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Posts: 239
Location: Elroy, Wisconsin | I have put two decent muskies in my boat so far this year 47, 49, and saw two giants in very shallow water. (less than 2 ft,) For hours fished there has been very little action otherwise in the shallows. These rock bars go out to twenty feet, some gradual, some sharp drops.
How deep would you fish them for more contact with more fish. When they are not shallows? I know they are somewhere, but my partner makes a huge mistake ,rushing off to another spot and again not see any shallow fish. He says only active muskies are shallow so we keep pounding a not seeing fish.
Mudpuppy |
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Posts: 2687
Location: Hayward, WI | It's hard to guess accurately without knowing the lake (how clear is the water, what is the forage, what are the water temps?), but they could be anywhere from the top to at the bottom transition in 20+ feet! During the summer, on the clearer waters I tend to fish in WI, I'd tend to spend more time in the 15-20 foot area than up on top. If it's a shallow stained flowage, I might start towards the top, and work my way deeper.
The short answer, but long time on the water, is you might have to fish shallow, deep, and in between to figure it out. |
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Posts: 239
Location: Elroy, Wisconsin | Thanks Curlytail, LOTW. We spend way too much time on top of the rock bars in my opinion. How many of you experts fish the deeper end of rock bars more so than the shallow end? Especially during sunny conditions...
Mudpuppy |
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Posts: 44
Location: Ohio | I think it would be good to fish both the shallow and deep side. And on the deep side try shallow and deeper running baits. |
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Posts: 29
Location: Okauchee, WI | I frequent deep clear lakes because I ain't right. I myself start deeper and work shallower unless there is a compelling reason to start on top. Like a late October warm snap or such. Like CT says, time on that water.
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Posts: 607
Location: S.W. WI | I dont think your partner is necessarily making a "huge mistake" by covering more water on Lake of the Woods fishing shallow bars. That has proven a very successful method for many people for many years. However, given what you've said..- Why not try working along the break and one guy cast up towards the shallow tops and one throw out and along the drop with Dawgs or deeper running stuff? Switch off who casts in or out till you figure something out.
Edited by Rudedog 8/11/2015 5:42 AM
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Posts: 2687
Location: Hayward, WI | LOTW is a whole different world than most of the lakes I fish in WI. I just got back from there and most of the fish we caught came from shallow rock, including a big one. There is most likely some fish hanging around the deeper water off those bars, but it's been a pretty proven strategy to fish shallow rock on the water.
One thing you could try is banging a deep running crank off the shallow rock, and cranking it deeper once it clears the bar. I did this a fair amount last week, and will say the fish I caught doing it all came while the bait was banging the shallow rock.
Tucker |
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Posts: 1767
Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | There's plenty of fish to be found on rock extensions in deeper water, so your buddy saying "only active shallow" is incorrect. However, we have seen and caught big fish over the years in many, many spots of 1-2 feet of water. Try both,but don't assume some instant magic is going to happen by skipping shallow rocks, especially ones that are closer to shore
Edited by Musky Brian 8/11/2015 7:50 AM
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Posts: 732
| There is a lot of good advice here, but also include the wind. When the wind is blowing hard over those rock bars, the shallower I will fish them. The calmer days, I'll go deep. Kdawg
Edited by kdawg 8/11/2015 10:48 AM
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Posts: 8719
| We often start out a cast length and then go in shallow if we don't see anything. We've caught fish doing both and a surprising number of fish on the third go around working parallel to the bars running baits down each edge instead of throwing at it.
You may not be missing a lot of fish running and gunning, but our largest fish on rocks have come after we decided to hit them from a different angle after we had fished through the spot once or twice.
It's a difficult thing to stand there casting at water you know you've already covered, especially when conventional wisdom tells you that you'd have seen the fish already if there was one there, but "a few more casts" have led me to a 45", 47" and a 48" fish over the years, and numerous fish caught by others just about the time we were all convinced there was "nobody home"...
Now... We could have gone elsewhere and contacted an equal number of active fish, or even some bigger ones. There's wisdom in that, and I won't argue with it. But a few guys I fish with will work an area way past when you think you should be elsewhere, and it does often work.
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Posts: 409
Location: Almond, WI | Sometimes it works well to drift right over the shallowest part and cast off the side--fish don't see the angle often and often sit on the first little drop from the peak. |
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Posts: 2687
Location: Hayward, WI | I think a key thing from several of these posts is - there's no one right answer. On our trip last week I caught one banging a Depthraider on rock reefs that were probably 3 or 4 feet deep, and lost a couple others during flat calm, high sun, blue sky conditions. I will certanly agree that wind over the shallow stuff usually helps but it isn't always necessary.
