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Posts: 32802
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | 'We will push for management that meets our idea of what that population of fish SHOULD be managed for, and if trophy management is the goal, 100% CPR to the maximum potential should be encouraged. All variables need to be considered, and I find the folks in fisheries management better at that than we are. Once population and overall size distribution is accomplished managing for trophies becomes a social....not biological...issue.
When that happens, sometimes folks feel compelled to attempt to legislate their desires into practice (Bay of Green Bay) because fisheries folks don't necessarily see the need. If 'we' win in that sort of scenario, we are happy, but others who have differing management/harvest goals that are just as biologically sound as 'ours' may not be. .
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'And that's precisely why "your" fishing isn't as good as "ours". There is no other way that makes biological sense to manage muskies except for trophies. Sorry, but making it into a social issue seems like a defeatest and wishy washy way to manage muskies.'
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Much of the quoted portion of my post referred to as 'wishy washy' is exactly what just happened in MN, resulting in a new 48" limit. And it's why MN was successful in making it happen. The folks who got it done understand that. I'm hoping it's what'll happen on the Bay Of Green Bay, too.
48" ain't 50" or 54", guest. Folks are not heading to MN as a trophy destination to catch a 48. If anglers decide to come over there in force and a number of them harvest legal muskies, MN has a problem retaining the numbers of fish in the 52 to 55 range.
In fact, MN still has a potential problem with big fish harvest, and the same folks who fought to get the 48" limit know there's more to be done.
So I hope MORE guides go 100% CPR there, and on our trophy potential waters everywhere.
Hard not to quote Ron White here.
BT, I sure hope your are not thinking I said anyone with your attitude is elitist. Far from it.
I sure am glad I was forced through the SRA program. 
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| jasonvkop - 4/3/2010 6:34 PM
"But it is not a matter or question of ethics at ALL."
I could see it being an ethical question for some people as it is killing a living creature.
Maybe, but I am guessing most of these guys all eat fish or animals of some sort...It is all about feeling self-righteous, it is the new breed of muskie fishermen...BR |
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Posts: 2024
| guest - 4/3/2010 4:35 PM
Lens Creep - 4/3/2010 11:45 AM
Recent research with the "Project Noble Beast" deal is also showing delayed mortality to be far less than what was once thought, although the study is still ongoing.
I'm only vaguely familiar with Project Noble Beast but keep in mind that the fisherman participating in this study (mostly Mr. Landsman? ) are probably very careful and conscientious of the muskie's well-being when practicing or simulating CPR for the study. I don't think I would go as far as to assume the majority of muskie anglers are that careful even if there intentions are good. For example, in the study are they holding these 52" fish vertically if even only for a second? Are they using nets with that thin crappy netting material...like the lower end Frabill nets some of the pros are using on tv? Are they taking them out of the net...taking pics...putting them back in the net to check pics...then taking them back out again for better pics or a video shot??? I really doubt it. Many of the pros even on tv will do that. However, most of that is edited out of course. I'm guessing their CPR tactics will not have the same effect on a muskie as others CPR tactics. The definition of CPR can have very wide parameters.
To clarify a few points brought up here:
We are mimicking what I have deemed to be "normal" handling procedures for *specialized* muskie anglers. We play the fish as quickly as possible (transmittered fish were angled for no longer than 2 min 12 sec), use Frabill Big Kahunas, lift them vertically from the net for a second until we can slide our hands into position for a horizontal hold (as an angler would when preparing to take a picture), air expose the fish for 90 seconds to simulate photo taking and out-of-water measurements, take our data, and release the fish.
The above process is compared to a gentler alternative that eliminates or severely reduces air exposure.
As "guest" has mentioned though there is an entire spectrum of handling practices, but for the sake of the study these were the procedures we deemed as normal and something we could easily standardize. Also, angling is done by myself as well as other Muskies Canada volunteers.
Hope that clarifies things. |
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Posts: 32802
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I kill lots of living things and clearly understand that in order for us to live as we do, folks who claim they don't are allowing/accepting by proxy, and are delusional. I even enjoy harvesting my own food. I do as best as I can to be ethical in the process, and will apologize to no one for enjoying my sport. I sorta hope to give the crappies hell next week, and there will be casualties.
