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Posts: 51
| Hi Everyone
Wanted to see if any of you had some advice. This year I have been able to get out on a couple of the TC metro lakes about once or twice a week. This year has been great so far with seeing fish. I have been lucky enough to raise 1-2 almost every trip. The only thing with these fish though is they are just lazy follows. They will follow the bait to the boat reel slow and maybe follow around the figure 8, but after that they will just swim off slow. I have been using tiny bucktails up to #10’s and everything from cranks to rubber. I was even surprised last night as my buddy and I were out fishing and there were about 6 other boats fishing for musky within a casts length and we still managed to raise 2 fish. Just wanted to get your take on if any of you are seeing the same thing, or what you do to usually get these pressured fish to go.
Thank you. |
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Posts: 114
| Try burning those small bucktails. You need to trigger the fish. |
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Posts: 833
| It could be a lot of things, hard to know without seeing it with my own eyes. So the below is based on what you've shared.
You could be off window, try coming back during a better solunar event, weather change, or low light.
Not trying to be insulting, but one potential cause is a poor figure 8. Metro fish are notoriously unforgiving to bad boatside technique.
Speed, likely too slow. There are things you can do the engage a fish during the cast, especially the last 20'.
Presentation choice could be off, whether it be bait choice, retrieve, depth, cadence, etc. Depends what they want that day. Have to read the fish (and guess) a bit on this one. Experience is king here.
This is my opinion and not meant to be rude, but if they are turning on the 8 and then bailing it is probably the figure 8 that is off. My experience with lazy fish is that they are curious and will follow the bait and then either veer off before the boat (this is a hint that lure choice is off) or lazily descend into the depths. They do not typically change speed or engage with any aggression. If you have a fish that is hot on the bait and is increasing speed into the boatside technique, then in my opinion such a fish is catchable, especially on a strong figure 8 lure like blades. It isn't a 100%, but that to me is not a lazy fish.
Just my $0.02. There are plenty folks on here with vastly more experience than me and they might be willing to offer better wisdom. Don't get down on yourself, you've found them consistently, which is no small achievement. Now you just need to figure out what is missing from the trigger to get the bite.
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Posts: 51
| I definitely agree with you on the boatside technique. I have only been fishing for musky about 2 years now so I would say my figure 8 game is not up to snuff. I have tried the last 20 feet of the cast changing the direction of the bucktail and depth vertically within the figure 8. I suppose it just takes some practice and sooner or later one of these fish will get the chomp on. Thank you for the info. |
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Posts: 833
| Here is what works for me on bucktails. The basic concepts apply to just about all lures in the 8.
Last 20 feet of cast, speed up.
Last 10 feet, put your rod tip in the water so the bait is coming in at a downward angle, maintain or increase speed
Start first turn last 3'-5' of cast, maintain speed (this takes practice.)
There will be a point as you initiate the first turn where you have to stop reeling, the bait should be no more than 12" from your rod tip. (This is a common mistake, too much line means weak figure 8.) This transition means the momentum becomes all about how fast you move the rod in the eight vs. the reel generating the speed. This needs to be a clean transition that carries your momentum. If the bait slows down at all in the metro, your chances of triggering go WAY down unless the fish is just suicidal. (This takes a lot of practice and a commitment to doing it right every time.)
That takes you to top of the first turn. Keep the speed going into the next turn.
Three kisses of death:
Turns are too shallow: Big fish don't turn on a dime. Advantage 9' rod.
ANY amount of slowing down, even minuscule one. Prey doesn't slow down when the musky comes calling
Rod touching your boat as you make the turn.
I am always thinking I want to "charge" up the fish and make it chase in my figure 8. Most of the time you'll get eaten on the first turn when the fish will cut the bait off or in the first straight away it will come unglued and do the "lunge" of it's name sake to hammer the lure. Enjoy the rush, there is no better way to get bit! Another fun one is when you begin the first turn 3'-5' from the boat and the fish is gangbusters and just engulfs the lure. AWESOME!
Up until post turnover this method should serve you well. Once it gets cold you have to match the fish a lot more, but don't worry about that until October.
Practice, Practice, Practice, that is why you hear guides say do it every time. It isn't just a cliche.
