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ArtieT |
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Posts: 21 | Is ethanol free, recreational fuel, and non-alcohol gas all the same? I've seen all three and it seems like recreational fuel is usually the most expensive. | ||
| mikie |
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Location: Athens, Ohio | Might it be the federal excise tax (Breaux-Wallop)? If so, that money gets split up for states' outdoor program funding. Same thing you pay on fishing gear. m | ||
| VMS |
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Posts: 3469 Location: Elk River, Minnesota | ArtieT - 2/19/2019 8:06 AM Is ethanol free, recreational fuel, and non-alcohol gas all the same? I've seen all three and it seems like recreational fuel is usually the most expensive. They are not the same. The 91 octane non-ethanol fuel will burn a little more smoothly, and will give you a very very slight increase in output. Both fuels work well in your equipment, and someone will most likely tell you "only run non-ethanol fuel in your outboard." because the alcohol blended fuel will enhance the deterioration of gaskets, fuel lines, etc. Most, if not all of those situations occur from an engine that is not properly stored or taken care of. I've run 87 ethanol blended fuels in my engines for as long as I remember. Engines from the 70's and on, and have yet to have any issues with any engine. The ONLY one I would ever be worried about would be the 1973 Johnson 20 hp that is still in the family as the fuel lines on the motor have never been changed and are not alcohol resistant, and due to being 46 years old...probably need to be changed anyway. Run the 87 octane all you want....the engines of today are designed to handle alcohol blended fuels. At the end of the season, be sure to stabilize the fuel, and/or run the fuel out of your motor... All will be good for next season. Steve Edited by VMS 2/20/2019 3:51 PM | ||
| ArtieT |
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Posts: 21 | I understand there’s a difference between ethanol and non ethanol gas, but I was curious of the different labeling of “rec gas”, “ethanol free”, and “no alcohol” gas? They all seem to be non ethanol. Is one better or worse than the other? | ||
| North of 8 |
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ArtieT - 2/20/2019 8:52 PM I understand there’s a difference between ethanol and non ethanol gas, but I was curious of the different labeling of “rec gas”, “ethanol free”, and “no alcohol” gas? They all seem to be non ethanol. Is one better or worse than the other? Locally, what I have noticed is the place selling "rec gas, ethanol free" is that it is 91 octane, a little higher octane than the place selling "non-ethanol" at 87 octane. Don't know if that means anything, just what I observed. | |||
| VMS |
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Posts: 3469 Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Hiya, Most likely, they are all the same (given the same octane which should be posted at the pump) but as North of 8 stated, it is more likely listed differently to separate non-ethanol 87 octane and the higher non-ethanol 91 octane. And yes...they will charge a premium for non-ethanol fuel regardless as it is more expensive to produce than than ethanol blended fuels as it is cheaper to refine corn into alcohol than it is to refine oil into it's different components. The higher the octane, the more expensive it gets.... Steve Edited by VMS 2/20/2019 9:55 PM | ||
| ArtieT |
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Posts: 21 | North of 8 - 2/20/2019 9:19 PM ArtieT - 2/20/2019 8:52 PM I understand there’s a difference between ethanol and non ethanol gas, but I was curious of the different labeling of “rec gas”, “ethanol free”, and “no alcohol” gas? They all seem to be non ethanol. Is one better or worse than the other? Locally, what I have noticed is the place selling "rec gas, ethanol free" is that it is 91 octane, a little higher octane than the place selling "non-ethanol" at 87 octane. Don't know if that means anything, just what I observed. That makes sense. I didn't notice the octane differences. I was filling up a quad, so I'd assume both 87 or 91 octane would be fine. | ||
| ArtieT |
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Posts: 21 | VMS - 2/20/2019 9:52 PM Hiya, Most likely, they are all the same (given the same octane which should be posted at the pump) but as North of 8 stated, it is more likely listed differently to separate non-ethanol 87 octane and the higher non-ethanol 91 octane. And yes...they will charge a premium for non-ethanol fuel regardless as it is more expensive to produce than than ethanol blended fuels as it is cheaper to refine corn into alcohol than it is to refine oil into it's different components. The higher the octane, the more expensive it gets.... Steve When I was in Michigan two weeks ago, BP Rec Fuel was $4.75/gal. Casey's "non alcohol" was $3.02. That's a big difference when filling 30 or more gallons. | ||
