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Posts: 32800
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | undersized - 10/31/2019 8:10 AM
I'm still wondering, is anyone here running non-oxygenated gasoline it their tow vehicle? A couple reasons for asking. Is the only use that non-oxygenated fuel sees is some marine and small engines? I wonder how old that stuff can get and how much is removed before a fill occurs.
I put e15 in my truck this morning. The gas mileage isn't as good but the price split from e10 today more than made up for it.
--cool, I use it in all the OFM vehicles too.
Considering the number of boats, ATVs, mowers, snowmobiles, lawnmowers, etc. that people are running on pure gas I don't worry one bit that it's getting old in the tanks at gas stations. At a remote, non-busy fishing resort somewhere? Maybe. But at a gas station in any reasonable town? No.
-Except for the fact all gasoline blends begin to break down after two weeks. Worth considering.
It's not even close to being a perfect experiment...no clue...whether it was flawed from the beginning or not.
I am still in research with different stabilizers...will hopefully have something in the future to share.
It's a lot easier to critique others than to do something yourself, isn't it? So I sure hope that you design and run a "perfect experiment." Hey, put it on YouTube and maybe you too will get 750k subscribers!
Makes your next paragraph look a little disingenuous.
If I seem a bit over passionate about the subject, that's why.
Yep, and having an explanation for it doesn't change the negative impact. A conversation where someone dominates by doing all the talking turns others off and they stop listening. Just look at the word counts in this thread. Consider the idea that's it possible to be right on the facts but still get it wrong in the messaging.
Been providing editorial comment for 20 years, and that ain't going to change to ease your angst.
Same couple guys each time we discuss ethanol.
And maybe laugh a bit instead of personalizing it when people inject a little levity into dull conversations.
When something is intended to be funny, I sometimes do if it actually is.
You should watch his windshield wiper comparison.
It's nothing but Bosch Clear Advantage for me.
I just hope the ethanol in my gas doesn't eat the rubber off the wiper blade.
Ha ha. Humor. Is that better? 
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Posts: 3472
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Quoted from Undersized...
And maybe laugh a bit instead of personalizing it when people inject a little levity into dull conversations.
Response: Then ignore the conversation and go find something else that interests you.
Curious George learns about ethanol is not in print yet. 
Edited by VMS 10/31/2019 11:12 AM
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| I fill the 30 gallon tank in my Lund each fall but have not done the same on my pontoon with a built in 35 gallon tank. We don't use the pontoon that much and it is amazing how little gas that 90hp four stroke uses at low rpms just putting along. As a result, use less than a tank of gas each season. Which is worse, potential for condensation because of half full tank or gas that sits for that long? Maybe I should be filling the pontoon as well? |
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Posts: 32800
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | According to everything I have read, stabilize and fill before storage. I think my ride is going into the Minocqua garage next week. Time to shoot some deer. |
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Posts: 3472
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | North of 8 - 10/31/2019 10:20 AM
I fill the 30 gallon tank in my Lund each fall but have not done the same on my pontoon with a built in 35 gallon tank. We don't use the pontoon that much and it is amazing how little gas that 90hp four stroke uses at low rpms just putting along. As a result, use less than a tank of gas each season. Which is worse, potential for condensation because of half full tank or gas that sits for that long? Maybe I should be filling the pontoon as well?
Hiya,
I would say the worse of the two would be bad gas. If stabilized, it would be fine. If you are using E10, condensation should never be an issue. Stabilize what you have and put it away.
Steve
Word count above: 39... including "Hiya" and "Steve"
Edited by VMS 10/31/2019 11:05 AM
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Location: 31 | North of 8 - 10/31/2019 10:20 AM
I fill the 30 gallon tank in my Lund each fall but have not done the same on my pontoon with a built in 35 gallon tank. We don't use the pontoon that much and it is amazing how little gas that 90hp four stroke uses at low rpms just putting along. As a result, use less than a tank of gas each season. Which is worse, potential for condensation because of half full tank or gas that sits for that long? Maybe I should be filling the pontoon as well?