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Posts: 51
| Excellent advice. Can't wait to put these tactics to work. Might I ask what reel you prefer for your blades? I have both a winch and lexa400. winch is great for 10's but wish I could burn them faster. the Lexa400 is pretty good at bringing um in fast. Wish I had more money to really customize my setups. Have you heard of anyone using the Lexa HD hyper speed reels? |
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Posts: 833
| Tranx HG
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Location: Contrarian Island | agreed with Brads figure 8 tips...I'd also think you will benefit from a speed reel like a Tranx... sometimes speed is what will take a follower to a biter... |
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Posts: 572
| Brad P - 6/30/2016 10:17 AM
Here is what works for me on bucktails. The basic concepts apply to just about all lures in the 8.
Last 20 feet of cast, speed up.
Last 10 feet, put your rod tip in the water so the bait is coming in at a downward angle, maintain or increase speed
Start first turn last 3'-5' of cast, maintain speed (this takes practice.)
There will be a point as you initiate the first turn where you have to stop reeling, the bait should be no more than 12" from your rod tip. (This is a common mistake, too much line means weak figure 8.) This transition means the momentum becomes all about how fast you move the rod in the eight vs. the reel generating the speed. This needs to be a clean transition that carries your momentum. If the bait slows down at all in the metro, your chances of triggering go WAY down unless the fish is just suicidal. (This takes a lot of practice and a commitment to doing it right every time.)
That takes you to top of the first turn. Keep the speed going into the next turn.
Three kisses of death:
Turns are too shallow: Big fish don't turn on a dime. Advantage 9' rod.
ANY amount of slowing down, even minuscule one. Prey doesn't slow down when the musky comes calling
Rod touching your boat as you make the turn.
I am always thinking I want to "charge" up the fish and make it chase in my figure 8. Most of the time you'll get eaten on the first turn when the fish will cut the bait off or in the first straight away it will come unglued and do the "lunge" of it's name sake to hammer the lure. Enjoy the rush, there is no better way to get bit! Another fun one is when you begin the first turn 3'-5' from the boat and the fish is gangbusters and just engulfs the lure. AWESOME!
Up until post turnover this method should serve you well. Once it gets cold you have to match the fish a lot more, but don't worry about that until October.
Practice, Practice, Practice, that is why you hear guides say do it every time. It isn't just a cliche.
Nice summation by Brad P. An aggressive fish will eat with the described technique nearly all the time.
For fish that are a bit more reluctant, yet are still actively chasing, a variation would be to maintain or increase speed in the straightaways, but slow down (without stopping) the bait on the high outside corners--which is where you'll get bit. Similarly, with those types of fish, also try bringing the bait down very low in the water column in the straightaways and then rip the bait up hard toward the surface as you approach the high outside corners, again slowing the bait down as you turn. Again, be sure to keep the bait out as wide as possible on the outside corners and avoid blowing the bait out of the water as you rip the bait up to the surface...unfortunately, I know from experience that big fish lose interest when you do that...  |
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Posts: 51
| Thanks guys. definitely appreciate the advice. Can't wait to get out on the water again but with the 4th coming up she might be a zoo out there. setting the alarm clock for 4am and getting out early to hopefully hit it before all the pleasure boaters do. the tug is the drug. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | if they are really aggressive tho they won't care... stung a few only to put the bait back in the water to have them hit it again..but you are right, try not to blow them out 
..one thing I don't like doing and I think can screw up a big fish is this...if you have a very hot follow, you know the ones, they are tickling the back of the flashabou with their snout... do NOT change the depth of the lure by that much, on the say the first turn or 2... only change depth say on the 2nd turn... often times guys that maybe don't have a lot of fish under their belt get in their head they need to take the bait deep on the 1st turn, then high on the outside corner.. bigger fish, don't need to be tied into a pretzel, simply do a nice smooth transition into the L at the same depth and then turn it ...they should eat it there... have seen my fair share of guys do crazy figure 8s on fish that were hot enough they would have had the fish hit on the 1st turn instead they took them crazy deep and then shallow and the fish was tied into a pretzel....no bueno!
biggest key to catching following fish is simply 'reading the fish'....watch the fishes reactions to everything you do...that only comes from 100s and 100s of follows.... the old rule of thumb was never slow down on a figure 8...a few yrs ago on LOTW that was the ONLY way to get them to eat oddly enough... only comes from reading the fish... and screwing up a few times in the process
good luck!
Edited by BNelson 6/30/2016 1:12 PM
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Posts: 408
Location: MN | It's my first year fishing the metro area and I've had sort of the opposite result - hardly any follows, but I've caught 3 fish, my boat partner caught 1, and I've had 2 missed strikes. Besides that, I've only had 2 for sure follows and 2 maybes (deep / might have been northerns). That's over about 60 hours fishing, all on Minnetonka. I troll about 1/3 of the time, so figure 40 hours of casting with just a couple follows. One day my cousin and I were out, and we visually saw 3 muskies while fishing - not follows but hanging out on the surface in 3 different areas. We did not have a single follow that day, but he caught a 44.5.
