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Posts: 32798
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Sue and I fish that water weekly in the soft water season. The fishing is nothing short of fantastic, just not for walleyes. I don't fish it for muskies, but get a few every year on Creatures fishing bass.
We used to ice fish it for walleyes, and caught both numbers and size. We still have the tip-ups down, and still are jigging, but bass have replaced walleyes almost exactly in the catch ratio and size. |
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Posts: 27
| CiscoKid - 2/17/2015 6:27 PM
ToddM - 2/17/2015 6:18 PM
I keep bringing this up because you seem to indicate trolling =automatic success. It does not.
That is not my intent at all, and I am well aware that trolling is not easy and mindless. There are plenty of unethical, meat hunter type anglers that are very good fisherman. They will do well trolling as well, and that is my concern.
So because of some unethical fishermen, we should should deny everyone else the opportunity to troll? This not a technique problem. Its a social problem. Call the wardens. I have a cabin near Eagle River and know this is a problem. But when the editor of the Vilas County Review in response to the panfish limits says we go to hot lake until the bite dyes and then move onto the next lake, its tough to get anything to change. |
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | Millsie1 - 2/19/2015 9:40 AM
CiscoKid - 2/17/2015 6:27 PM
ToddM - 2/17/2015 6:18 PM
I keep bringing this up because you seem to indicate trolling =automatic success. It does not.
That is not my intent at all, and I am well aware that trolling is not easy and mindless. There are plenty of unethical, meat hunter type anglers that are very good fisherman. They will do well trolling as well, and that is my concern.
So because of some unethical fishermen, we should should deny everyone else the opportunity to troll?
YES, if it means protecting a fishery until the other issues can get in check! I am not concerned about making it fair for everyone and limiting opportunity. I am concerned about the fishery first as we all should.
Those "some unethical fisherman", unfortunately, are more than just some. |
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Posts: 8719
| Millsie1 - 2/19/2015 9:40 AM
CiscoKid - 2/17/2015 6:27 PM
ToddM - 2/17/2015 6:18 PM
I keep bringing this up because you seem to indicate trolling =automatic success. It does not.
That is not my intent at all, and I am well aware that trolling is not easy and mindless. There are plenty of unethical, meat hunter type anglers that are very good fisherman. They will do well trolling as well, and that is my concern.
So because of some unethical fishermen, we should should deny everyone else the opportunity to troll? This not a technique problem. Its a social problem. Call the wardens. I have a cabin near Eagle River and know this is a problem. But when the editor of the Vilas County Review in response to the panfish limits says we go to hot lake until the bite dyes and then move onto the next lake, its tough to get anything to change.
There are many problems we are facing, all of which are a potential detriment to the fisheries. Spearing, tribal harvest, lack of stocking, lack of fish to stock, lack of money for either, angler harvest, delayed mortality, low size limits, limited natural reproduction, lack of enforcement, disregard for the laws, catch-and-eat mentality, AIS, increasing angling pressure, removal of spawning habitat, shoreline development...
One can call the wardens when we see abuse taking place. But they are so few and far between that by the time someone can get out there, the offenders are long gone.
Our goal for the future should be to improve those fisheries. With the myriad of problems we are facing, that are difficult if not impossible to deal with? Trolling will just provide more people with more opportunities to catch (and eat) more fish. That's not a problem is most areas where the fish will be replaced and the ecosystems will still thrive because the money exists to make that happen.
Many of the N. WI lakes have the potential to be amazing fisheries. If we could correct even a few of the other issues, I'd say troll away. I'd do it. But at this point, opening up trolling would just be another nail in the coffin. |
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Location: oswego, il | As my earlier argument stated, catching not the issue, keeping is. |
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Posts: 2005
| "YES, if it means protecting a fishery until the other issues can get in check! I am not concerned about making it fair for everyone and limiting opportunity. I am concerned about the fishery first as we all should.
Those "some unethical fisherman", unfortunately, are more than just some."
So, are you saying this is more of a problem in WI than MN? |
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Posts: 8719
| ARmuskyaddict - 2/19/2015 1:18 PM
"YES, if it means protecting a fishery until the other issues can get in check! I am not concerned about making it fair for everyone and limiting opportunity. I am concerned about the fishery first as we all should.
Those "some unethical fisherman", unfortunately, are more than just some."
So, are you saying this is more of a problem in WI than MN?
I don't know how much of a problem it is in MN, but the farther North you go in WI, the more you seem to encounter folks, especially locals, who think it's their God given right to eat every fish they catch. And if you even mention catch and release, protecting the resource, conservation, size limits, etc.?? You get an earful about how the DNR doesn't know what they are doing, how the laws are B.S., how the wardens are stupid... There's not a lot of respect for law enforcement, or law. If you push further you get the "these are MY fish" argument, and a lot of griping about how the Indians would spear and net them all anyway, and if anybody is going to eat them, it's ME.