| VMS |
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Posts: 3469 Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Hiya, The only thing I could possibly think of why such a huge difference in price is maybe the rec fuel is a 2 stroke mixture? I have seen this at gas stations in northern Minnesota before but it was always listed as 2-stroke Outboard fuel so it wouldn't be mixed up... steve | ||
| BNelson |
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Location: Contrarian Island | I have run regular 87 in all my boats, atvs, etc.. if you use your motor often and put some marine stabil in it here and there and store it properly no reason not to run 87. In small motors I think non ethanol is more important like an ice auger or chain saw etc.. | ||
| sworrall |
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Posts: 32784 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Actually, ethanol is an octane booster. Gasoline today has an average shelf life of a few weeks before beginning to break down, and that includes ethanol free fuel. It's not blended like fuel used to be. There are literally dozens of caustic, nasty chemical added to get by the EPA regs and hit the necessary octane ratings. One of those chemicals actually is used as a solvent and can dissolve rubber. No matter which fuel you choose, if it;s going to be in the tank for a month or more, stabilize it. You are doing nothing because of or to ethanol, that actually helps, not hurts, the life of gasoline. Ethanol blends at e10 level are perfect for small engines, all of them, and all these days are made to run e10. | ||
| undersized |
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Posts: 93 | It's not quite so simple as "don't worry about it, everything is fine." For example, the Kwik Trips in my area have switched their 87 and 89 octane almost exlusively to e15. The 91 octane they have is straight gas. So...no option for e10. And my newer outboard is specifically labelled not to use e15. That means the only option at the majority of gas stations near me is pure gas at a premium rate. | ||
| VMS |
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Posts: 3469 Location: Elk River, Minnesota | There is an option for E10 if you choose from Quicktrip given all of them are using either E15 or non-oxy fuel. All you need is a 2/3 E15 and 1/3 pure, So for every 3 gallons, you would need 2 gallons of E15 and 1 gallon of non-oxy. When buying fuel, just keep to 3 gallon increments and you can get it done quite easily. I wouldn't expect anyone to actually do this though...  Steve Edited by VMS 2/21/2019 5:08 PM | ||
| horsehunter |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | VMS - 2/21/2019 6:07 PM There is an option for E10 if you choose from Quicktrip given all of them are using either E15 or non-oxy fuel. All you need is a 2/3 E15 and 1/3 pure, So for every 3 gallons, you would need 2 gallons of E15 and 1 gallon of non-oxy. When buying fuel, just keep to 3 gallon increments and you can get it done quite easily. I wouldn't expect anyone to actually do this though... Steve Only from the math teacher. I hope Steve's not too disappointed to hear that i made it through another day without algebra and the only geometry I use is on a snooker table.  Edited by horsehunter 2/21/2019 5:48 PM | ||
| VMS |
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Posts: 3469 Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Hahaha!! | ||
| undersized |
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Posts: 93 | When buying fuel, just keep to 3 gallon increments and you can get it done quite easily. Or maybe I just won't use ethanol in my boat. | ||
| VMS |
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Posts: 3469 Location: Elk River, Minnesota | out goes the air.... Edited by VMS 2/22/2019 9:05 AM Attachments ----------------  th.jpg (20KB - 416 downloads) | ||
| Jerry Newman |
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Location: 31 | ArtieT - 2/19/2019 8:06 AM Is ethanol free, recreational fuel, and non-alcohol gas all the same? I've seen all three and it seems like recreational fuel is usually the most expensive. They are not the same... Whenever possible (which is almost “always”) I happily seek out and pay the extra for ethanol free gas in my boat. I consider this to be a fairly inexpensive safeguard, along with using the manufacturers recommended additives. To each their own… Yamaha does not say not to use it... but they also say this in their maintenance matters brochure: Ethanol is alcohol, and alcohol is “hygroscopic,” which means it attracts water molecules. Since nearly all boat fuel tanks are vented to the atmosphere, water can (and will) collect in your fuel. When the concentration of water molecules in your fuel tank reaches just ½ of 1%, the water molecules will bond with the alcohol and sink to the bottom, where your fuel pick up is. Depending on the amount of water ingested into your outboard, this can result in everything from running problems to catastrophic damage. Ethanol, being alcohol, is also a powerful solvent that can loosen debris in your fuel tank and all the tanks and lines it was in before it got to you. http://maintenance.yamahaoutboards.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/M... Edited by Jerry Newman 2/22/2019 10:23 AM | ||
