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Posts: 45
| I read Tom Gelb's "Musky Strategy" and there's a part where he says white baits should be used outside periods of stratification (so no thermocline is present; eg after turnover in the fall). He recommends perch coloured baits during periods of stratification instead. This makes some sense in principle, if most musky are not keying in on or don't have access to cisco/open water baitfish until the thermocline breaks down. Unfortunately, I recently bought a couple white blue water baits at great expense to the management (me) for an early fall trip this year (turnover will not have happened). I'm wondering if anyone has any opinions and experience with this. I haven't run a lot of white baits before other than baits with white bellies that could pretty much fall into the perch category. I know on the French River guys like to run white baits year round for instance. Gelb's theory also seems strange given that he writes about big muskies 'babysitting' cisco all year long. Just wanting to make the right colour choices on my September trip and put time on the water to best use. Look forward to hearing thoughts on this,
Edited by EsoxWanderer 6/6/2023 7:42 AM
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| White is a good fishing color in both dark and clear water and in both Plugs and Bucktails. |
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Location: Chisholm, MN | White baits work all year. Overthinking it. Ciscos bust the surface in the evening all season and also ciscos are not white. So the theory is not accurate in my opinion. |
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Location: Selkirk, Manitoba | White is good all the time. |
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Location: Alberta Canada | Here is my opinion on whit with all predators in general and a little on lure colors
First off in my opinion fisherman overthink patterns/colors. Especially with fast moving bats fish don’t really get a lot of time to really analyze them. For the most part somewhat close looks just as good as the real deal because of this. Then get into how water affects light penetrating in turn impacting color. This is amplified in chop and water clarity
But as a guy who makes lures I can tell you I have customers who swear it makes a difference. For my personal baits I usually fish anything with imperfections, basic slap together paint, or random patterns I got bored and wanted to see what they looked like. I do have some perfect baits I fish but they don’t put fish the ugly ones
As for white in my opinion it is always a good option for predators because a large portion of forage has a white belly and it has good visibility. I pour my baits out of resin and they come out white and I have caught a lot of fish testing un painted prototypes
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| I have a white/silver Believer that has been successful on musky, short line/prop wash trolling. It was suggested to me by a bait shop owner for prop wash trolling. His take was that it stood out in that turbid water. |
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| I like white when the sky's are overcast. |
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Posts: 103
| Kirby Budrow - 6/6/2023 8:46 AM
ciscos are not white.
Ummm, what color are they? I'd say they are at least "whitish" in color.
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Location: Chisholm, MN | gimruis - 6/6/2023 12:36 PM
Kirby Budrow - 6/6/2023 8:46 AM
ciscos are not white.
Ummm, what color are they? I'd say they are at least "whitish" in color.
Silver, brown, black, green, blue, pink, white belly. They're not solid white and if anyone thinks a musky sees a bait wizzing by and thinks, "hey thats white, it must be a cisco. I'll eat it", they give them way too much credit.
Edited by Kirby Budrow 6/6/2023 12:58 PM
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| Why do fish have white bellies? (hint it's not to make them MORE visible to predators swimming beneath them) |
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| I like white because it's easier for me to see, screw the fish lol |
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| In getting ready for your September trip there are 101 things to worry about other than color...just make sure you have a few all black baits however  |
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Location: Chisholm, MN | BillM - 6/6/2023 4:19 PM
I like white because it's easier for me to see, screw the fish lol
This is the correct answer |
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Location: PA Angler | Must be the only one here that never caught anything off of just a white lure. Usually multi color with white bellies. |
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| BillM - 6/6/2023 4:19 PM
I like white because it's easier for me to see, screw the fish lol
Hard to argue with that logic! One of the lakes I fish is very dark water and is known for a pretty consistent bite on anything black. Every time we fish there I throw a white lure so I can see what I'm doing and switch to black after someone else catches a fish. On a black lure... |
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Posts: 103
| Kirby Budrow - 6/6/2023 12:57 PM
Silver, brown, black, green, blue, pink, white belly. They're not solid white and if anyone thinks a musky sees a bait wizzing by and thinks, "hey thats white, it must be a cisco. I'll eat it", they give them way too much credit.
No, I don't think that either. But they do in fact have some white in them. That's all I'm saying. I wouldn't call a cisco green or pink or purple either, but they tend to have some of those color hues on them too.