There are conservationists, and muskies inc guys, and a few others who understand. But there are a lot more who will simply say that they've been eating fish and catching fish and eating fish forever, and the problem is the Indians and/or tourists, and the people who make the laws and enforce the laws can go pound sand.
Entitlement mentality at its finest...
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Posts: 32798
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Let's look at reality. Most of the lakes I fish for walleyes have a two fish limit, a few are one over 14" and one under. A few are two over 15". A few are 2 over 18" (not going to happen).
Trolling to catch my 2 fish or casting...it's two fish. Either way, if we want to catch two and keep them, we will and can jigging or 'position fishing'.
Most of the time we just don't fish walleyes if we are looking for a fish dinner. Bass are far more numerous and we are encouraged to keep 5. In some places, there is no size limit either. Bluegills and crappies offer lots of opportunity too, and we self limit to a half a limit for one person most days if we are keeping fish, as there's no need to freeze a bunch living up here.
I cast for muskies. I don't keep any. If I trolled for them, I'd not keep any. I think that's the majority of the muskie anglers up here.
Basin fish are already being cpr'd....regularly. Big soft plastic lures are doing the job for those who know the how and where. So all trolling really would do up here is break tradition. It's not a real biological threat to the fisheries, it's just a different way to catch fish. if you let 'em go...there's no worries. The idea every meat hound on the planet will descend upon the waters and keep every muskie they catch is weak, because they (the meat hounds) simply are not there, or we'd see 'em and the DNR would creel 'em. The poor guy who creeled Lake George a couple years ago was nearly driven mad from boredom. One can only keep one walleye over 14" on George, and one over. Who cares how I catch 'em?
The really interesting thing is we can't even get people to harvest bass up here. Either they don't know they can, or think there's some magical limit, or think they 'taste bad'.
Pike are numerous, and lots of folks keep them no matter how little, to 'pickle'. Yuck. Some lakes here need a Pike slot limit. Probably will never happen out of worries about walleye NR and stocked fish survival. We grow really big Pike up here, they just have a tough time getting by the winter anglers.
Harvest worries about Bluegills yes, crappies yes, bass no. Walleyes limited to two. No real issue other than trolling hasn't been going on up here and quite a few folks don't want it to. In a way I can't blame them.
There is no 'place' where folks violate more than others other than the fact the water with fish in it is here. Most of the time overharvest arrests are out of town folks.
The tough thing is the roving crowds looking for a hot panfish bite, summer, winter, all seasons. It's hard to keep a good panny bite a secret. So, the lakes cycle with a 5 to 6 year deal where peak, too many anglers, tougher fishing but still really good, wait a few years and peak again...and so on. The only really amazing water for pannies that just kkeps kicking them out is Minocqua, and that, I believe, is because all the ice anglers fish in one small area of each main portion. I am pretty much alone fishing pannies there in the open water. I almost never see anyone else fishing crappies. |
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Location: north central wisconsin |
"But when the editor of the Vilas County Review in response to the panfish limits says we go to hot lake until the bite dyes and then move onto the next lake, its tough to get anything to change."
Thanks you. As an avid panfisherman that has seen a definate decline in quality fishing on many lakes(not all) in my area based on harvest, I completely agree. While I am no hypocrite, keeping a meal when I can, I was 'trained' by my father to lake hop when I was a child, to give spots a break. With the advent of electronics and ice fishing comfort, there has been a serious increase in intelligent pressure around here devoted to cathing panfish. I love the ice fishing revolution, but I truly applaud the DNR for proposing several test lakes/bag limits over the next few years(perhaps someone with more knowledge on that can tell me if it's going to happen or not). There is no mistaking that when I trek back into difficult to reach or private ponds/resevoirs, I have my best shot at multiple giant bluegills on a consistant basis. There is also no mistaking that there is still great panfishing all over the state and that it isn't broken. Just saying that as someone with a family that loves a frequent meal of panfish, I will delight in only being allowed to keep 10-15 fish, vs being one of the very few on the lake that 'chooses' to now.
To stick with the topic, as a multi county/state/country fisherman without a true dog in the fight, I'd be considered in favor of the trolling proposal. Having fished open to trolling Rusk/Price/Sawyer counties in addition to other states and Canada for years which contain several small, pelagic species containing, gin bottles, I can't say that the fishing is worse on their lakes than in places where it is not allowed. Like jlong, I would like to drag some crawler harnesses with the kids on a few of my local lakes where it is not currently allowed. I've always advocated that there could/should be more lakes or chains that no motorized traffic should be allowed, to allow for the tranquil experience. Again I'm not a demanding advocate either way. Great discussion guys, and thanks for keeping it civil.