I've never had that experience - usually I figure 10-15 follows per strike opportunity. It's not that I'm always out there on obvious spots Saturday afternoon after they've seen 10-20 lures already that day - I fish a decent amount during the week, and on weekends try to focus on areas and times people aren't pounding. I also don't think I'm pulling the bait out of the water before the follow shows up - for shallow running baits I L-turn at a minimum and for deeper running baits that are pulled up at boatside, I figure 8 every cast.
Could be coincidence I guess. Maybe I'm doing the right thing to get strikes but fishing marginal areas? Can't complain that I've caught a couple fish, but it'd be nice to get a better handle on where the fish are. |
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Posts: 400
Location: Metro | I'm sure this was already talked about but I don't feel like reading a book. But I would say to really practice the first couple turns on your 8 and make sure it is consistent (this was talked about). Also to figure 8 on fish much longer than you think. I had a fish the other week that hit my 8, 2 minutes after I saw him slowly drift away. Keep it up though! you are seeing fish so you know you are doing things right. |
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Posts: 51
| I feel pretty fortunate to be seeing the fish which is a good thing so I got all the spots marked on the GPS. Once I get the ol' figure 8 down hopefully that results in a few more photos and high fives. I have not ventured out onto Minnetonka yet as I do not know that body of water at all. Hear great things about it but I work 7-4 during the week so not sure how heavy the boat pressure is during the week. Would hate to drive around to a couple launches and not find a spot to park the trailer. Any issues with that or suggestions on launches? |
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Posts: 323
Location: Elk River, MN | Shouldn't have trouble finding a parking spot, there's lots of place to launch/park, especially during the week. Maxwell/North Arm are usually decent |
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Posts: 408
Location: MN | Tonka on weeknights is much quieter than weekend days. I've been out 5-6 weeknights and I don't really recall heading to a spot I want to hit and there being a boat on it - maybe once. Even on Sunday nights there aren't that many boats out muskie fishing.
I put in at either Gray's or Carson's Bay, mainly because they are both close to home.
Carson's is a little more central within the lower lake but you have to walk a little ways to/from the parking lot and if it's your first time there, it might be a little confusing finding it. There is nearby parking but it requires a $120 permit. The free parking lot is gravel and a little ways down the road across the bridge.
Gray's has many clearly marked paved trailer spots close to the launch, but you have to boat a little ways to access anything but Wayzata Bay, which is a fairly busy area.
I've never had a problem finding a spot to park at either one. During super busy times I guess they could fill up, but I haven't seen it like that. On a weeknight you should have no problem finding a spot.
There are a lot of other in other parts of the lake too - I just use those two because they are close for me.
Edited by nar160 6/30/2016 5:01 PM
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Posts: 1126
Location: Minnesota. | Nathan,
Welcome to the fray. If it were easy it just wouldn't be that much fun. There is a lot of very good info. in this post series so read thru it more than once and try to visualize when you have a rod in your grip.
It's muskie fishing and if were easy I'd be bored alongside most everyone else. If it changes it's likely to just get worse...*grins* I think you'll do fine given some time.
I'm still tryin'!!!!
Jeremy. |
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Posts: 833
| The blow out stuff is also critical, I should have added that to my kisses of death. Although, to BNelson's point, sometimes you'll be on the them when they are just ready to visit the net and you can put your lure back in the water even if you screw up and they will still hammer it. Bottom line advice: KEEP DOING THE 8! Some fish will come back.
Edited by Brad P 7/1/2016 9:19 AM
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Posts: 51
| Excellent advice. I am going to try and get one in the net tomorrow morning as I will be going out early. Going to work on the figure 8 tactics. Definitely going to try and get out on Tonka this up coming week and try and learn a few spots out there. My birthday is coming up soon so I might be stopping into cabelas and picking up a longer blade rod. have any of you tried the St. Croix Premiere 8'6" in the heavy action. I have a mojo in that length in extra heavy. Just wondering if I would like the full cork handle better than the split grip. Thanks again for the advice everyone. |
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Posts: 400
Location: Metro | I have an extra heavy and then I believe I have an xxh premier. I love them both and hate the mojos because that cork isn't there and it hurts your ribs. I guess some people like it but I really don't understand how their ribs can handle it after a full day of fishing. You wouldn't regret getting one just make sure its extra heavy action. |
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