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Posts: 1243
Location: Musky Tackle Online, MN | Guest, what I'm saying is that there are zero lakes that prove their theory. What I'm saying is that when they always try to use Miltona (even when there was nothing there as evidence), we have something like this to refute skewed data that they tried to use before. When the Gull Lake proposal was shot down a few years ago, one of the things that the antis used to try to prove their point was skewed data from Miltona. It would have been nice to have this at that time. Gull could have benefited, as can other lakes in the state.
Aaron |
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Posts: 162
Location: Bemidji, MN | Well, I live on Plantagenet, and I am a very poor walleye fisherman, I don't really care for it all that much to tell you the truth. But, if I get hungry and want to go out and catch a limit to fry and eat, I never have a problem. But oh wait, there are no muskies in Plantagenet!
In all seriousness, the walleye fishingon this lake has never been better! |
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| Thanks for clarifying Aaron. I was trying to see if the mdnr could do a fish count of those lakes to shoot down the anti's. I guess my response came out a little harsh. Sounds like we are on the same page.
We all know that fish eat fish. Muskies eat walleyes walleyes eat muskie fry and so on. |
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| happy hooker - 2/12/2010 2:36 PM
honestly I think we should try and get the designation "WALLEYE' removed from bait makers practices,,,instead using Brown Pike,Brown Perch,etc
We go out in 3ft November waves heave huge baits talk about how much dedication/ time on the water it takes to get that trophy and the confidence bait we turn to in order to get the job done in alot of this is a 'walleye" color,,,,,that dosent exactly support our arguments and sends a bad signal to the general fishing person
A couple of general public fisherman walk into a tackle shop and see 14 inch jakes hanging on the wall and are amazed at the huge baits the muskie guys use,,look at the tag,,$30 and walleye color,,,"WOW $30 for this big walleye bait,,and those muskie guys are always saying they dont eat walleyes"
predator instinct they just hit it cause it looks wounded,looks like a sucker,it just runs at the right depth, If we name em walleye this is ammo that can be turned against us.
How'bout Brown baitfish color? |
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| I know a few here have actually talked to people who are opposed to muskies being stocked, but I think most musky anglers only believe the concern is with muskies eating walleyes. I have talked to a few people to actually UNDERSTAND their concerns about musky stocking and not make assumptions. Yes walleyes are a concern, but panfish is a BIG concern from anglers/lake lot owners too. I know of a few people on a specific body of water in central MN that is suppose to be stocked with muskies. The lake lot owners on that lake that I have talked too did not say one word about walleyes, they are concerned about panfish. No data to back up their concerns, and although I personally could care less about panfish, their concerns should also be taken into consideration and we should understand that there is more to the arguement than just "muskies eating walleyes", if we want to get public support. The article is a good start, but it has not address the concerns of all anglers. |
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| There is no strong argument about muskies eating enough panfish to make a difference. Panfish reproduce at a rate at which it will never be a concern. Josh, I agree that we should keep this in mind for those people who actually believe this.
Edited by Baby Mallard 2/15/2010 12:55 PM
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Posts: 829
Location: Maple Grove, MN | Muskies do eat some panfish, but that is usually a good thing as most lakes have way to many panfish. Decreasing the panfish population often leads to inceases in the overall size of the panfish population - which is usually what panfish fisherman want. Not?
And don't forget the Bass fishermen too.
I have talked to a number of Bass fishermen that are convinced that Muskies are eating their Bass. They tell me of times when Muskies hit Bass while being reeled in. I always ask them just how many times that has actually happened to them. Most say "never" and a few "say" they have had it happen once or twice. But they "hear" about so many other Bass being hit that they assume it is an every day thing.
I have "heard" about it happening too, but have never seen it and have caught hundreds of Bass in areas loaded with Muskies. I have even caught Bass immediately before catching Muskies out of the same small weed bed. So, its not like Muskies are always interested in a struggling Bass either. Sometimes perhaps, but certainly not always and not always even when they are hungry. My experience indicates that it may happen occasionally, but it is a rare event and not the rule.
Whether it is panfish, Walleyes, or Bass, it seems that some will believe whatever they "hear" that supports their bias - even if their own experience indicates otherwise.