Edited by Reef Hawg 2/19/2015 8:40 PM
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | i caught bluegills on Pelican Lake Orr, MN. in the 80's and early 90's and then on a farm pond over by Detroit Lakes, MN. in the early 2000's ... it wrecked me for life and for some strange reason the MN bluegills just dwarf anything I've encountered in WI ever and I fish em pretty hard at times. |
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Posts: 32798
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Vermilion has some giant gills too, sled. There's great fishing for big gills all over this area, but they are not at all easy to find and catch. Great challenge.
I really try hard to find and catch bluegills I can 'lip'. |
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Location: north central wisconsin | jonnysled - 2/19/2015 8:38 PM
i caught bluegills on Pelican Lake Orr, MN. in the 80's and early 90's and then on a farm pond over by Detroit Lakes, MN. in the early 2000's ... it wrecked me for life and for some strange reason the MN bluegills just dwarf anything I've encountered in WI ever and I fish em pretty hard at times.
Agreed, having also fished MN alot for multi species up in the north, we were amazed at the magnum gills we'd get. Interesting that nobody was seemingly targeting them. Seemed there were plenty of walleyes and perch to keep most of the locals busy, while my dad cranked the gills out of the cabbage all day. Also, like alot of the U.P. lakes, I believe that winter snow conditions are typically such that don't allow for the winter harvest fest of other areas. We have some big gill opportunites, but on many waters alot of the weedline dwellers get picked over. Best way to guage a lake is to get out there and do some catch and release fishing when they are on their beds just to see what is in there, then you'll know.
Edited by Reef Hawg 2/19/2015 8:51 PM
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | ones i'm talking about you can hardly get your hand around em and i got fingers as long as john holmes ... :0)
never seen any here like em ... it's one thing to be long, but tall too with width. phriggin huge ...
may have to check out Vermillion, but Orr is just down the road ... great place to fish if anyone hasn't been there and needs a trip for kids. good smallies too ... |
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Location: north central wisconsin | Yes, there are 10" gills in the typical clear lakes, but alot of them are 'all tail' as my buddy puts it. There are places where big round ones roam, but are not typically with the little guys on the same waters, either spot or depth, and I would like to say I've been on em this year but I really haven't. That's probably why I'm more inclined to tell you where I caught a Musky than a bucket of big Gills. Truly big gills are what keeps me awake at night though, and consume me this time of the year. Good luck man!
Edited by Reef Hawg 2/19/2015 9:09 PM
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | yup, i've caught 10 inchers here ... not the same as those i'm talking about.
willing to put on a blindfold and travel ... will buy libations LOL |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The bonus on the big gills in Vermilion are 12" to 15" crappies mixed in. Beat up on 'em last year after refining the presentation.
Got some beauties in North Dakota a couple weeks ago. Total hand covers a couple inches thick. I will be back there.... |
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Location: one foot over the line | Sled, if that is true, I have an idea for you.... and i am real thirsty. Could also include many many green-backs, a bunch of brown-backs and a shot at a giant flathead or two, etc, etc.
Edited by beerforthemuskygods 2/19/2015 9:24 PM
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Location: oswego, il | When talking about the vermillion panfish, we are talking about the west end. East side has perch but have not found any nice ones. The big gills, pumkinseeds, crappies and perch were on the west side. We did well using the smallest beetle spin made, use a gulp alive maggot or 1" grub for the body and two spilt shots about a foot in front for depth and.casting distance. Slow move it back. Light tackle lots of fun, panfish love it. So does the occasional pike. My youngest son got a mid thirty on that tiny little spinnerbait. |
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Location: north central wisconsin | Were the gills in or near weeds on V? Were the crappies found with them in the sun in weeds, or were they showing up better in lower light? Vertical presentation/floats for either or both? Pitching tubes or spin'n jigs too? Good stuff. |
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Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI | sworrall - 2/19/2015 8:16 PM
Let's look at reality. Most of the lakes I fish for walleyes have a two fish limit, a few are one over 14" and one under. A few are two over 15". A few are 2 over 18" (not going to happen).
Trolling to catch my 2 fish or casting...it's two fish. Either way, if we want to catch two and keep them, we will and can jigging or 'position fishing'.
There is no 'place' where folks violate more than others other than the fact the water with fish in it is here. Most of the time overharvest arrests are out of town folks.
I disagree Steve, and that is why I am expressing my concern. Take Anvil Lake over by me for example. It has had a slot on it for quite a while for walleyes. Used to be a great lake to catch walleyes within the slot. That was until I watched property owners during the opener catch, and keep, every fish they caught. I found it odd as We had a tough time catching a "keeper" as most were within the slot. They would eventually head to shore with their limit, and a few hours later were right back out on the lake. Some of them I never saw release a fish. So not only did they keep every fish they kept, and I am sure a lot that were in the slot that had to go back, but they also kept more than there allotted 2/3 (I don't remember anymore if it was 2 or three fish) fish.