| VMS |
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Posts: 3469 Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Hiya, This is why so many boats today have a water/fuel separator filter installed on them to deal with just such an issue. I, myself have never had this issue in some 15 years of running a fuel-water separator on my rigs. In the fall, I dump out the fuel in the filter, let it sit for a while and see...and I have yet to see any water in my fuel. I think there are regions within the US where this might be more prevalent, but up here in MN, I have not seen or experienced enough of a humidity change over a long period of time to allow that much water to develop in my fuel system. I still feel it all comes down to two major things: Proper storage (stabilization of fuel) and maintenance (filter replacement), and your engine will last a long long time without issue. Steve Edited by VMS 2/22/2019 12:02 PM | ||
| sworrall |
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Posts: 32784 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | 'Ethanol is alcohol, and alcohol is “hygroscopic,” which means it attracts water molecules. Since nearly all boat fuel tanks are vented to the atmosphere, water can (and will) collect in your fuel. When the concentration of water molecules in your fuel tank reaches just ½ of 1%, the water molecules will bond with the alcohol and sink to the bottom, where your fuel pick up is. Depending on the amount of water ingested into your outboard, this can result in everything from running problems to catastrophic damage. Ethanol, being alcohol, is also a powerful solvent that can loosen debris in your fuel tank and all the tanks and lines it was in before it got to you. ' There is no way ethanol can phase separate in the fuel unless water is introduced through the system by leak or or evaporation, in which case you have a fuel system issue or are storing your ride in a very humid location for long periods of time. Additives do nothing to the ethanol in any way, they stabilize gasoline formulated to last a couple weeks before breaking down. Additives that absorb water and a sold as 'fixing ethanol problems' are, in fact, alcohol also. Makes no sense at all...but most people do not think that through. Today's gasoline is formulated with several powerful and poisonous solvents, one that will actually dissolve rubber. Ethanol at the e10 level would only present a problem if the fuel system is incredibly dirty and had never been run with ethanol. In that case, where did the deposits come from? How is that possible if ethanol free gasoline runs, stores, and ages without issues, and as advertised on the pumps, 'drives your engine clean'? What was posted is basically propaganda, just follow the money from big oil to the NMMA to manufacturers...etc. They led a misinformation campaign over the new Unleaded 88 which basically stated the objection to allowing the blend is Americans are too stupid to read. The water separator and any water in your fuel tank has to do with condensation and extended storage with a vented fuel system in wet conditions. With or without the ethanol, the water will be there if it's introduced. WITH ethanol, much of that amount is absorbed and burned off harmlessly. Without, it's there, and at the fuel pick up. That, at least, is truth. Ethanol needs no stabilization. Think about it, leave a quart of gasoline in one container, and a quart of corn whiskey in another. See which one goes bad. I travel the US and have never seen a gas station yet where e10 is not for sale. The 15% blend is called Unleaded 88, in association with the octane rating. All but very old outboards will run e10 very well, and all engines of recent manufacture are designed to. Another consideration, since motorists will not by ethanol free fuel much; that fuel will sit in a tank for an extended period. Note all the additives ADVERTISED by oil companies as solvents and cleaners in the gasoline they sell. Yet they rail against ethanol. There's your sign. 10% of the market is billions. Follow the money, and check out the Oklahoma State studies and many others done independently. e10 is the perfect fuel for your boat. | ||