I expect it will take a lot more than just studies to change some people's minds. Some will look for anything to support their bias even if it is only hear-say and has no factual basis. Some even think that Muskies are targetting people. Have you seen Monster Quest on History channel lately? 
Edited by Herb_b 2/15/2010 1:22 PM
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Posts: 3136
| muskies havent improved the panfish size of the Minneapolis city lakes it was hoped that the ravenous appetite of Tigers would thin the panfish out but their still 6-8 to the pound sunnys,,,theyve definitly put a dent in the Bullheads |
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| I caught a 5+ pound bass and the very next cast caught a 50.5". Before I started muskie fishing, I fished the Miss. River a lot for walleyes, bass, and crappies. I would say I would have a muskie hit a random fish I was reeling in 1-2 times a year. I only landed one of them, and that fish smoked a rock bass I was reeling in. Big fat muskie too, one of the girthier fish I've ever seen. They are just reacting upon a struggling fish. If they weren't, they wouldn't hit lures.:-) |
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Posts: 426
Location: Perryville, MO | If the idea that muskie destroy other fisheries is bad up North, you can only imagine the uphill battle that we face further south. I haven't paid that close of attention to recent IDNR sampling figures, but I often ask the many bass guys I know and fish with about their catch-rate, health, and size of fish. The last couple of years guys have been gushing about the bass fishery. I never tell them why I'm asking (I'm sure they - like I am - are just happy to gloat a bit). No doubt it might just be a few really exceptional recruitment years, but if things maintain this sort of upward trend...proof will be a certainty. The bass fishery is headed upward while the musky fishery improves. Now just hard science and everybody will be happy, right? Not a chance. For many people in the South...it's the teeth, man...it's the teeth. Big lures and fish with teeth scare people. It's one thing to see a monster alligator gar caught out of the river or irrigation cannel, it's a whole different experience to know that there are teethy fish swimming in "my" recreation water. But one group has more lobbying power than another, and as long as the bass guys catch the proof (that is: they figure-out that while the bass isn't the top predator anymore and has to find new places to happily exist) and they discover that their proof is bigger and healthier than it had been, than I'm guessing I'll keep seeing stocking of muskies. I don't think we can really hope to educate the folks swimming and skiing. Heck, I'd just be happy to see a few of them learn one or two things about ettique and fair consideration of others sharing the same resource. I think the bass guys are the real hope for the muskie fishery for us anyway. Let's hope studies of this kind continue to be favorable.
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Posts: 1243
Location: Musky Tackle Online, MN | For those concerned about how other species are effected due to the introduction of muskies, here's a great document to refer them to.
http://www.brainerdmuskies.com/Knapp%20Muskie%20paper08.pdf
Aaron |
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Posts: 929
Location: Rhinelander. | This is just another one of the arguements that wil never come to an end. No matter how much evidence you think you have they will continue to argue with you. The saying you can lead a horse to water but cannot make it drink is true. It applies here. With that said I feel its a waste of time to even argue the point with walleye supporters.
Pfeiff |
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Posts: 59
| Just like Dave said- I have heard of numerous people spearing muskies out there again this year. There needs to be a spearing ban out there also. |
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Posts: 1425
Location: St. Lawrence River | esoxaddict - 2/11/2010 1:15 PM
"We used to be able to go out on Friday and catch 50 walleyes for our Friday night fish fry. Now we're lucky if we catch 10! Those darn muskies are eating all our walleyes!!!"
uhhh... WHO ate all the walleyes???!
Haha thats funny right there.! |
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Posts: 305
| Blaming the muskies provides a convenient excuse for many when they don't meet expectations for their catch of other species. These folks will not be swayed. There may be some reasonable folks that might be swayed over time with a mounting body of persistently advocated evidence showing benefit to their chosen pursuits. |
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Posts: 90
| The fact is that in many lakes around the region, Muskies, Walleyes, Panfish, Bass, you name it coexisted and established a natural balance long before any of us were ever around. It is the fisherman that is the true predator that can and in many cases does upset that balance, be it from over harvest or in some cases under harvest, both can be equally detrimental. Obviously these plain, simple, indisputable facts are not going to change anyones opinion, but there is a lot of necessity involved with natural selection and the circle of life, and we are the outside factors, not the Muskies. |
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