Again I hope I am wrong. Trolling will become legal. Hopefully we don't have to sit on here and debate on how best to protect the resource 10 years from now. It is much easier to be proactive than reactive. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | Kentuck walleyes were gone in a year ... and it was anglers who did it, not the folks the anglers continually blame. |
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Location: oswego, il | Travis, did you report them? Fisherman follow hot bites of all kinds. Poachers do as well. |
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Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI | jonnysled - 2/20/2015 6:36 AM
Kentuck walleyes were gone in a year ... and it was anglers who did it, not the folks the anglers continually blame.
Yep |
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | ToddM - 2/20/2015 6:42 AM
Travis, did you report them? Fisherman follow hot bites of all kinds. Poachers do as well.
No. At that time I had no cell phone. I haven't been back since getting one as the last few times I was there the walleye fishing was terrible.
I saw the same non-sense on Kentuck Lake as well as a few others.
Edited by CiscoKid 2/20/2015 8:07 AM
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Posts: 32798
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Travis,
Anyone over limiting won't necessarily be better at it trolling and is breaking the law.
Keith creeled all winter long on popular walleye lakes for a decade. He rarely saw over bagging, and there's way more pressure on the ice from the 'slovenly underclass' we seem to be concerned with. He ran a big sled, came up on folks unannounced, and creeled from pretty much sunup to sundown and just didn't see much of it. What he did see was a TON of ice anglers.
I suppose we should ban SI and DI sonars. That actually, as crazy as it sounds, was discussed some years ago. Spot lock on trolling motors, bad for fishing because it allows incredible boat control and folks will catch more fish. And so on. Ban guns, and people won't be killed. Guns don't kill people, people do. No smokepole season for Whitetails, we just don't do that up here, and all the deer will be killed. Wait, maybe we should not have reintroduced wolves and not allowed the wholesale slaughter of the herd in T zones and special hunts. Crossbows are not 'fair'.
It's all 'social' argument.
This will not be an issue with walleyes, especially if the initiative underway is completed and WI stocks walleyes where needed again. The walleye fishing sucks u here on quite a few lakes, and it's not because of trolling. It's poor NR and almost zero stocking. Same with Muskies.....Pelican stinks when compared to the 80's and early 90's when stocking was nuts and harvest was too...because no stocking occurred for over a decade and NR isn't great.
I fish all over N MN, lots of little lakes where trolling has always been allowed, and the fishing was and still is really good. The folks up North in MN over-limit too. At least there the state didn't have to ask the public's permission to place a reasonable limit on crappies.
It won't be a significant biological issue with Muskies either. It's just going to change what we are used to up here and annoy folks who don't want another boat within 100 feet, even idling by. I know I'll need to adjust my attitude.
The fish don't care. And the sky isn't falling.
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Location: MN | I've fished a lot in MN and WI and I would say there is a much lower rate of selective harvest from WI folks. There are plenty of meat hogs in MN too I just see more of it in WI.
The good news is it seems the practice of selective harvest is gaining momentum, especially from the younger generation. Most people seem to understand the concept for walleyes but it isn't as common with panfish and pike but hopefully that will change in time. I think all the talk about CPR on forums and fishing shows (IDO, Uncut Angling, etc) is helping spread the word. |
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Location: Already Gone | Impose an Optional $100 per season Trolling Sticker for the boat.
Big, Blaze Orange....
All proceeds go directly to Stocking Programs for the county purchased in.
Everyone has an option, pay to play.
Edited by Mark Hoerich 2/20/2015 11:08 AM
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Location: Already Gone | And that Steve...is a great post. You hit it on the head.
Edited by Mark Hoerich 2/20/2015 11:12 AM
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Posts: 999
| I agree with Travis on the walleye deal, there will be a lot of harvest of the big females now that they will be accessible year around vs the post spawn period. Muskies get pressure out in the basins now and they are released but when folks start figuring out how EASY is it to pick of these giant footballs on Tomahawk, Big Arb, Trout all summer long you bet they'll be keeping them for stringer mounts, cabin mounts, many will eat them. I can see the guides really promoting this pattern as well and it will bring more tourism up north because there are so many walleye anglers down here in the valley that just lick their chops at the thought of trolling up north for them. With little NR and limited stocking the lakes will take a beating.
Edited by Mr Musky 2/20/2015 11:34 AM
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Location: oswego, il | I agree with Steve. Pay to play, should we get casting permit too? Those walleyes are year round accessible within the season of coarse. They can be found with today's sonar no problem. Given the option of a crankbait, crawler harness or gulp alive, I pick gulp alive. The bite is and has always been there to try.
As far as guides go, they now have another tool for clients to catch fish. Is the argument that there are plenty of unethical guides up north?
Edited by ToddM 2/20/2015 2:28 PM
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