@C#ED
The whole Bill Gates/virus conspiracy theory is so far beyond stupid. If anyone thinks that theory has legs, then I have a T-Bird country bridge you'd be real interested in buying.
Gates was so far out ahead of this pandemic. This clip was from 2015, I believe.. It's worth a quick watch. The world needs more people like him in it from both an intellectual and charitable standpoint.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Af6b_wyiwI |
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Location: oswego, il | Conspiracy media has been far more destructive over the past 35 years dividing this country, PERIOD. Main stream media will always follow and compete for the hottest topic. That's never changed. Not a conspiracy. Morton Downey Jr. Was one of the first conspiracy media hosts. Really all you need to know about it.
Edited by ToddM 8/12/2020 3:12 PM
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| Berkshire24 - 8/12/2020 2:53 PM
KingT - 8/12/2020 7:15 AM
Along with the conspiracy news.
Amen to that brother. In this day in age with social media everything becomes a conspiracy. Almost like we are living in the matrix. Nothing happens by chance. And we are lied to about every aspect of life. 5g is gonna kill us, Bill gates is responsible for covid, president Bush did 9/11...global warming is a lie .... It's essentially everything in our world. Maybe I'm wrong but I still believe there is some good left in humanity and our leaders. That's some of what we are told is the truth. I sure hope to God that I am right. Because if there are no people out there that still have a soul and aren't driven strictly by momey. We are F@C#ED
The whole Bill Gates/virus conspiracy theory is so far beyond stupid. If anyone thinks that theory has legs, then I have a T-Bird country bridge you'd be real interested in buying.
Gates was so far out ahead of this pandemic. This clip was from 2015, I believe.. It's worth a quick watch. The world needs more people like him in it from both an intellectual and charitable standpoint.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Af6b_wyiwI
NPR played the interview with Gates from 2015 this morning, where he stated that world would be facing a pandemic and that we were not prepared to do so. |
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Location: Ashland WI | ToddM - 8/12/2020 3:10 PM
Conspiracy media has been far more destructive over the past 35 years dividing this country, PERIOD. Main stream media will always follow and compete for the hottest topic. That's never changed. Not a conspiracy. Morton Downey Jr. Was one of the first conspiracy media hosts. Really all you need to know about it.
Todd... Is the conspiracy media still all one sided? Or have you changed at all on that yet? |
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Location: NorthCentral WI | Call me a conspiracy theorist if you want but you can't tell me the following is completely untrue:
https://www.banned.video/watch?id=5f31a8bddf77c4044ed49e33
BTW, who stands to make all the money from the Covid vaccine? Fauci's net worth today vs. two years from now would be interesting to know. Corruption at all levels is real.
Forget Covid. The MSM should be covering #PIZZAGATE and taking down the sick pedo elite in this country. All we hear is crickets from them. Look at Epstein's flight logs - a bunch of sickos in Hollywood and Washington. One name NOT on those logs is Trump. Clintons, Obama, Podesta, the more you read it's all very disturbing. If you don't believe there is something to the pizzagate you're naïve as heck. In addition, Biden sniffing and touching little girls is NOT normal. It's a mad, mad world. There's your conspiracy theories for today.
Tight lines...
Edited by MartinTD 8/13/2020 7:46 AM
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| MartinTD - 8/13/2020 7:32 AM
Call me a conspiracy theorist if you want but you can't tell me the following is completely untrue:
https://www.banned.video/watch?id=5f31a8bddf77c4044ed49e33
BTW, who stands to make all the money from the Covid vaccine? Fauci's net worth today vs. two years from now would be interesting to know. Corruption at all levels is real.
Forget Covid. The MSM should be covering #PIZZAGATE and taking down the sick pedo elite in this country. All we hear is crickets from them. Look at Epstein's flight logs - a bunch of sickos in Hollywood and Washington. One name NOT on those logs is Trump. Clintons, Obama, Podesta, the more you read it's all very disturbing. If you don't believe there is something to the pizzagate you're naïve as heck. In addition, Biden sniffing and touching little girls is NOT normal. It's a mad, mad world. There's your conspiracy theories for today.
You do know there are numerous photos of Trump with Epstein, right? You do know the Pizza place has no basement, right?
Tight lines... |
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Location: Vilas | WOW! I think some of you need to turn off Fox/CNN and pick up your fish pole.
MartinTD....you left out the Illuminati, skinwalker ranch, bigfoot and ufo`s....and yes, youre a conspiracy nut. You and Jesse Ventura would get along just fine |
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Location: Elroy, Wisconsin | Federal money to hospitals is not based on Covid 19 incedance period. Grants so far have been for lost revenue to help employees lost wages and hospital income shortfall.
All this speculation and calls for audits is a waste of time. I serve on a hospital board and I am familiar with finances during the pandemic. The rumors spreading is just a waste of time.
Mudpuppy |
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