I would be filling up with premium and draining the gas in that pontoon every fall. It's actually pretty simple to extract just using the boat motors existing line and bulb… trailer jack or a little bit of an incline is all it takes for gravity do its thing. I've done this many times in the past and just put the old gas in my other vehicles.
Regarding E-15; some of my company vehicles can run on it and my ever mindful superintendent was using it to save the company money. He has a large heavy vehicle and after several of the idiot lights came on, we took it our mechanic and he recommended not using the E-15. We went back to the E-10 and the lights never came back on, he says the vehicle runs better and gets better mpg now too.
Edited by Jerry Newman 10/31/2019 11:05 AM
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Posts: 93
| Ha ha. Humor. Is that better?
It's not worse...unlike:
VMS - 10/31/2019 10:18 AM
Response: Then ignore the conversation and go find something else that interests you.
"Go directly to jokey joke jail. Do not pass Go. Do not collect 20 dollars."
More seriously, no one really needs convincing on this which is why coming off the top rope seems like such an over-reaction and generates some snark in response. The small number of people who are pure gas die-hards isn't significant, and those running it in small engines like mowers and outboards don't add up to much at all on a fuel markets level. I just don't understand getting so incensed about a small impact choice by a limited number of people. Biofuel demand is at an all time high in the U.S. (over 10% total blend) in spite of the impact of small refinery exemptions and the first ethanol production drop in 20 years. So while that might have corn farmers and ethanol plant workers upset (I listen to farm country radio news), the gas market is clearly integrating it just fine because the engine technology handles it just fine.
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Posts: 3472
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Undersized,
that particular comment to you was no joke. Curious George learns of ethanol...most definitely a joke. There IS a difference...
And on the more serious note... This information IS important as there is so much misinformation out there that people continue to believe. Is this a smaller niche of people who have boats, etc? Sure is...but it does not negate the fact that the misinformation is out there and continues to be spread.
It still comes down in the end to one key concept: stabilize your fuel and maintain your fuel system regardless of what fuel you choose to use.
Steve
Edited by VMS 10/31/2019 11:46 AM
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Posts: 32800
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | undersized - 10/31/2019 11:24 AM
Ha ha. Humor. Is that better?
It's not worse...unlike:
VMS - 10/31/2019 10:18 AM
Response: Then ignore the conversation and go find something else that interests you.
"Go directly to jokey joke jail. Do not pass Go. Do not collect 20 dollars."
More seriously, no one really needs convincing on this which is why coming off the top rope seems like such an over-reaction and generates some snark in response. The small number of people who are pure gas die-hards isn't significant, and those running it in small engines like mowers and outboards don't add up to much at all on a fuel markets level. I just don't understand getting so incensed about a small impact choice by a limited number of people. Biofuel demand is at an all time high in the U.S. (over 10% total blend ) in spite of the impact of small refinery exemptions and the first ethanol production drop in 20 years. So while that might have corn farmers and ethanol plant workers upset (I listen to farm country radio news ), the gas market is clearly integrating it just fine because the engine technology handles it just fine.
We are discussing a segment of the market especially sensitive to misinformation and generalization.
I work in that segment every day. Easy to identify and speak to, but only with a venue. I'm fortunate enough to have one. Plenty of politics you may not know about, but there, active, and spending lots of lots of dollars to keep up the misinformation campaigns none the less.
I'm pretty sure VMS was not being humorous. Neither was I. Please drop all the personal #*#* and perhaps we can collectively get back to any substantive discussion we might wish to. |
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Posts: 3472
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Jerry Newman - 10/31/2019 11:04 AM
Regarding E-15; some of my company vehicles can run on it and my ever mindful superintendent was using it to save the company money. He has a large heavy vehicle and after several of the idiot lights came on, we took it our mechanic and he recommended not using the E-15. We went back to the E-10 and the lights never came back on, he says the vehicle runs better and gets better mpg now too.
The better mileage makes sense, but it's interesting how the lights all came on....did he elaborate at all as to what trouble codes came up?