| patcampbell |
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Posts: 32 Location: West Bend WI | What I do observe is the residue in my carbureted engines float bowls and carb body passages when corn gas is used. I do not have this residue when using non-ethanol gas. Same fuel tanks, hoses, and so forth. Given these engines are all older (before the ethanol fuels were mandated to create a new tax generating commodity market) I'll continue to use ethanol free fuel. I do experience improved mileage and throttle response from real gas too. | ||
| VMS |
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Posts: 3469 Location: Elk River, Minnesota | patcampbell - 2/22/2019 7:35 PM What I do observe is the residue in my carbureted engines float bowls and carb body passages when corn gas is used. I do not have this residue when using non-ethanol gas. Same fuel tanks, hoses, and so forth. Given these engines are all older (before the ethanol fuels were mandated to create a new tax generating commodity market) I'll continue to use ethanol free fuel. I do experience improved mileage and throttle response from real gas too. Hiya, I would bet most likely, that residue you see is from the ethanol loosening gum, etc. in your tank, that is then getting run through your engine. Even if you empty your tank completely, there is fuel residue that remains, and it will eventually build up in your tank. Steve | ||
| sworrall |
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Posts: 32784 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | patcampbell - 2/22/2019 7:35 PM What I do observe is the residue in my carbureted engines float bowls and carb body passages when corn gas is used. I do not have this residue when using non-ethanol gas. Same fuel tanks, hoses, and so forth. Given these engines are all older (before the ethanol fuels were mandated to create a new tax generating commodity market) I'll continue to use ethanol free fuel. I do experience improved mileage and throttle response from real gas too. Obviously, engines built before ethanol are not designed to use e10 and that was stated above. The residue you see is probably gunk the ethanol is cleaning out. There's no appreciable difference in today's fuels in fuel line deterioration between e10 and non enriched fuels. (Oklahoma State study et al) Line soaked in both fuels behaved the same. 'Real gas' as we had it when your engine was built is no longer available, not even close. | ||
| Jerry Newman |
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Location: 31 | Almost everything in this world has an answer that lies somewhere in between and therefore subject to interpretation, IMHO there is not a 100% right/wrong e10 vs ethanol free answer for our OB motors here. At pretty much opposite ends of the spectrum you have a guy like me who has had many fuel and fuel system related problems (including catastrophic failures), and a guy like VMS who apparently has never really had any serious issues. I thought SteveW put forth a very convincing argument. However, he chooses to believe Oklahoma States position, while I choose to follow Yamaha's guidance. No problem there but I also don't feel comfortable with “looking for signs” or “following the money” as a basis to help make decisions when it comes to something as important and expensive as my outboard motors. “There is no way ethanol can phase separate in the fuel unless water is introduced through the system by leak or evaporation, in which case you have a fuel system issue or are storing your ride in a very humid location for long periods of time.” Is the second 1/2 of this quote true or false? I happen to live in an area that at times can be incredibly humid, I also store and of course operate my boat in a humid/wet environment. My boat can (and does) sit in this same humid environment for months at a time. Now, I don't like spending money that's not necessary any more than the next guy, but just the fact that ethanol attracts water and I've had so many bad experiences with fuel problems looms very large for me. Some other contributing factors that have helped me to make this decision are that Yamaha recommends a minimum octane rating of 89 and the 91 ethanol free premium is closely priced, and readily available at high turnover locations for me. | ||
| VMS |
