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Posts: 731
| Most of us know that the cisco,whitefish based lakes usually grow the biggest fish. But, how well do you think muskies grow on a diet of carp? Many southern wis. lakes have that large carp population so as more southern wis. lakes are stocked, can a carp forage base grow trophy fish? I know carp are an important food source on the fox chain in IL. Kdawg |
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Posts: 38
| If you have some time, Google "do muskies eat carp". There is a ton of information out there from various sources. They answer is "depends". Time of year, other available forge base, etc. are all variables. I fish the SE Wisconsin lakes as well and often wondered the same. I remember listening to a (now retired) guide from Pewaukee at a Muskellunge Club of Wisconsin meeting (great club btw) and he said if you aren't fishing carp colored baits in spring on Pewaukee, you're missing out. I never forgot that statement. I'm going to do some research on carp to understand their spawning and migration habits. Good topic, following.
Pat |
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| About 10 years ago, there was a story about upper 40s musky found along the banks of the Wis. River at a park in Stevens Point. It apparently had choked trying to swallow what was estimated to be a 5 or 6 pound carp. Photo showed the tail sticking out of the musky's mouth. Big musky, but that was a little too much. |
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Posts: 1275
Location: Hayward, Wisconsin | Same carp chocking thing happened to a 60 incher found dead on Mille Lacs! |
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Posts: 1196
Location: E. Tenn | Here in the south, carp are a target of opportunity (especially during their spawning season). |
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Posts: 731
| Just another thought here. How much damage do carp do to pan and gamefish populations in some lakes? You read quite a bit about folks saying," if you stock muskies they will eat all the walleyes, or they will eat our panfish." One would think by stocking a limited number of muskies to keep a check on the carp, who probably gorge themselves on game and pan fish eggs, the fishery could only improve,no? Kdawg |
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Posts: 20178
Location: oswego, il | I would say that carp population would determine how much they are used as a good source. They are plentiful in the fox chain but now shad are more so. Mad chain has a large population too but also just as many bullheads and more panfish. Castle Rock and Petenwell may be lakes where Muskies utilize them more significantly because they compromise a larger portion of the biomass. |
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Posts: 343
| I was allowed to help stock tiger muskies in a small pond overrun with carp. Within a year small carp were severely reduced in their gill nets. The following year larger carp were reduced as well. The reservoir is becoming significantly clearer with limited small carp, but still contains big carp. As carp make up the majority of the lakes biomass. it is obvious that the tigers are feeding on them. I stocked the 8-10 tigers in the fall of 2015 and Wyoming Game and Fish has sampled tigers up to 37 inches in the spring of 2020. Condition of the tigers are decent but not overly heavy, so they make good but not great forage in my opinion. |
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Posts: 1181
| I think nutritionally, they are good forage. Fatty fish, probably not much different than redhorse. However, they grow too big too fast, and they are extremely successful breeders. I don't think you can really do much to control their population through predation. They are buggers to get rid of. Usually takes extreme measures. In some of the small, shallow, lakes and sloughs in southern Minnesota, they have had to drain and let freeze, to get rid of them. Here in the metro, there are a few lakes that they have used commercial fisherman to take them with nets through the ice. It makes a serious dent in the population and allows the predators like tigers, pike, and bass, to better help slow down reproduction, but it is in no way a permanent fix. |
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| TCESOX - 2/28/2021 11:40 AM
I think nutritionally, they are good forage. Fatty fish, probably not much different than redhorse. However, they grow too big too fast, and they are extremely successful breeders. I don't think you can really do much to control their population through predation. They are buggers to get rid of. Usually takes extreme measures. In some of the small, shallow, lakes and sloughs in southern Minnesota, they have had to drain and let freeze, to get rid of them. Here in the metro, there are a few lakes that they have used commercial fisherman to take them with nets through the ice. It makes a serious dent in the population and allows the predators like tigers, pike, and bass, to better help slow down reproduction, but it is in no way a permanent fix.
