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Muskie Fishing -> Muskie Boats and Motors -> Has anyone used or have the 70hp Yamaha
 
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Message Subject: Has anyone used or have the 70hp Yamaha
Nomadmusky
Posted 2/5/2019 1:16 PM (#930103)
Subject: Has anyone used or have the 70hp Yamaha




Posts: 176


I'm asking because it is much lighter (253lbs) than the other motors in it's "sub 90hp" class.

I currently am running an older 75hp (1990) Mercury on my Newly rebuilt Tuffy Esox LTD. I like it and it works great, but, I rebuilt my boat and now I want a new motor.

It's hard to make this change because my existing motor is bullet proof and I've always babied it. That being said, it isn't a 4 stroke, it has that blue smoke that is noticeable when trolling with the breeze, uses more gas than the new 4 stroke will, is too loud for a phone call. (I'd like to work more from my boat, ie phone calls, etc..), and vanity wanting a new motor.

Here is what I've looked at: All motors 70- 90 hp because 90hp is my Max rating. Here is what I found: Mercury, Yamaha, Honda, Suzuki 75's-90 hp motors all weight in around 360 pounds. My current motor weights 299lbs. I'd be adding about 60 lbs for any of those options. One of the things I found I don't need this summer is top speed....I thought I did, but after the last full season, I realize I don't need it as one of my top 5 reasons.

Yes I looked at the Evinrude as well and that motor in a 75-90 is about 320lb.

I've settled on the 70hp Yamaha for these reasons: ,
1. weights only 253 lbs, vs mid 300's for most 75-90hp motors
2. similar in actual hp to my existing 29 year old 75 hp motor, especially with motors now being rated at the prop rather than back then at the head. My current motor does a great job running my boat by myself or loaded for a week with one or two others in Canada for a week.
3. quiet and very little vibration compared to other motors.
4. Fuel efficient, excess of 8 mpg at my cruising speed
5. trolling feature adjusting down to 50 rpm.

Top speed variance although not known: currently I top out at about 38, cruise at about 30. I assume that would be similar with the Yamaha F70. I'm guessing that I'd up my top speed to about 43 with a 90 on the back, cruising at plane about the same.

What am I missing? Any input or experience from anyone out there?

Thanks,

Kevin







Edited by Nomadmusky 2/5/2019 2:09 PM
VMS
Posted 2/5/2019 1:37 PM (#930106 - in reply to #930103)
Subject: Re: Has anyone used or have the 70hp Yamaha





Posts: 3467


Location: Elk River, Minnesota
Hiya,
Are you looking 4 stroke or 2 stroke? (Assuming 4 as the carbed 2 strokes are pretty much out of manufacture except I think Evinrude still makes their super reliable 2 stroke 15 hp)

Thanks

Steve
Nomadmusky
Posted 2/5/2019 2:01 PM (#930109 - in reply to #930106)
Subject: Re: Has anyone used or have the 70hp Yamaha




Posts: 176


@VMS,

I'm primarily looking at a 4 stroke, although I'm more concerned about: weight, fuel efficiency, quietness, minimal vibration, trolling control, no blue smoke to breath while fishing, performance close to what I have now, and reliability.

I know the Evinrude is out there in a very efficient 2 stroke, but I don't know anyone who has used any of the smaller ones ie. 70-90hp like I will be using them and I don't want to hang a second motor on for a kicker.

Kevin

Edited by Nomadmusky 2/5/2019 2:04 PM
VMS
Posted 2/6/2019 8:00 AM (#930161 - in reply to #930103)
Subject: Re: Has anyone used or have the 70hp Yamaha





Posts: 3467


Location: Elk River, Minnesota
Got it!!

From what I can NOW tell from your edited original post after my first inquiry back to you about going 2 stroke or 4 stroke (as it was not specified in the original post before editing) it sounds like your decision is made...

Where you will notice the big difference between your original mercury 75 and the yamaha 70 will be low end grunt. Your boat will not come up on plane as fast due to the 4 stroke design.

Smoothness will be no issue. It'll be quiet and will troll down nicely.