And sometimes the fish are probably off the deeper edges. On the WI lakes I normally fish, that seems to be the case more often than not, but in Canada, it does seem to be the norm to run and gun the shallow stuff in the summer - right or wrong. |
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Posts: 357
| a little off topic for deep / shallow...but rock bars are the one place I really like gliders on LOTW and similar. Especially the real clean bouldery ones. The glider very efficiently covers the bar and allows a fish time to find it. I always called it crossing the T's, when your cast can cross the bar. |
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Posts: 97
Location: Tulsa, OK | I like to work the most wind blown section of the reef first, then go back around with a different bait. If I am fishing around dark, then I will also run something like a Top Raider parallel and almost right on the reef. I have had good success on the deep end of it with a deeper running bucktail like a Mepps Magnum when the fish do not show right away or on the shallow end of the reef. Being a runner and gunner, I sometimes feel I move too quickly without effectively covering the structure, probably costing myself more fish in the process. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | as mentioned muskies will hold everywhere from the very top/shallow water all the way around and out the deep spines/ points etc... we saw muskies on the locator on LOTW last week that were holding deeper.. .they will move up and down the structure all day/night... there can be fish holding shallow and others holding deep at the same time/spot... keep that in mind too...we tend to run and gun and fish rock bars shallower looking for active fish.. while the fish holding deeper can and do bite imo they aren't as "active" as the ones on top...it takes banging rocks and getting in their face to get them to hit... ie, the strike zone is probably smaller = less active... we have caught fish doing this but you have to slow down and we tend to run spots fast looking for the most active fish... at times backing off structure is the key ..just depends on the fishes mood that hour/day
Edited by BNelson 8/12/2015 12:04 PM
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Posts: 512
| Ok, heres a dumb question for you guys.
Is a rock bar the same as a reef? |
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Posts: 1970
| A reef to me is a high spot in the lake (or ocean) but completely submerged, you could have a reef 20 ft down surround by 100 feet of water, reefs could be rock or sand or mud ..... a rock bar extends off land most commonly a main lake point and off the tips of islands... but the two terms are often used loosely as the same when talking muskies. |
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Posts: 512
| ah ok
kind of what i was thinking
thanks |
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Posts: 1185
Location: Iowa | ill usually put the boat just outside the primary break so my baits are hitting just inside the edge of the blonde or right on it. If I start seeing huge arches on my graph every so often I will back the boat out to the secondary break so my baits are hitting just inside where the boat was previously. Shallow or deep you're bound to see fish either way. |
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Posts: 331
Location: Stevens Point, Wisconsin | Rock reefs and rock bars/ complexes can really be interesting on lotw. 10-15 years ago when there were great weed beds the pressure was more spread out and the rocks didn't receive as much pressure as they do now, so that is part of it. Meaning that prime rock spots are getting pounded causing fish to slide a bit deeper off the structure.
My experience on rock structure on lotw is that normally speaking wind (south, SW or SE direction preferred) brings fish shallow and active. Generally speaking flat calm sunny days will cause fish to slide to the base of the point or shelf on the structure. Those fish are accessible and catchable if you have the patience to throw crank baits and jerk baits as well as rubber around the rock structure probing the deeper area's. I am a run and gun guy but over the last 5 years I have slowed down and covered the flat calm sunny rock spots more efficiently and effectively putting more fish and big fish in the net. I will usually start shallow and work the shallow structure with bucktails or top water and make an additional pass out deeper if the no fish are shallow. Suicks, Big Games, etc worked down 6-10 feet will surprise you when you think no fish are active on the spot. Something to consider when you watch a boat burning double 10's across a popular spot....let them zoom off and come behind them and score.
Late summer mid Aug and after....lot of rock spots don't get going until after noon due to the cooler nights and shorter days. Many spots will seem to be holding no fish in the morning or late morning, so either probe deep around the structure or come back late in the day!
I have had days out there that it's 90 and sunny and no wind and fish are climbing all over shallow rock.....then the next day is identical and nothing is shallow but they are still there, just a bit deeper!
One thing to look for as well would be long spines that tapper out into deep water with a shelf or hump at the tip before dropping off to deep water. You might want to check spots like that out!
Ed |
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Posts: 1767
Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | MuskyTime - 8/18/2015 12:18 PM
Rock reefs and rock bars/ complexes can really be interesting on lotw. 10-15 years ago when there were great weed beds the pressure was more spread out and the rocks didn't receive as much pressure as they do now, so that is part of it. Meaning that prime rock spots are getting pounded causing fish to slide a bit deeper off the structure.
My experience on rock structure on lotw is that normally speaking wind (south, SW or SE direction preferred) brings fish shallow and active. Generally speaking flat calm sunny days will cause fish to slide to the base of the point or shelf on the structure. Those fish are accessible and catchable if you have the patience to throw crank baits and jerk baits as well as rubber around the rock structure probing the deeper area's. I am a run and gun guy but over the last 5 years I have slowed down and covered the flat calm sunny rock spots more efficiently and effectively putting more fish and big fish in the net. I will usually start shallow and work the shallow structure with bucktails or top water and make an additional pass out deeper if the no fish are shallow. Suicks, Big Games, etc worked down 6-10 feet will surprise you when you think no fish are active on the spot. Something to consider when you watch a boat burning double 10's across a popular spot....let them zoom off and come behind them and score.
Late summer mid Aug and after....lot of rock spots don't get going until after noon due to the cooler nights and shorter days. Many spots will seem to be holding no fish in the morning or late morning, so either probe deep around the structure or come back late in the day!
I have had days out there that it's 90 and sunny and no wind and fish are climbing all over shallow rock.....then the next day is identical and nothing is shallow but they are still there, just a bit deeper!
One thing to look for as well would be long spines that tapper out into deep water with a shelf or hump at the tip before dropping off to deep water. You might want to check spots like that out!
Ed
Very, very good post |
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Posts: 239
Location: Elroy, Wisconsin | Thanks to all for your thoughtful and helpful responses.
Mudpuppy |
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