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Location: Contrarian Island | wow, that's deep man. |
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Posts: 1209
| Yes I am saying that jerk baits cause a pre-programmed desire for an easy meal and as long as they can see it they will travel about 3 times as far for a jerkbait over a straight retrieved lure. If there negative and will only eat what's wishing 1' then with a jerk bait its 3'.
Edited by Fishysam 6/2/2017 10:30 AM
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Posts: 1971
| Fishysam - 6/2/2017 10:29 AM
Yes I am saying that jerk baits cause a pre-programmed desire for an easy meal and as long as they can see it they will travel about 3 times as far for a jerkbait over a straight retrieved lure. If there negative and will only eat what's wishing 1' then with a jerk bait its 3'.
Cant say I agree with that... Lets say a muskie is suspended 18' down over 50' of water... why would it move 3 times further to eat a jerkbait vs a slow rolled bucktail both worked 5' from the surface.. its going to overtake either presentation in about .7 seconds if it wants to .. |
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Posts: 1209
| Drives them crazy! Now I totally agree if visibility is low a jerk bait is harder for a fish to feel where it is located and actually hurt you odds. But the erratic action and the pause of no movement makes fish snap |
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Posts: 20180
Location: oswego, il | I agree an erratic bait with a pause can get a great reaction from a musky. There is nothing to support how far a fish will travel to eat a bait. In my example, the splash of the lure hitting the water caused the fish to react and swim to the bait. |
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Posts: 1209
| In the bass world with much higher catch rates it is more easy to connect the dots day to day. I do believe in the bass world scientific study's have been done on how far fish travel for what types of baits. In an almost cast to to cast comparison. Agreed if a splash got its attentio there isn't much going to stop it from eating it other than size, being to big to eat |
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI | Fishysam - 6/2/2017 11:50 AM Drives them crazy! Now I totally agree if visibility is low a jerk bait is harder for a fish to feel where it is located and actually hurt you odds. But the erratic action and the pause of no movement makes fish snap You are mixing senses of their lateral line and vision, they're going to "feel" everything in their environment regardless of clarity. Take away the vision from a muskie and it will have no problem eating. Take away the lateral line and it's going to have a difficult time eating, especially if the water is stained/dirty. The highly developed lateral line in muskies is why bass behavior can't really be related to muskie behavior. Bass area sight and scent feeder, muskies are a feel and sight feeder. Try fishing a jerkbait at night or in really dirty water, they'll still eat it.
Edited by Will Schultz 6/2/2017 11:41 AM
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Posts: 1209
| As a fish searches for the last position it felt your lure, you jerk again and it feels it on a different than expected spot. Kinda like Marco Polo in the pool... Where as a buck tail or other lure that has constant vibration the fish doesn't loose it's sense of where it is. If some one spoke as you are playing Marco Polo you would be able to connect with them easily. |
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Posts: 1209
| Bass that live in dirty water are definitely not sight feeders. They will most definitely survive in 1" clarity |
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Location: oswego, il | Before someone beats you to it, come out with the first fishing lure that emits the word "marco"! I could dig up a bad sweater for the infomercial.
What Will was trying to say is there are differences between the species in the way they sense things. Fish are adaptable to their environment. Water clarity included. Now a fish species tbat moves up the water column a great deal to eat are salmon and trout. Color is a big factor in getting them to eat. They will move 100ft to eat.
Edited by ToddM 6/2/2017 1:56 PM
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Location: Green Bay, WI | Q: How far will a musky (or any fish for that matter) travel to get a bait?
A: As far as it needs to.
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Posts: 735
Location: Apparently where the Muskie aren't | This is all making a lot more sense. Here's two more good questions.
1. How far down Can a muskie be and shoot straight up to grab a topwater or bucktail? We now know that a muskie (if Hungry enough) will travel as far as it needs to to grab a bait. But.... How far can it physically go, before it runs into a physical limitation roadblock. I'm not talking about how far a muskie will swim horizontally because they could go forever like that since they are very efficient swimmers. But how far up (from the depths) will it come? Physical limitations meaning... Air bladder issues, speed (being to deep to get there in time) (yes I know they are fast) etc.