Edited by gimruis 6/6/2023 9:00 PM
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Location: new richmond, wi. & isle, mn | It's all black or white! Colors don't supercede confidence! |
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| Has anyone seen anything in the water that's Chartreuse? As far as color goes who knows? One day dad and I were fishing a action lake we just left Rollie & Helens and I caught a small Muskie and seen a few others then we went to a good spot on the lake where we have caught a number of fish in the past. Casting away nothing, put on a brand new Bucktail Silver blade Purple Tail one cast 36" incher. So at times color can made a difference. I've lived out west my whole life (California and Colorado) with Trout color makes all the difference in the world just ask a Great Lakes troller, they have lure combos then anyone. |
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Location: Alberta Canada | chuckski - 6/7/2023 9:17 AM
Has anyone seen anything in the water that's Chartreuse? As far as color goes who knows? One day dad and I were fishing a action lake we just left Rollie & Helens and I caught a small Muskie and seen a few others then we went to a good spot on the lake where we have caught a number of fish in the past. Casting away nothing, put on a brand new Bucktail Silver blade Purple Tail one cast 36" incher. So at times color can made a difference. I've lived out west my whole life (California and Colorado) with Trout color makes all the difference in the world just ask a Great Lakes troller, they have lure combos then anyone.
When it comes to opinion on color it is always a topic where fisherman rarely agree and there is such a variation of theories. When it comes to must have colors opinions vary and change with different regions even if the forage is the same
Living in western Canada (both B.C. and Alberta over the years) I have do a ton of trout fishing to the point I got bored of it. I guided rainbows, cutthroat, and bull trout for a few years even. Caught every species of trout/char in both provinces ranging from golden trout to lakers. Even raised rainbow for a living for 10years
I actually don’t find them all that picky for color selection and actually find trout not too bright in general. Often it was just a matter of getting the offering into the strike zone and picking a color visible for the conditions. River fish are the least picky especially in faster water. Caught them on tinfoil, bubble gum, grass, fluff from my jacket, unpainted wood plugs, boogers, and the list of random strange items can keep going. Like I said I got bored lol
I will say big browns in clear high pressure water are definitely on a different IQ level then other trout through. Mostly when in rivers where they can see you
Personally I find cadence, correct presentation, and ability to get it in the strike zone has always been the make or break factor for the day trout fishing. Color has never been a make or break factor for my days trout fishing
Color in my opinion outside of being visible for the conditions seems to be more of a fisherman’s confidence thing. Really if we don’t have faith in something we don’t use it long enough and if we have confidence in something we stick at it often making it seem more effective because we catch more fish on it
In the end if it works it works and that is what matters. Really we are all just making random guesses and playing off of what we have experienced but non of us can communicate with the fish to truly know
Color is always a dived topic with tons of different options and theories |
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| not sure about turnover specifically, but in recent years i have had great luck with white perch patterns. ive just kind of figured its a good representation of multiple species. |
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| Stocker Trout are dumb, but color does make a difference. Years ago I was in a Mountain Lake fishing for Tigers with no luck, late in the day I picked up a ultra light with a Mepps #1 and started casting for the next hour and a half I caught a fish on every cast, then the next half hour a fish on every other cast the then every third cast, got bored and went home.
They did not stock the lake I've had fast fishing after they stocked. (this was not the case) |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Color is completely dependent on available light, and light and water don't mix. What you see above the surface will be changed dramatically under water. White is the presence of all colors, and black absense. Both contrast better than most other colors.
Most bait colors are compound colors, complicating what the fish can see underwater with varying amounts of light penetration due to sun angle, strength, cloud cover, time of year, what the base color in the compound color is, and more. Remember, water filters out colors from red first to violet last (think rainbow, but solid water, not rain). Orange is red/yellow or yellow/red...what color is that 5' down on a 6 PM in June in tannic water? Clear water?
Consider also that the Muskie's vision is directed forward and up, and most presentations need to be above the fish. Contrast is key, so dark background, light lure, light background, dark lure.
That's where the old axiom 'dark day, dark lure, light day, light lure' comes from. Think about it, the muskie looks up most of the time, so the sky is the background for many lures. On a dark day, the sky is cloudy, or white to light gray. Dark lures show up well. Light day, you are dealing with sunny skies, and as you go under the water, the background looking up goes from blue to deep violet, so a white, chartreuse or similar light color will contrast nicely.