I used to kill muskies and allow my clients to kill muskies. I don't anymore. Something changed, I guess.
This one is heading South.
Sorry, Jerry, good topic. |
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Posts: 73
| sworrall - 4/3/2010 7:13 PM
I sorta hope to give the crappies hell next week, and there will be casualties.
LOL....I hope to inflict some 'Crappie casualties' myself this weekend, Steve! |
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Self-rightous, that's an interesting term.
I'd really like to know where our muskie fisheries would be without all the self-rightous people that have let fish go for other muskie fishermen to catch.
JS |
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| They would be just fine..................... |
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Posts: 692
Location: Pelican Rapids, MN | This is getting ridiculous, sorry for ever bringing it up - All "guests" want to do is drop in their shrouded two cents for argument sake. It is too bad people are too embarrassed to come out of the closet.
As for "guest 16" in todays musky industry, conservation for prolonging the use of the resource is the main focus. In this case, the "honorable" thing to do is to release a caught trophy for future consideration. "Honorable" is a synonym of "Ethical". maybe you like that word better, but in my career - my life, the "ethical" thing to do is to release them all.
Maybe "Ethical" is too dramatic of a word for some, but I have based my life around this fish, so the term is fitting in this situation.
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| Jsondag - 4/3/2010 9:09 PM
This is getting ridiculous, sorry for ever bringing it up - All "guests" want to do is drop in their shrouded two cents for argument sake. It is too bad people are too embarrassed to come out of the closet.
As for "guest 16" in todays musky industry, conservation for prolonging the use of the resource is the main focus. In this case, the "honorable" thing to do is to release a caught trophy for future consideration. "Honorable" is a synonym of "Ethical". maybe you like that word better, but in my career - my life, the "ethical" thing to do is to release them all.
Maybe "Ethical" is too dramatic of a word for some, but I have based my life around this fish, so the term is fitting in this situation.
You can speak of honor or what not, but muskies are a renewable resource. Gone are the days of lore and really working to catch the fish. We have made it easy, the last place where a chance at a serious trophy exists and hard work is still needed is out east...They have not stocked the heck out of a bunch of lakes, that has made muskie an ordinary fish at this point. No longer the rare gem....it is turning into the fish of 10 casts, not 10,000.....BR |
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| Only topics where everyone agrees unyieldingly with the author's every opinion should be discussed?
That would be boring. And pretty unproductive. |
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Posts: 909
| pjvtrash - 4/1/2010 10:00 PM
I agree that it is his right to keep a legal fish if he catches it.
It is also your right as a business owner to deny him the opportunity to do so from your boat. If you feel strongly about the catch and release ethic, insist on it, openly and up-front - which I think you have done - and let the consumer choose whether he/she wants your services.
Let him get someone else to help him do it, or let him do it on his own. You can't stop him from doing it, but you don't have to help him, or make a profit on it either!
This pretty much covers it! I'm a guide too! And this is how its done from the first time I speak with a client!
Brian
$0.02 |
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Posts: 692
Location: Pelican Rapids, MN | Oh Come on...relax! - 4/3/2010 9:19 PM
Only topics where everyone agrees unyieldingly with the author's every opinion should be discussed?
That would be boring. And pretty unproductive.
I agree, that would be boring and would be divergent of the original question posted, which was not a try at promoting catch and release - It was about peoples honest beliefs or personal ethics when it came to these fish - and that is what I was looking for - Not dissection of verbatim.
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Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | 10 Casts is all I'll need to catch a trophy Muskie,........ #*^@,.... I may boat 90 muskies the next time I'm out !!........................ Cool !!
Jerry, thanks for being a stand up kind of guy...... now just............ GO FISH!
Jerome
Edited by Top H2O 4/3/2010 9:57 PM
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Posts: 32802
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Jerry,
I think you are getting answers to your question and many other questions paralleling are being asked/answered. The question begs divergence, and it's what happens when one asks what you admit was a 'loaded' question of a group this large and geographically/demographically diverse.
Great topic. Good discussion, for the most part, IMO. |
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Posts: 692
Location: Pelican Rapids, MN | Thanks, I enjoyed to diversity of opinion. Now freeze it will ya? My wife wants me to pay attention to her! HA HA |
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