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Posts: 3469 Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Hi Jerry, You and I both know we have seen the conversation of what fuel is best to use many many many times over on this site and on many others. I will admit, I have been very very fortunate with the outboards in my family with the only issues coming up with my father's older 1985 mercury 50hp he had. He'd use it for a big trip right after school was out, but then the boat would sit until fall...no stabilization to the fuel, so he had multiple trips to the repair shop to rebuild carbs. What is goofy is years before, he would always run the fuel out of his engines before pulling them after a trip, and never had an issue. His 1973 20hp has only been rebuilt one time, and the only other issue with that motor was in 1983 when he had to send it in for new points. I follow this procedure for my carbed kicker motor and it runs really well. My main motor, though, I stabilize the fuel for the last tank of the season and then when I store the motor, it's all set to go. I've been doing that for the last 20 years with no issue up to this point and I just changed over from a carbed main motor last year. I really think the key issue is proper maintenance of our engines... I run both 87 and 91 octane at times...many times run 91 because I like how the engine runs on it...it just runs smoother because the fuel is just that less volatile than 87 octane and even though I may not notice any HP difference, I do understand it has a better output than the E10. That is definitely not a knock against 87 E10 octane as I usually will run that on a trip because in a week I'll burn through 80 - 100 gallons of fuel and that can be a significant savings on the trip. I do feel that everyone makes their decisions based on personal experiences and your's is unique to you as are mine to me. I would never say one is wrong or right...it's just what we have had to deal with and we adjust what we do accordingly. And I do think you are right...it's all somewhere in the middle and we can find arguments in both directions which are most likely biased for a reason to lead us one way or another...that is the power of statistics...You can get statistics to pretty much say anything you want regardless of how objective the tests might be. I think the biggest issue overall is proper maintenance and with it....the engines usually will not have issues. Now and again, I think we all can run into a bad batch of fuel from a station for whatever reason, and no doubt it can be very costly, and no way to tie it to a particular station, and it can definitely affect our decisions going forward. So long as our engines don't sit for a long long time, things "should" be good to go, but if it sits any longer, I will stabilize regardless if people say I would need to or not. I do it for peace of mind, and if that is what it takes for me to feel positive for my engines to stay in top running condition, I'll do it. I think the small fee for a little stabil or seafoam is well worth it rather than a costly tear down and rebuild of a fuel system. A good filter system (including fuel water separation), stabilization as one sees fit, and just overall using our motors consistently are the key elements to keeping things running well.. All my opinion, though going off of my own personal experiences. Steve | ||
| sworrall |
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Posts: 32784 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Jerry Newman - 2/24/2019 3:23 PM Almost everything in this world has an answer that lies somewhere in between and therefore subject to interpretation, IMHO there is not a 100% right/wrong e10 vs ethanol free answer for our OB motors here. At pretty much opposite ends of the spectrum you have a guy like me who has had many fuel and fuel system related problems (including catastrophic failures), and a guy like VMS who apparently has never really had any serious issues. I thought SteveW put forth a very convincing argument. However, he chooses to believe Oklahoma States position, while I choose to follow Yamaha's guidance. No problem there but I also don't feel comfortable with “looking for signs” or “following the money” as a basis to help make decisions when it comes to something as important and expensive as my outboard motors. “There is no way ethanol can phase separate in the fuel unless water is introduced through the system by leak or evaporation, in which case you have a fuel system issue or are storing your ride in a very humid location for long periods of time.” Is the second 1/2 of this quote true or false? I happen to live in an area that at times can be incredibly humid, I also store and of course operate my boat in a humid/wet environment. My boat can (and does) sit in this same humid environment for months at a time. Now, I don't like spending money that's not necessary any more than the next guy, but just the fact that ethanol attracts water and I've had so many bad experiences with fuel problems looms very large for me. Some other contributing factors that have helped me to make this decision are that Yamaha recommends a minimum octane rating of 89 and the 91 ethanol free premium is closely priced, and readily available at high turnover locations for me.
