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Posts: 210
Location: VA | What are your tips for turning follows into bites?
DR |
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Posts: 366
| Turning followers into biters is mostly about reading fish. Understanding a fish's aggressiveness, or lack there of, and knowing how to respond to that is often knack that you're either born with, or work hard to develop with lots of experience. Fish can make you look like a complete moron, and ten minutes later a complete genius. That being said, there are plenty of things that I often see noobs do that usually isn't the best decision. Going too shallow, too slow, and too tight is often not the best thing to make them chow down. Deep, wide, and fast is my short list of direct tips. But, first off you should try and trigger the fish before you make the L-turn to go into the figure-8. Speed, direction change, and depth change are all important. Think of teasing a kitten with a string. Make them not be able to stand the bait swimming in front of them any longer.
If that all fails, then just keep the bait in the water as long as you can.
Ryan
Edited by Fishwizard 10/9/2010 9:17 PM
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Posts: 210
Location: VA | Thanks Ryan
I fish a shallow river with ultra clear water. I pulled 5 fish yesterday and hooked up to zero. We had 20-30ft clarity with good glass's. So we could see lures and fish coming for a long ways sometimes, but many times the fish would hang deeper than the lure and just turn away as they neared the boat. We did put one in the boat though, but not on the follow. If I could entice 20% of the followers into biters I'd be happy.
DR |
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Posts: 348
| wait till the water stains a bit than pound the area your seeing fish.I fish a clear river also dont be afraid to throw extreamly bright lures |
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Posts: 8716
| I struggled with this for years. "read the fish" everyone said... What is it a %^&% newspaper?? Here comes a fish flying in behind my lure, going about 90, and I'm supposed to figure out what's going on in it's little fish brain?!?
Then I finally caught one on the figure 8. And another, and another... The last few seasons, probably 70% of my fish have eaten at the boat. Not to sound like Yoda, but let every fish a lesson be. Watch what they do when you slow down, or speed up, or change directions... Sometimes you see one coming and you know it's going to eat. Other times you have to coax them. I'm not an expert by any means, far from it. But the more fish you encounter, the more you get a chance to play with them a bit, and that's what's helped me the most. I had a fish this year charge my bait way out at the end of a cast. I so reeled faster. It caught up. So I reeled faster. It caught up again. By the time I was ready to go into my first turn, that fish was on fire. I made my turn, and the fish just smashed the bait. A few years ago, that may have been one that just went around on the 8 and went on its way.
The most important things you've heard a million times: Changes of speed and direction, wide turns, make your 8 or oval as large as possible.
Lately I've noticed that when I get a fish following around the first turn, sometimes it seems like they park there for a second like they've gotten disoriented. Coming around on the outside turn, I'll sometimes stall for a second. JUST a second, to give them time to zero in and eat the bait. Several fish the last few season ate at that moment, where I gave them a chance to catch it. Most times it's the bursts of speed that really get them going, but sometimes you just have to make sure you give them an opportunity. If they want it, they'll eat it. That doesn't mean it's not possible to take it away from them though. I've also been experimenting with a "here 'ya go" move, when I can't get them to commit. It's difficult to describe, but it's kind of like feeding it to them -- bring the bait around and then drag it back right in front of their face, perpendicular to the fish. Seems like presenting it to them sideways and right in front of their nose makes it impossible for them to resist. |
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Posts: 1663
Location: Kodiak, AK | I'm with esoxaddict. I struggled for a long time trying to get a fish in the 8 and then when it happened, it seemed like I couldn't miss. Now I'm peeed if I don't convert a fish in the 8. Go deep, go wide, go fast. And everything else is up to the fish. I converted a fish a few weeks ago that I never should've gotten. She came in way low and slow and just lazy. I already "knew" in my mind that she wasn't going to eat. I went through the motions; I sped up as soon as I saw her, she barely kept up, and I went into the 8 and she went wide and I figured she was gone but I kept going and she came back and hit it in like the 4th 8 and even then she just nipped it and I barely got her. I have no idea why she hit, because every indication she gave me was that she wouldn't. Then the next week I had one flying in hot as could be....twitching, gills flared, mouth open, on the bait. Went into the 8 and she was gone and didn't come back. I did go back a few hours later at moonrise and she ate then, so all I can guess is she just wasn't ready when I first saw her. I think alot of it is up to the fish, but I can't stress enough to do it every time like you have a monster right on it. They can't hit if you don't give them the chance. I've had numerous fish this year come from under the boat that I never would've seen if I wasn't 8'ing after the retrieve.