Steve |
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Location: 31 | VMS - 11/1/2019 11:47 AM
Jerry Newman - 10/31/2019 11:04 AM
Regarding E-15; some of my company vehicles can run on it and my ever mindful superintendent was using it to save the company money. He has a large heavy vehicle and after several of the idiot lights came on, we took it our mechanic and he recommended not using the E-15. We went back to the E-10 and the lights never came back on, he says the vehicle runs better and gets better mpg now too.
The better mileage makes sense, but it's interesting how the lights all came on....did he elaborate at all as to what trouble codes came up?
Steve
I just talked to my superintendent and he said it was oxygen sensor light (s?). He said the vehicle (loaded 2015? cutaway F-450) was bogging down, almost like the transmission was slipping. I'm not in the office much or involved in the day to day stuff much anymore, so not sure what our mechanic said or did to repair. But I do remember it wasn't much, and he attributed the issue to the E-15. No problems since using the E-10.
When I travel I'll put the stuff in rental cars, but not using it in my own or company vehicles now. |
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Posts: 32800
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Been using it since it became available with no issues. Honda CRV, Toyota Tundra, and Toyota Camry. Deer, on the other hand, have wrecked 4 for us now. |
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Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Steve,
You need to get in the Woods and take down a few of those "Car Destroyers"
Eliminate the threat.
VMS knows his shnit. |
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Location: 31 | sworrall - 11/1/2019 4:03 PM
Been using it since it became available with no issues. Honda CRV, Toyota Tundra, and Toyota Camry. Deer, on the other hand, have wrecked 4 for us now.
Perhaps it was because it was a large mostly fully loaded vehicle?
From my seat here the difference in price between E 15 and 10 is not much, especially after factoring in E 15 getting less mpg.
With the 10 it “might” run a little better, and I won't have to stop for gas as often. |
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Posts: 3472
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Hi Jerry,
That is about the only thing I can think of in that the vehicle is fully loaded, putting what very well could be the maximum load on the engine. Maybe the amount of fuel needed and burned with E15 is creating an oxygen level somehow outside of the parameters of the sensor setting off the light? Definitely puzzling. |
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Posts: 1516
| sworrall - 10/30/2019 6:49 PM
4amuskie - 10/30/2019 3:30 PM
Pepper - 10/30/2019 10:30 AM
Good question I wonder sometimes about filling up with non oxy fuel come spring Since it is not to be used in vehicles how old is it come May1st.
Not to worry. They always mix the non oxy with the E10 so the non oxy is always fresh fuel. You sure dont think they throw it out when it gets old do you.
That would be bad.
Steve , you said that mixing non oxy with E-10 would be bad. I don’t disagree but I have added e/10 into the tank that has non oxy and visa versa It appears I should stick with one or the other. |
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Posts: 3472
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Hiya,
I believe he is referring to being bad if a fuel station took old non-oxy fuel out of one holding tank and mixed it with fuel in another holding tank.
Steve
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Posts: 1516
| Yes I agree that’s what he was referring to. I guess mine was a new question about mixing the gas already in the tank. |
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Posts: 3472
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Hiya,
If one fuel is already in your tank and you add the other to that tank, there should be no issue, so long as you are meeting minimum octane requirements for your engine. If the fuel in the tank has sat for any major length of time without stabilization, that could potentially be problematic
If I had left over gas from an outboard tank at the end of the year, I'd dump it in my automobile as the fuel will be quite diluted given the fuel tank on the auto is larger.
Steve |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | When you buy mid grade gas in Canada and i would guess the states as well the pump blends the two and gives you aprox. 5% ethanol ( with the hi test being ethanol free I have noticed some brands have started adding ethanol to hi test. The pump will say if it contains ethanol. )
Edited by horsehunter 11/13/2019 6:53 AM
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Location: 31 | VMS - 11/13/2019 5:56 AM
If I had left over gas from an outboard tank at the end of the year, I'd dump it in my automobile as the fuel will be quite diluted given the fuel tank on the auto is larger.
Steve
x2 have done this many times with older gas without issue. |
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