I was really waiting for that to come. Where will the water go that enters your system from condensation or fuel system error using non ethanol fuel? Same place, bottom of the tank, and then right into your fuel line, only 100% will be ingested by your engine W/O a fuel/water separator. Once again, it's scientifically impossible for ethanol to phase separate on it's own, a significant amount of water needs to be introduced. If water occurs in a fuel system using ethanol enriched fuel, it's from tank condensation or a fuel system issue, not ethanol. And if additives are used to keep water out of the tank, all you are doing is adding the very 'fix' you are worried about.
We interviewed a mechanic in a highly respected Ranger BPS dealership in the South where boats are operated 12 months out of the year. He had, over a couple decades, not seen ANY engine problems created by e10 in engines designed to run the fuel.
The problem is folks do not understand what happened to their 'grandpa's gasoline' today.
Study what's actually IN that non-oxygenated fuel and you will be shocked what it takes to get that octane rating up there W/O ethanol, and what each of the chemicals used can do to your engine's hoses, etc. It ain't just refined petro, not by a long shot. Educate one's self in detail, and one finds that the 'warnings' regarding e10 in later model outboard engines are not based in fact, and actually support an entire industry manufacturing bottles labeled with 'fixes ethanol problems'... ripping off uninformed consumers. Also, make sure you stabilize any non ethanol fuel or ethanol enhanced fuel to be stored in your boat gas tank for long periods of time for the reasons already stated. Run what one wishes to run, but the simple fact is e10 is approved for use in every outboard built for US use that is powered by gasoline. In some states, e10 is mandated. No engine company in it's right capitalistic mind will want to lose those sales building an engine that won't efficiently run e10. Remember the old stickers during the changeover to e10, 'This Engine Not to be sold in California'? Don't see those on any engine crate these days. As 4 stroke outboard engines take more and more market share, the argument becomes nothing more than how long unstabilized EPA approved fuel will last before beginning to break down and what to do about it. That's where the argument actually is today. | ||
| VMS |
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Posts: 3469 Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Hiya, Doing a quick search, E10 can hold up to .5% water (the alcohol absorbs it up to .5%). This would mean a gallon of E10 can hold .005 gal of water, or about .64 ounces of water (a touch over a tablespoon). On a 10 gallon tank, this would be 6.4 ounces of water which to give some perspective to it, is just under one cup of water, or a touch over 4 shot glasses full of water. To be honest...that is a LOT of water being absorbed. Anything above the .5% and the fuel will show separation as the alcohol bonds better with water than it does with gasoline, and will continue to absorb water. But...this is a lot of water....a LOT Not going to make any argument one way or another, but i would think even in the most extreme situation of humidity, gaining an ounce of water in a tank that holds even 6 gallons will not be affected as it is run through the engine... I will continue to run both, but I do think after some more research that going E10 might be the safest method as 91 octane can and may very well sit for a long period of time in a tank...and...I would assume the pick up line for the pump at the station is drawing from the bottom of the tank as well, where if the fuel sits for a long period of time could get quite a few contaminants in it...water included. Thus...being pumped right into your own tank. Something to maybe think about a bit... Steve Edited by VMS 2/25/2019 4:06 PM | ||
| sworrall |
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Posts: 32784 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Water has to get in there first. Ethanol won't cause the water to appear or 'attract' water into the fuel, that's propaganda. It has to be introduced somewhere. If introduced: Unlike regular gasoline, which can absorb almost no moisture, E-10 can hold up to ½ percent of water by volume, and the water molecules will dissolve in the fuel. The solubilized water will bypass a water separator and burn harmlessly through the engine. One needs to consider how much 'humidity' can even get to the tank though the vent and how much surface area in the tank is exposed to condensation, if any. When storing your boat, the tank should be full, not near empty as some claim. Condensation and gasoline breakdown is your enemy over time, not ethanol. Ethanol is hygroscopic, which means if water molecules contact the ethanol molecule, it will be absorbed by the ethanol, but it is in no way attracting the