Fig 8 fish are kinda like picking up chicks...before you've done it, it seems hard and you get nervous and say stupid things and mess it up. Then when one says yes, you're the man and it just seems to happen from there on out. Or is that just me? LOL |
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Location: Ontario | esoxfly - 10/10/2010 8:05 PM
......
Fig 8 fish are kinda like picking up chicks...before you've done it, it seems hard and you get nervous and say stupid things and mess it up. Then when one says yes, you're the man and it just seems to happen from there on out. Or is that just me? LOL
Hehe, I like that  |
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Posts: 393
Location: Hopefully on the water | We have a hard time converting the slow lazy follows at this point. For us if the fish goes into the first turn we generally think we have a good shot at getting hooks into it. Persistance and fundamentals is our key with it. Two weeks ago I got one on the 8 that took about 2 minutes before she finally ate. The way the fish came in hot and the quick turn I felt it was going to go. My figure 8 was a little hurried at first then went back to the form (that works for us) high and slow on the outside turn and fast and low through the straight and inside turn. She ate it on the outside and hit hard. Going the right way with the hooks and positioning yourself to have a good hookset is a huge help.
If you are throiwng hair one thing that has help with very close boatside strikes is to "Whoof" the hair with a couple of hard cranks and or swinging the rod tip to the side to create the first change in direction. Majority of our hits have been with 10 feet of line or less out. It make for some fun boatside action and seeing how fast the net man can get the net. it takes practice and playing around but it does come and happen. Good luck converting on them. |
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Posts: 210
Location: VA | I definitely need to impart some action to the cranks and work on my 8 much more.... plus get that rod in the water WAY sooner. GREAT information that I'll surely use Hopefully on my next trip I can show you a pic or at least tell a tale.
DR |
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Posts: 68
| How long do you guys stay in an area after seeing a follow, swirl or spotting a musky?
Earlier this year I was throwing a Top Raider and had a musky surface about 3 feet behind where the lure splashed into the water (which was only a few feet from shore and a down tree where there was a steep drop-off). The musky surfaced a couple of seconds after the lure hit the water so by this time the lure was maybe 5-6 feet away. It was kind of a slow surface movement where I could see the back, dorsal fin and tail, and didn't seem like it got startled or any kind of aggressive move. I reeled in the Top Raider like I normally would, and didn't notice any kind of follow. This may show my inexperience, but should I have changed speeds on the retrieve?
After getting the lure to the boat I was paying close attention to see if anythings was following it, and nothing. The water was kind of cloudy and I really couldn't see very far. Anyway, I threw the Top Raider back to the same spot and retrieved the lure again like I did the first time. Nothing. Then after my 3rd cast I had a nice size swirl about 10 feet behind me. So now I'm thinking I did get a follow and just couldn't see it. I reel back in as fast as I can, pick up my rod with a double 8 bucktail and start doing a figure 8 with it. Because of how cloudy the water was I couldn't tell if anything was close.
After a few minutes and multiple 8's, I gave up and started casting again, but this time I started throwing a SuperD. After 15 -20 minutes or so, and throwing in every direction around the boat, still nothing and no more signs so I gave up and moved on.
What would you guys have done different to land this fish? And how long do you stay in an area after seeing a musky?
I've never landed a musky on an 8, and have been reading through a few threads to learn some better tactics to try for next time. If there's anything specific in a situation like I encountered that you guy do I'd love to hear it.
Also feel free to bash me if I did something very wrong. I need to learn my lessons!
