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Posts: 140
Location: Maryland | Looking into making my own dive n rise jerkbait.an Pine be used for making it????
Or would another type of wood be recommended? |
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| pine is not good , for jerk ,glidebait maple is really good ,cedar too |
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Posts: 1134
Location: NorthCentral WI | I could be wrong but I thought all wooden Suicks were made of pine. If that is fact then I'd say pine is proven to be more than acceptable for lure making.
Edited by MartinTD 10/8/2019 10:25 AM
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Posts: 2224
Location: SE, WI. | MartinTD - 10/8/2019 10:23 AM I could be wrong but I thought all wooden Suicks were made of pine. If that is fact then I'd say pine is proven to be more than acceptable for lure making. g Good Point Martin. There are many different densities in pine. I've built surface baits for years with pine. I actually liked the way pine sat in the Water. After building baits with cedar, I opted for pine with higher grain and density. JD
Edited by jdsplasher 10/8/2019 1:24 PM
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Posts: 140
Location: Maryland | Thank you guys. |
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Posts: 54
| Pine is great, totally underrated for baitmaking in my opinion. Makes good topwaters, and when weighted correctly makes quite lively crankbaits, dive and rise baits as well as gliders. The only issue I occasionally encounter with certain pines (like the harder clear cabinet grade that has tiny pitch inclusions) is pitch bleeding through the primer layer and into the paint; a coat of zinc based primer/sealer like Zinsser Bullseye or something like minwax wood hardener will prevent that. Also be careful if you’re making batches of baits you’d like to ensure are consistent to a prototype, pine varys quite a bit in density board to board and also changes with age more than most other species, getting denser and harder the older it gets - I know, I know, great material for a pun there but I couldn’t think of any other way to say it... Point is, if you go to reproduce the bait, you may need quite a bit more or less weight depending on the “new” batch of pine you’re using.
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Posts: 1529
| never pine or poplar. get some tight cell cedar..seal it well ..poplars swell when wet and pines don't hold screw eyes well. |
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| listen to that georgie boy,he have made at least 100 000 00 cranks over the years.same thing for barelly 100% of lsc others lure makers telling that pine is great and underrated don'T look right to me .if it would be that good guys would using it. for cranks almost 100% of the best lure makers are using cedar. 1vw could you share whit us couple of great lure makers that are using pine? when something is ''underrated'' it's generally for obvious reason. i can understand for some brand of rod ,line ,reel lures because sometimes the better are not the mostly used for reason like visibility ,sponsor ,lobby etc etc but for woods whit the tons of lure makers out there i guess if they chose cedar over pine it's good reasons and not because of the cedar lobby lol. anyway if you loving it fine but don't push too hard. btw even if im far to love suick they have been made out of cedar too
Edited by supertrollr 10/16/2019 5:50 PM
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Posts: 54
| Off the top of my head, great bait makers that use pine are Highroller Lures, Suick, Bobbie baits, Greg Vinall in AU, I'm sure there are more. Rapalas were made from pine BARK for a long time before they went to balsa. Balsa by the way, doesn't hold screw eyes or stand up to torque as good as pine does, but that doesn't stop Crane baits or Rapala, does it.
This argument has been around forever and will be around forever and is just silly. You can use pretty much whatever you want to make a bait as long as you understand the properties of what you're working with and therefore the precautions you must take. You don't absolutely have to have cedar for this and maple for that whatever, that's just ridiculous.
Some of the best baits out there, baits that arguably changed the game are not made of the old standards of cedar or maple. Supernatural baits for example aren't cedar, their hardwoods which would typically crack if not treated properly. Lunker Punkers are willow of all things.
Pine is underrated because of the proliferation of "must use this or that" wood based on narrow confines of tradition and colloquial wisdom. People who step off that train and try something else sometimes make a bait that is a gamechanger.
The question was if pine could be used for a dive & rise bait, why yes, yes it can, just ask Suick. |
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Posts: 54
| Holy Moly, take it easy dude. I'm not trying to change lure making, I'm simply making a point about what's perceived to be "right" and the "only" things that should be used. The question wasn't even what's the best wood to use. The question was "can pine be used" and the answer is yes, there are proven lures made out of pine.
I had read an article a while ago where Supernatural baits were made of hardwoods like walnut and cherry, maybe that's my mistake or that's changed.
Highroller lures by the way are a long standing brand used extensively by people who fish for peacock bass, which fight much harder than muskies pound for pound.
Also, what gave you the impression that I use pine? I generally don't. The question was if it could be used. Why I think pine is underrated is because it's mechanical strengths surpass that of cedars which can in fact be your "single advantage" see these engineering stats on softwoods keeping in mind western red cedar is the primary cedar being used:
Out of curiosity, what baits do you make? I don't think I've seen anything you've made posted here and was just curious if someone with such a strong defensive position or who feels so free to tell someone what wood they should use even makes baits?