water. https://www.theautochannel.com/news/2016/03/18/209988-ethanol-does-n... Again, ethanol can't phase separate on it's own and only will if more water than can be absorbed is introduced. That, as you stated is a LOT of water and is not likely at all. Without the ethanol, almost all water introduced will end up at the bottom of the tank. Most fuel based performance issues are caused by gasoline breaking down as it ages, and it isn't ethanol causing that. There are as many as 108 other additives to gasoline regardless if it's ethanol enriched or not. Crib to death on a gallon of gas here is about two weeks if I remember correctly, ask your favorite gas station cash register attendant how often each tank gets filled up. Oil companies refine what we call gasoline today accordingly. Millions of vehicles run flawlessly on e10 every day of every year around the globe. | ||
| VMS |
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Posts: 3469 Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Thinking of condensation.... I would tend to think that would be awfully hard to obtain in a fuel tank in humid conditions even, unless like Steve Worrall stated being introduced somehow... My mind wanders here and there as I get older and I started thinking of where condensation forms on a window in winter or on a glass of cold water. It forms on the warm side of the glass.... So...for this to occur inside of a fuel tank the tank would have to be the warmer environment than the surrounding air on the outside...And....as Steve Worrall stated, the tank would not be full for this to occur.....And...the temperature and humidity change from one environment to the other would have to be extreme... Most of our bigger rigs out there have a tank that is below decking of some sort, so it will stay cooler than the air surrounding it (up to a point I am sure...) which in most cases means the tank interior will always be the cooler than the surrounding air. There's a lot of heat needed to warm up all of the fuel contained in an interior tank of a boat, then somehow expose that tank to a cold environment to where condensation could form. This is also why I suspect they put our fuel reservoirs under the ground at gas stations beyond being safer for spills, etc. The ground is a very stable temperature after the first foot or so, and most tanks I would bet are below any sort of frost line, thus, the tank stays at a constant temperature. The ground cannot heat up very fast, so things stay consistent... Water would have to be introduced to the tank for water to get in. On an external 6 gallon tank this could definitely go the the other way given a full day of sun on the water and then putting the tank in a cold garage..but again, that would have to be a very very major difference in temperature for that to happen. Think about it...for those of you who wear glasses, how often is it that when you walk INSIDE of a building your glasses fog up? Steve Edited by VMS 2/26/2019 8:12 AM | ||
| Jerry Newman |
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Location: 31 | This has definitely been the best and most informative e10 versus ethanol free thread for me… I learned some new things. I made an error in wording when I said that ethanol can “attract” water. Hopefully we can agree that water in fuel is not a good thing, and the millions of vehicles that run flawlessly on e10 every day "might not" be as relevant as this would imply for our boats that sit for months at a time. Will that said: I like Steve's idea on asking the gas station attendant how often they refill their storage tanks. I also thought that VMS made some excellent points on temperature condensation, as well as one of the reasons why fuel is stored underground. IMHO, although the underground tanks are supposed to be 100% sealed, as are the trucks that deliver them… these are also controlled by mistake prone humans. Regarding additives; for the most part I only use the Yamaha RingFree to help reduce carbon buildup, and do not use any other additives on a regular basis. Although it was originally developed for marine 2 cycle engines, it's supposed to still do an excellent job of de-bonding carbon deposits in the 4 strokes too (carbon buildup is much different in outboards than automobiles due to the difference in combustion temperatures). Anyway, other than possibly being brainwashed by Yamaha, I still think that this RingFree stuff is beneficial for both motors, especially for the 15hp which is almost exclusively run in the mid-level RPM range while trolling. For the record; I'm definitely more fearful of getting a bad load of gas than having the e10 retain water from humidity now. However, I'm still going to be targeting newer gas stations that have a high turnover rate and the non-ethanol premium, with a preference for the 93 octane rating to help combat the loss of octane and damaging effects extended periods of non-use can have. Edited by Jerry Newman 3/1/2019 5:36 PM | ||
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