Thanks! |
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Posts: 210
Location: VA | Kleck, we usually stay about as long as you did...but again....I'm also one that needs help! LOL
We try and come back to those areas again a bit later if possible also. Knowing fish are there is a big part of the ball game imo.
DR |
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Posts: 829
Location: Maple Grove, MN | If she doesn't hit on the figure-8, I'll throw the same lure back to her right away and change speeds and/or add some extra action. If she doesn't hit it, then I'll throw something different at her. If she doesn't hit that, I'll let her sit for 10-20 minutes and come back after her again to see if she changed her mind. I learned the "change her mind" thing from being married. It works sometimes. 
Edited by Herb_b 10/19/2010 12:56 PM
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Posts: 8716
| I think Herb's approach has a lot of merit, too. If they were actively feeding, and wanted your lure? They'd have eaten it before you ever saw them. I tend to think that following fish are basically just not ready to eat yet. Like when you're sitting in front of the TV, and you're kinda hungry. If your wife/girlfriend walked by and handed you a plate with a nice piece of steaming deep dish pizza, you'd eat it, and be glad you had it. But that doesn't mean you are hungry enough to actually get off the couch and get the food yourself. |
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Posts: 994
Location: Minnesota: where it's tough to be a sportsfan! | Fun thoughts...I like to add a little jerking motion into the turns, just to give a bit of a trigger effect. I see allot of guys make the turns too tight. I try to speed up on the straight-a-ways and slow a touch on the turns making a wide arc out of it. If the fish is a beast I go into an oval instead of an 8. I try to see any response from the fish to give an indication for more of this or less of that. The other thing I try to do is convice myself to stay with the motion and not feel the back pain or tightness when working a fish. At the risk of being laughed off the site the last thing is try to keep a positive thought going...even say yes...bite...bite...yes... etc. I believe that if you allow a negative thought pattern to creep in you are going to be more lonely than not.
Then every once in awhile there comes a fish that really plays the game but doesn't bite, a tease if you will....like your bad breath was the last thing wrong! These fish turn you inside out and leave you in a pile on the deck. Gotta love 'em! |
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Posts: 426
Location: Perryville, MO | Many guys have noted that a fish that comes in hot and peels off hard at the boat will often will return and eat if you remain persistent in your figure eight-ing. Sure enough...it paid off for me yesterday. It was a small (low 20's) fish, but fun to have it work. I was starting to feel ridiculous for the effort after the first 10 or 20 times around...and then bam she whacked my bait out of nowhere. Never saw her at all before she came charging through and I darn near peeed my drawers. Tons of fun. (Better yet, it was 1 of three fish in the my net yesterday and the others were high 30's. Mutiple days rock!). |
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Posts: 210
Location: VA | Good for you hawkeye!!!
Multiple days DO ROCK.
DR |
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Posts: 158
| This is a great thread.
Some of the tips comparing fish to wives/being married is spot on. haha. |
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Posts: 1220
| Couple of things I didn't see above. One is a long rod, at least 8 1/2 foot. It is just so much easier to go deeper, faster, wider like they say above, when you have plenty of stick in your hands. You also do it without having to make an aggresive rush to the edge of the boat causing all kinds of body movement against a blue sky. I also go along with trying to avoid the boatside battle by speeding up the bait...you simply don't have enough gear ratio to reel faster than a hungry musky can swim. Last, there is simply no doubt that the better you become, the higher the percentage of figure eight fish you will catch. It never seems to fail that the novice will tell you how he loses fish at boatside, and the really good stick will tell you he catches 70% percent of his fish on eights. You just sort of have to get good at doing this, and then doing it all the time. Marty Forman |
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Posts: 906
Location: Canada | Lots of good info here but I didn't read anything about what to do with a glider style jerk bait with short line out at the boat with a follow up. Had this happen to me today, kinda confused me as what to do. I did get a couple of short line pulls in before the musky slowly sank back into the depths. Do you just keep pulling with short taps like I did or do you figure 8 this style lure also? |
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Posts: 458
| For me i will just reel the glider real fast at the end and that sometimes works. I haven't had a lot of luck figure 8 ing a glider. |
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Posts: 210
Location: VA | 8 follows today, not a single bite. I actually watched one fish open it's mouth to suck in the crank and change his mind at the last second. I could see the white inside it's mouth. Just frustrating to pull so many fish and never get a tap. Everything from inlines to cranks, and even a tube pulled fish. Zero pattern there for sure.