Steve

Edited by VMS 2/6/2019 8:35 AM
Nomadmusky
Posted 2/6/2019 8:39 AM (#930169 - in reply to #930161)
Subject: Re: Has anyone used or have the 70hp Yamaha




Posts: 176


@VMS

thanks.
Pat Hoolihan
Posted 2/6/2019 9:54 AM (#930177 - in reply to #930103)
Subject: Re: Has anyone used or have the 70hp Yamaha




Posts: 386


My dad runs the 70 on his Aumacraft 165 competitor and I run the 90 on my Warrior 1890. I personally think the 70 would be plenty of engine for you but only you can decide that. PM me if you have any specific questions. I'll add the disclaimer that if you're thinking about hydraulic steering I believe a 75 is the minimum for Yamaha.

Edited by Pat Hoolihan 2/6/2019 3:30 PM
jasond
Posted 2/6/2019 2:50 PM (#930192 - in reply to #930177)
Subject: Re: Has anyone used or have the 70hp Yamaha




Posts: 187


Location: West Metro, MN
My Dad put a new 75hp Etec on his 1995 Lund Pro V tiller 2 years ago and is really happy with it. I wouldn't discount looking at the 75 Etec.
rocko
Posted 2/6/2019 9:28 PM (#930224 - in reply to #930103)
Subject: Re: Has anyone used or have the 70hp Yamaha




Posts: 48


I put the Yamaha 70 tiller on my 18 ft Lund Alaskan 2 years ago. Prey much went through the same research you are. It's a great motor in every way. Smooth, quiet, efficient and reliable. It does,not have the same juice as a 75 but you won't need it for an Esox. Friend of mine has the same boat, but a 75 Merc 4 stroke. He can move along in the upper 30 mph range vs my lower 30's, for comparison. The price point of the 70'was significantly lower than any of the 75's, if that is a factor. It gets me up on plane, fullly loaded, with no problem. I went with the reduced weight and size and wanted a four stroke for the quiet running and fuel efficiency. Can't imagine you won't enjoy this motor.
NathanH
Posted 2/7/2019 6:13 AM (#930229 - in reply to #930177)
Subject: Re: Has anyone used or have the 70hp Yamaha





Posts: 859


Location: MN
.

Edited by NathanH 2/7/2019 6:14 AM
Smell_Esox
Posted 2/7/2019 7:54 AM (#930236 - in reply to #930103)
Subject: Re: Has anyone used or have the 70hp Yamaha




Posts: 267


I'd go with a 90. You'll never regret it.
Nomadmusky
Posted 2/7/2019 8:09 AM (#930239 - in reply to #930224)
Subject: Re: Has anyone used or have the 70hp Yamaha




Posts: 176


@ rocko

Thanks for your input, you do bring up a good point about not having the same juice as a current 75hp, I'm wondering how it compares to a 29 year old 75 two stroke. There are no real good ways to find a chart to compare that.

Nomad
Nomadmusky
Posted 2/7/2019 8:13 AM (#930240 - in reply to #930192)
Subject: Re: Has anyone used or have the 70hp Yamaha




Posts: 176


@Jasond,

I haven't discounted it, although I have been scared off by some of the history of the repair issues of the Etec. I know they appear to have that addressed in the more current years. The biggest issue I have is that I just don't see them on the water in the circles I fish in that size so I'm not sure how they troll down, how quiet they are, how fuel efficient they are, I know they are quick for their size, I don't know how they "smoke" or don't smoke when trolling with the wind etc...

Thank you,

Nomad
Nomadmusky
Posted 2/7/2019 8:42 AM (#930242 - in reply to #930236)
Subject: Re: Has anyone used or have the 70hp Yamaha




Posts: 176


@Smell Esox

I'm rated for a 90hp, so I know that in most cases I'd always go with a max rated motor.

The big hang up in my mind is the massive size difference. I was at the Chicago Muskie show and there just happened to be two boats back to back, one with a F70 Yamaha, and another with a beautiful 90hp Merc. At the time they were the top two motors in my search, although I hadn't and still haven't ruled anything out.

The size difference of those two motors was massive! It wasn't incremental, the F70 is on the same chassis as their 50-60-and 70 in that class, whereas the 90 Merc is in the same family as the 75-90-115. So to simplify it, it looked like comparing the size of a 50 to a 115! I took two buddy's by to show them and the proportions were amazing.

