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Posts: 492
Location: NW WI | There's no shortage of flattery in the fishing world.
Lots of different walks of life on here so I'd like to ask yall. Does anybody on here know any patent attorneys? Have any information, stories, links, etc pertaining to lures and patents? I've been doing some reading on the patent's office website. But id like to consume more knowledge if anybody has any to share.
Thank you.
Edited by 7.62xJay 4/28/2024 11:24 AM
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Posts: 596
Location: Duluth | I know a guy in our chapter had a legal battle regarding a pull pause bait. Things can get nasty. |
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Posts: 1203
| I think if one guide makes a lure and a guide who he may not like makes a similar lure then there's going to be legal action but if someone makes a similar lure and they get along maybe not. |
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Posts: 2240
Location: SE, WI. | Interesting Discussion :)….Stay Tuned…;)
Edited by jdsplasher 4/28/2024 4:32 PM
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Posts: 32802
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Lures are not easy to patent. Once patented, I believe it's a very small percentage of difference for a similar bait. |
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Posts: 715
| I have been down the patent road a few times, I have a friend who is a big time patent attorney (like $1000 plus an hour kinda guy) so my knowledge came from him. The problem is even if you get a patent enforcing it is essentially on you. You hire attorneys, you take someone to court, you have to prove that they infringed on your patent. The patent office commonly issues patents that won't hold up in court under scrutiny...which is why people have to go to court to get rulings (and how patent attorneys support themselves). For example ANY example of an item whether homemade or available on the open market prior to the patents application date invalidates the patent holders rights...but you may not find that out till your in court and the other party produces a picture of an item similar to your patent made before your patent application was filed. One other thing (and there are lots of other things BTW) is cost to do research and properly draft a patent that has a chance of holding up in court is expensive. There are literally millions of issued patents so the chances of a truly unique idea are small. Researching and drafting the patent properly are the big $$$$ ticket items not the actual fees to file for one. One example in the musky fishing world: a guy in came up with an integrated jig ripper style rod handle...filed for patents. A good patent attorney could blow that patent up in seconds (if he got one) as there are many variations home built or otherwise that were out there well prior to the application filing. So even if he gets a patent it won't hold up. I was using similar homemade models 6-7 years prior on MH TV so it's now "public knowledge".
Another example: Power pole was approached by Minnkota early on to buy the company and all the rights to to it's patent's. Power Pole did not want to sell and Minnkota had done enough research (paying patent attorneys) to believe that the P Pole patents would hold up in court and P Pole was big enough to go after them if it came to that. So out came the Talon to get a piece of the market and then ten years later (the shelf life of patents) they released the Raptor using the same tech as P Pole because "they could" as the patents were no longer enforceable.
So the little guy can still get a patent but the bigger picture is "will it hold up" and can I afford to pay enough up front to get a patent that will hold up if I get it...and can I afford the Attorney fees to go after someone if I think they are in violation...and then what do I end up with if I win. So the money issue is very real and impacts everything every step of the way. In general small ticket items are not worth patenting for that reason.
Anyways that's the dime store version of what is a huge and very complicated business that big companies spend piles of money on to try and get and then defend or try to beat other patents in court. It is a very complicated business with many layers that affect the outcome of getting, using and defending patents. In short if you have a idea with enough potential to be very valuable you need a really good patent guy to put it all together in a format that will actually hold up in court if it comes to that...you also need to do a ton of research to make sure YOU are not stepping on someone else's patent before getting into any kind of business situation with your idea so you don't become someone else's target for litigation.
Edited by bturg 4/29/2024 4:25 PM
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| I wonder if one route might be to develop a unique name and copyright it. I think those are easier to get and can be more easily defended. Not a substitute for a patent, just a simpler step to try and get some protection for your product. |
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Posts: 715
| In the case of lures just build it and sell as many as you can...if it catch's fire people are going to knock it off anyways.
Example : The Headlock, there are a bunch of copies (aluminum lips with the same or similar line tie) but the originals still sell very well. Keep your quality high and people will seek out your product. Names are a dime a dozen and unless someone copies and tries to sell using your lures name a copyright won't do much for you...been on that road too. Copyrights are quite a bit cheaper but all they protect is the name itself...and not really well. |
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Posts: 307
| bturg,spot on! |
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Posts: 32802
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Successfully marketing a lure comes down to brand recognition assuming the bait is a fish catcher. Name the lure and that becomes the brand regardless of company name, or use the company name. What is a Suick? The name of the most popular Suick is Thriller. For decades a Rapala, if brought up in conversation, was the minnow bait, eventually copied by hundreds of other brands. New lures under an established brand are usually the '____' by the brand. I worked for an emerging ice jig company (that is now a contender) marketing teardrop-style tungsten jigs, of which there are countless brands but only a couple of manufacturers. Once the brand took off, 'new' styles and models were named, and tagged by '-------------'.
The reverse, marketing the lure name, us usually done for companies trying to establish one bait.
A small builder is way ahead of the game to spend the money on marketing.
What bturg said is correct.
I'm working with a crappie bait builder right now who has a successful TV show. He created another brand and names the products under that, including things like nets. So it's the Crappie Monster Upper Cut by OTH (On The Hook) Fishing. |
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Posts: 492
Location: NW WI | Thanks all, especially Bturg. Pretty much reinforced my suspicions and concerns around the subject. Silver lining, a heck of alot less headache,gambling, and wasted time. |
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| Actually, I am an attorney. While I don't practice in the area of patents, copyright or trademark, I'll suggest that any lure-maker or other person with similar questions should read and carefully consider the excellent comments of bturg, and, if so moved, seek out professional advice from a qualified attorney who has a practice devoted to patent law. |
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