I might take up "drinking" LOL
DR |
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| Alright. Here's my latest scenario.....
Clear water. Clouds. Fish come in like a bullet. As in, they're not following, they're in acceleration mode and closing fast. You literally see them for only a split second and before you can even react, it almost looks like their face and their tail occupy the same space at the same time and they're gone just as fast. I have no idea how such big fish can be so maneuverable. They do a 180 in a blink. If you're not watching the bait at the last 6 feet of the retrieve, you'll miss the whole thing.
Threw the box at them. Most came in on large gliders, fished very erratically.
There's no opportunity to even do anything at boatside. |
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Posts: 210
Location: VA | Addict, I hear ya.
Mine are the opposite, they come in lazy and go out the same way. Some are hotter than others, but for the most part kinda lazy. Some right ON the lures tail but most just laying back just watching it.
DR |
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Posts: 245
| When i have a follow i just gradually start increasing speed, it works most often and if they follow all the way into the boat a big slow figure 8 or O usually does it. |
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Posts: 210
Location: VA | I think our dilemma is more related to fishing shallow moving waters versus most of the folks here fishing deep lake Ski. Without the security of depth that the lakes have, our fish may? be a little more wary.
They see many many bass fisherman and lures related to bass fishing than any fish needs to see. Couple that with the super clear waters we usually have and it might equate to some of the follows we have on a usual day out.
There's no doubt that we can do a better job at the boat with 8"s and 0's, and the tips here will surely help us. If we figure this "lazy follow" thing out, we could surely capitalize on some great fish.
DR |
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Posts: 97
Location: Chaska MN. | Speed or should I say a change of speed, and of course a well executed fig 8 |
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Posts: 173
Location: Probably Minnesota that time... | Seems like every year we have one or two days where the only thing that will show us fish are gliders. These fish are mainly lazy, but occasionally we have some aggressive follows where they're right on the bait. almost all turn away before you even get to the boat. Speed up, pauses, follow up with soft plastics, speeding small bucktails, fast & slow erratic jerks, twitch-cranks, and walk the dog topwaters at prime time. I don't get it there are days they hit, but the days where they only follow gliders have got me stumped! Anyone else experience this, it often can be 5-10 opportunities, some of these fish coming in 2-3 diff. times. These are Frustrating days, anyone have some tricks that have worked?
-Chris |
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Posts: 1
| My biggest question has to do with swirls. If I see a swirl, I try to throw a super spook near it and just wait. After 30 seconds maybe give it a twitch. First time I tried this( about a month ago) I got a giant strike, had him hooked, pulled him in about 30-40 yds including a jump but 10 from the boat the lure found an underwater tree and the musky got off. Since then, no luck throwing spooks at the swirls. Any suggestions? |
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Posts: 70
| Some fish are going to go for the eight, and some are going to turn away, a lot of it has to do with the fish. With a bucktail I like to keep the depths and speed exactly the same going into a nice big round eight. With a bulldog I do more of two triangles very fast. A lot of it depends on the lure. When a fish comes in hot with his tail higher than his eyes and the bait sitting on his nose that’s a hot fish and it’s going to go. Usually low slow fish fade away. |
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Posts: 1937
Location: Black Creek, WI | DR in VA, sounds like you are dealing with some tough conditions. I'm assuming these fish are not responding to "chase baits" and are only showing themselves on your cranks/jerks? If this is the case, I'd focus LESS on converting followers and work on refining your presentation to trigger an ambush strike out from the boat. More or longer pauses. More violent rips between pauses. Use a neutrally bouyant or sinking lure rather than a highly bouyant lure (better for long pauses on "lazy" fish). Good luck and enjoy the chase. |
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