Growing up a block from the Wisconsin River in central Wisconsin, back when bullheads and carp were about the only thing that could survive in it, that was what I remember. The carp grow quickly and get big. When bow fishing the sloughs during spawning time, you didn't see anything under 20 inches, most a lot bigger. They don't stay prey size for very long. If you can find a way to catch on hook and line, you will find them to be incredible fighters. Many years ago a writer for an outdoors magazine, think it was Field and Stream, said they were the hardest fighting of all fresh water fish. Fishing them next to the old cannery in Wis. Rapids, we caught them up to 50 pounds. The smaller ones, in the ten pound range, were the best fighting fish. Back in the day, the state allowed the cannery to just dump the bean waste right into the river and the carp feasted on that. |
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Posts: 112
| One of the lakes I fish most often has a very diverse forage base, but it is largely comprised of carp. I'm convinced that the lake, given the absurd amount of forage available (trolling your screen is lit up like a dang Christmas tree), could kick out a monsterous fish. A large muskie could snack on the plentiful carp too large for the smaller muskies and pike. Have yet to catch a trophy size musky there. Hard to tease out what is caused by the large amount of forage in general vs the large amount of carp, but I've noticed a few interesting things about the lake.
1. The fish tend to nip baits moreso than any other fishery I've fished. Normally I'd catch more fish that headhunt the baits or really smoke them hard, but here many are just barely hooked on just the rear treble. And I get hits jigging my bondy so light it's like a crappie upbite.
2. It supports an extremely high density of muskies, but you wouldn't know it haha. They don't feel the need to chase down your baits as much as other fisheries. When the window turns on, you can just cover water and hammer them trolling, but when they don't bite, you simply don't see them and you really cannot trigger them.
3. Aside from them liking larger baits year-round than other fisheries, I've noticed no clear preference for bait color.
Again, this may be due to the high amount of forage in general rather than carp specifically. Just some of my random thoughts/observations. |
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Posts: 20178
Location: oswego, il | true tiger tamer - 2/28/2021 11:18 AM
I was allowed to help stock tiger muskies in a small pond overrun with carp. Within a year small carp were severely reduced in their gill nets. The following year larger carp were reduced as well. The reservoir is becoming significantly clearer with limited small carp, but still contains big carp. As carp make up the majority of the lakes biomass. it is obvious that the tigers are feeding on them. I stocked the 8-10 tigers in the fall of 2015 and Wyoming Game and Fish has sampled tigers up to 37 inches in the spring of 2020. Condition of the tigers are decent but not overly heavy, so they make good but not great forage in my opinion.
Carp on the high plains lakes are overabundant and the majority not really big. They may have even been stocked at least in ponds I have heard farmers say they stock them to have fish, Don't really care about fishing or what's in the pond. They used to stock pike but they believe they will leave the state in ruin. They should stock the high plains impoundments with tigers. |
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Posts: 1181
| I think tigers are a great fish to experiment with, since they don't reproduce. If they don't do what you want, or you feel they are detrimental to your fishery, you simply quit stocking and allow harvest, and they won't be around very long. They will basically just disappear. |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | Europeans coming over to the Larry to fish for carp has become a big deal 20 or more 15 to 35 pound fish in a day from shore has got to be a lot of fun.
I keep telling hoser I'm going to quit fishing muskie and spend my days sitting in a lawn chair with a can of corn and a sling shot carp fishing.
When it comes time to sell my place out in the sticks and move into the city I've been scoping out a waterfront condo on the Larry be nice to sit in a lawn chair in the morning with a coffee and a carp rod. only a 2 block walk to the marina short trip on a mobility scooter. Getting old sucks but better than the alternative. |
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| horsehunter - 2/28/2021 1:28 PM
Europeans coming over to the Larry to fish for carp has become a big deal 20 or more 15 to 35 pound fish in a day from shore has got to be a lot of fun.
I keep telling hoser I'm going to quit fishing muskie and spend my days sitting in a lawn chair with a can of corn and a sling shot carp fishing.
When it comes time to sell my place out in the sticks and move into the city I've been scoping out a waterfront condo on the Larry be nice to sit in a lawn chair in the morning with a coffee and a carp rod. only a 2 block walk to the marina short trip on a mobility scooter. Getting old sucks but better than the alternative.
Yep, we never could figure out why but carp would bite on a couple pieces of corn floating in a sea of bean waste. |
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Posts: 20178
Location: oswego, il | Carp love cottonwood too. They will eat it right off the surface. |
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Posts: 1196
Location: E. Tenn | ToddM - 2/28/2021 3:32 PM
Carp love cottonwood too. They will eat it right off the surface.
A half inch piece of craft fur, tied in the middle to a single hook, makes a great "fly". A 7 wt. setup works really well for this.
Use yellow to mimic popcorn for the "marina pets"....when noone else is around..
Edited by miket55 2/28/2021 10:37 PM
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