2. How effective, or what is the range of a musky's or (other fish) lateral line? Lets just focus on the lateral line. Pretend the muskie lives in 1" visibility or is blind. And obviously it depends on the lure so let's pretend its a bucktail (good vibration and a popular bait). And this is obviously something important because if it doesn't know it's there it can't eat it. |
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI | Fishysam - 6/2/2017 2:42 PM As a fish searches for the last position it felt your lure, you jerk again and it feels it on a different than expected spot. Kinda like Marco Polo in the pool... Where as a buck tail or other lure that has constant vibration the fish doesn't loose it's sense of where it is. If some one spoke as you are playing Marco Polo you would be able to connect with them easily. Food for thought... Does any lure stop moving to the point where it isn't able to be felt by the fish? Even a bait that is perfectly neutral buoyant doesn't really stop moving. |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | The Esox species are physostomatous, in that they have a duct which can "vent" their swim bladder. So physiologically speaking, they should be able to ascend in the water column just as fast as they can expel gas. I have never read anything in the literature about the maximum rate of gas expulsion, and I seriously doubt you could ever quantify such an action. Suffice it to say that physostomatous fish are certainly able to more quickly ascend, compared to physiclistous fish like bass and perch. Those fish need to regulate air in their swim bladder through a complex network of blood vessels.
As to the effectiveness of the lateral line, I've never seen anything that quantifies this ability. I do have a book on the physiology of fish, and I'll check that to see if it gives any such information.
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Posts: 8719
| If your lake stratifies they are likely to be above the thermocline from what I understand. As far as how far they can come up? From what I've seen, I'd say about 3 feet past where the water ends. Only limiting factor there is gravity unless they hit the boat.
As far as the lateral line, I'd say the fact that you can still catch them at night and in muddy/stained water proves it's effective enough. I don't know of any specific studies, but if I had to guess I'd say any fish within a 50 foot radius knows your lure is there.
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Location: oswego, il | I was going to say what Tom said. I do believe certain species can adjust their swim bladder better than others. |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | esoxaddict - 6/2/2017 4:20 PM
If your lake stratifies they are likely to be above the thermocline from what I understand. As far as how far they can come up? From what I've seen, I'd say about 3 feet past where the water ends. Only limiting factor there is gravity unless they hit the boat.
As far as the lateral line, I'd say the fact that you can still catch them at night and in muddy/stained water proves it's effective enough. I don't know of any specific studies, but if I had to guess I'd say any fish within a 50 foot radius knows your lure is there.
Yeah...much below the thermocline and the DO level often drops to virtually nil, because bacteria can use it up and there really isn't much to replenish it. So I don't you'll find many fish below that level, for the most part. At least not the species we're after, which tend to prefer DO levels around about 9 parts per million (PPM).
The best presentation I've ever seen on the effects of temperature-based stratification and dissolved oxygen levels, was from Tom Gelb. I think it might have gotten uploaded online somewhere...I don't remember. He came to Green Bay once to talk on row trolling, back in about 2007 or so, and also included temperature-based stratification and DO levels in his talk. It was outstanding. If it's out there and available somewhere, it would be WELL worth the time to watch the talk.
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Posts: 1209
| Will Schultz - 6/2/2017 3:45 PM
Fishysam - 6/2/2017 2:42 PM As a fish searches for the last position it felt your lure, you jerk again and it feels it on a different than expected spot. Kinda like Marco Polo in the pool... Where as a buck tail or other lure that has constant vibration the fish doesn't loose it's sense of where it is. If some one spoke as you are playing Marco Polo you would be able to connect with them easily. Food for thought... Does any lure stop moving to the point where it isn't able to be felt by the fish? Even a bait that is perfectly neutral buoyant doesn't really stop moving.
At low visibility the distance where a neutral buoyant bait is felt vs worth hunting must be lowered dramatically |
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