Edited from a 2015 post... |
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Location: Alberta Canada | chuckski - 6/7/2023 11:30 AM
Stocker Trout are dumb, but color does make a difference. Years ago I was in a Mountain Lake fishing for Tigers with no luck, late in the day I picked up a ultra light with a Mepps #1 and started casting for the next hour and a half I caught a fish on every cast, then the next half hour a fish on every other cast the then every third cast, got bored and went home.
They did not stock the lake I've had fast fishing after they stocked. (this was not the case)
No worries I know my opinion on color and patterns is not popular with many fisherman regardless of species. I actually have had some pretty good arguments with some of the guys I guided with in the past too. In the end all our clients caught fish and did well
Stockies are dumb I won’t fish them or rainbows anymore. 90% of my trout fishing was/is wild fish. All my guiding was wild fish. All the times I threw strange things to catch trout it was wild fish. To be fair some were remote areas that barely see people and these trout make stockies look smart. Plain silver hook has actually caught a good number of trout in some back country creeks in northern B.C. lol
I have been a bit of a gypsy in life lived and fished/hunted all over B.C./Alberta(fished Saskatchewan/Washington too)covering a huge number of trout waters. Everything from high pressure city fishing to fly in/hike in waters
Like I said in the end go with what works for you because regardless of opinions if you are getting results it’s all that matters
Really when it comes to fishing a guy just has to go out and try things to find what works for them. This goes for all aspects of fishing |
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| After labor day white isn't considered fashionable |
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Location: Selkirk, Manitoba | Colour does matter - it is just with musky the data coming back is so limited and so many confounding variables that there is almost no way to know whether what you have on is better than what's in your box. You have history fishing in your favourite waters and if you have other folks in the boat, that can help.
Where I fish muskies, pike are prevalent and if they are happy with the presentation, well, it is better than otherwise. If they are not happy, I change. In general though, two guys using same lure and same colour, the cadence, speed and depth of retrieve probably going to change outcomes more than using different colours. One guy is going to get more action if they are getting equal probabilities of putting the lure in the awareness zones of muskies - which frankly, is not likely, so again, another variable that you can't really sort out of the data.
Outside of muskies though, the colour test can be done with reliable feedback. We have close to, if not the best walleye fishery in the world here on Lake Winnipeg - and right now when fishing for them will be a multi-species bite with perch, saugers, pike, bullheads, channel catfish and drum in the mix. Jigs are always a winner - and when they are biting, you do get the data you need - ie. change in colour jig head/twister tail/hair - eye or no eye on jig, rattle or no rattle - red hook or dark - small subtle things make a HUGE difference. Most folks settle for a good bite - but this is where you have to realize that a FANTASTIC, best in world bite is available if you make a subtle change - colour is probably the biggest factor. The interesting thing is this: it goes across all these species. Fishing in the same place, same everything, one colour works, the other, meh. I've seen bites where you can't even close the bail and jig engulfed - they are literally competing. Other fellows in boat, wrong colour - only the odd bite or rejected entirely. Colour IS a factor - For Sure.
Muskies are not going to be any different, they are going to have preferences (this may vary among fish or what part of the lake fishing, forage they are targetting) but as I said, you just can't gather enough information to sort through the other variables. However, a lodge and all their guests during the season can get a pretty good handle on it and you'd be a fool to not run with their advice. Likewise local knowledge if you can get it.
Edited by Angling Oracle 6/7/2023 2:31 PM
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Location: Long Prairie, Minnesota | Last trip we took to LOTW was in July and between my brother and myself we destroyed 2 Llungen DC-9's that were white with golf blades. Never came off the poles because it was catching everything. Just made myself a new white bucktail with gold blades and I'll throw that thing every day if I could |
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| Frogs are the lady finger sandwiches of the predator fish world. Frogs have white bellies. |
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| Some lures are designed to catch fish, but most are designed to catch fisherman's wallets. |
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| its okay to fish white. |
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Location: Selkirk, Manitoba | Ranger - 6/7/2023 4:14 PM
Frogs are the lady finger sandwiches of the predator fish world. Frogs have white bellies.
You'd be amazed how many frogs you will find in pike that we keep ice fishing - they sniff them out in the mud apparently. |
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