Edited by 1VW 10/17/2019 12:52 PM
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Posts: 2224
Location: SE, WI. |
1VW - 10/17/2019 8:47 AM Off the top of my head, great bait makers that use pine are Highroller Lures, Suick, Bobbie baits, Greg Vinall in AU, I'm sure there are more. Rapalas were made from pine BARK for a long time before they went to balsa. Balsa by the way, doesn't hold screw eyes or stand up to torque as good as pine does, but that doesn't stop Crane baits or Rapala, does it. This argument has been around forever and will be around forever and is just silly. You can use pretty much whatever you want to make a bait as long as you understand the properties of what you're working with and therefore the precautions you must take. You don't absolutely have to have cedar for this and maple for that whatever, that's just ridiculous. Some of the best baits out there, baits that arguably changed the game are not made of the old standards of cedar or maple. Supernatural baits for example aren't cedar, their hardwoods which would typically crack if not treated properly. Lunker Punkers are willow of all things. Pine is underrated because of the proliferation of "must use this or that" wood based on narrow confines of tradition and colloquial wisdom. People who step off that train and try something else sometimes make a bait that is a gamechanger. The question was if pine could be used for a dive & rise bait, why yes, yes it can, just ask Suick. Well said Virg! Softer woods like pine and Balsa have their place in the fishing Industry. Very good action, buoyant, and well diversified. There are Parameters with any wooden lure. Any lure period! Part of being a good fisherman is knowledge on how to be versatile with any Tool in your box. Heck, some of the best baits out there, IMO are Balsa, with the great action they Display. Heck, I've boated around 3,000 ski's on balsa Baits. Fishing is Not a tug-a- War. It's playing a fish out, and successfully landing your catch. All woods have there time and place, and everyone has an opinion. Respect ones Opinion!!! JD |
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| 1VW - 10/17/2019 8:47 AM
Off the top of my head, great bait makers that use pine are Highroller Lures, Suick, Bobbie baits, Greg Vinall in AU, I'm sure there are more. Rapalas were made from pine BARK for a long time before they went to balsa. Balsa by the way, doesn't hold screw eyes or stand up to torque as good as pine does, but that doesn't stop Crane baits or Rapala, does it.
This argument has been around forever and will be around forever and is just silly. You can use pretty much whatever you want to make a bait as long as you understand the properties of what you're working with and therefore the precautions you must take. You don't absolutely have to have cedar for this and maple for that whatever, that's just ridiculous.
Some of the best baits out there, baits that arguably changed the game are not made of the old standards of cedar or maple. Supernatural baits for example aren't cedar, their hardwoods which would typically crack if not treated properly. Lunker Punkers are willow of all things.
Pine is underrated because of the proliferation of "must use this or that" wood based on narrow confines of tradition and colloquial wisdom. People who step off that train and try something else sometimes make a bait that is a gamechanger.
The question was if pine could be used for a dive & rise bait, why yes, yes it can, just ask Suick.
no luck for you,cranks from duff are made out of cedar.you still wrong . here is some good info for educational purpose https://www.supernaturalbigbaits.com/pages/about-us |
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| I am not a lure maker but do a lot of wood working. Discussing pine as if it were one species, with the same characteristics can be misleading. Wide variety of conifers, with different density levels, etc. For example here in the Midwest most treated wood is made with southern yellow pine. It is porous, open grain, grows fast, accepts the chemicals easily. Working on a project up in Alaska a couple years ago, found the treated wood was made with Doug fir. It is much denser, slower growing, has tighter grain than southern yellow. To get it to accept the chemicals in the process, it has tiny slits forced into the surface.
Even within the same species, different characteristics. Old growth white pine tends to have narrow growth rings, very stable and denser than most other pine. The white pine we have now has wider growth rings, less dense, etc.
Even cedar can vary greatly. For example, yellow cedar that grows in Alaska and the pacific northwest is much denser than white or red cedar. |
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Posts: 54
| North of 8, you are speaking exactly about what I was trying to convey - except much more concisely than me! Even within the same species of pine, grown in the same region, lumber will be different thanks to shrinkage and thus density changes as that lumber ages. Something like old white pine can be ridiculously hard compared to kiln dried more recent harvest white pine.
Supertroller: Supernatural baits might be made of cedar now, but they weren't always; here's a quote from an article dating to October 2017 "Built with a thick metal lip placed at a certain angle, the Headlock eventually worked to Thury's expectations. Employing only certain types of local wood — ash, walnut, and cherry — with precise densities, Thury achieved his desired buoyancy." https://www.in-fisherman.com/editorial/giant-muskie-lures/153316
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Posts: 833
| Just a fun add in, some of Duff's first baits were actually resin. He had a piece he wrote awhile back where talked about his development process and mentioned that tidbit. I know it doesn't add to this, but fun info.
Just my opinion, but I think JDSplasher's comments make the most sense. I get that Cedar is a rule of thumb, I've heard it and read it a 1000x as well, but that doesn't means you can't make a bait out of pine. Give it a try, see what happens. |
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