Back in the day that the Tuffy Esox, (remember mine isn't the wider magnum) was built I know it could handle the horsepower, and after rebuilding mine last summer I know mine could handle it. I've heard stories of people hanging 120's on them in the old days, but the weight of the modern motors has increased dramatically and putting that weight on the back of your boat is like putting the big kid on the end of a teeter totter back in the old school yard, it's hard to overcome.

Maybe I'm overthinking it, but I have time to make the best decision, because I tend to keep my fishing things for a long period of time and will be living with it.

Nomad.
14ledo81
Posted 2/7/2019 9:08 AM (#930246 - in reply to #930103)
Subject: Re: Has anyone used or have the 70hp Yamaha





Posts: 4269


Location: Ashland WI
I ran an older esox ltd with a 91 40 hp Johnson. That got me on plane and ran upper 20's by myself. 2 guys was closer to 26. I would think a newer 70 would be more than enough for that hull.
VMS
Posted 2/7/2019 9:50 AM (#930248 - in reply to #930103)
Subject: Re: Has anyone used or have the 70hp Yamaha





Posts: 3467


Location: Elk River, Minnesota
Nomad,

I think your consideration with the weight is a good consideration to have. I am assuming your boat is a 1990 as well or is it much newer than that?

If my assumption is correct in that it is a 1990 model, the boat may not be able to handle the extra weight...not because of the power or too much weight on the transom...those are built to take on much more than what we put on there...but for level floatation. If memory serves me correctly, the USCG clears the HP and weight capacities of the rig so that it sits with level floatation in the water... along with safety on HP. So...going to a 90hp as you are thinking may not be the best situation as your boat would most likely "squat" significantly in the water. This becomes a bigger issue if you are in following seas....easier to swamp the boat, and that is a huge safety concern. Your old motor weighs just a touch more than the 70 yamaha so weight wise, that is a wash essentially...

The 4 stroke 70 yamaha as compared to your 1990 mercury will be rated in the same manner (70hp and 75hp at the prop) as I believe that particular rating started in the mid-late 80's. So...that is the closest you will get for comparison. The 70 will be slower out of the hole, will run very smooth and will definitely troll down better than your old 75, and you won't gum up spark plugs as no oil mixture is being used. The boat will sit a level because you are going down in weight, but it will if you went with a 90.

As for the Etec, the original designs, up and through around 2007 or so did have problems as it was essentially a redesign of the FICHT ram injection system. It has been a good 10 years since those issues were happening, and the bugs have been worked out. The efficiency of the etec motor will be just as good, if not better than some of the 4 strokes out there, and they troll down very very well... Absolutely a minimum of any sort of smoke...you won't be filled with smoke in your eyes and nose if you are backtrolling. At idle, it'll be maybe a touch louder than a 4 stroke in the same HP, but where you will find the main difference is in your low end power. With my etec, I can have a nice conversation with anyone in the boat without having to speak louder than my normal voice. It's that quiet.... The warranty you get with the etec is outstanding, the maintenance and winter storage of the engine is about a 3 minute process (all done electronically), and...you get the quicker response of a 2 stroke. Size wise, it will look good on your rig and not seem like a monstrosity back there which is what some 4 strokes look like on the back of some boats. The etec 75 or 90 are built on the same powerhead, so the 75 is a detuned engine, while the 90 is a full capacity engine (so to speak) so they can sell at different price points. They both weight in a 320 pounds so you are not increasing by a huge amount (55 pounds), which is really minimal as well. That is roughly the weight of a deep cycle battery. The beauty of going etec, is you can max out if you want, and you will get a rig that really will perform well for heavier weights in the boat (friends and their gear). Even if you go with the etec 75, you will get much better results overall.

2 stroke by design will have a much stronger power curve in the lower rpm range, and is great when you need to get up on plane quickly for whatever reason you might have.

I feel you have your mind made up with the yamaha, but if you do decide to take a closer look at etec, I think you might find it is a great design, and if you get more responses about etecs (and you are open to that option), you might be really happy going in that direction.

No matter what you choose, you will have a good motor...both are solid!!

Steve

Steve

Edited by VMS 2/7/2019 11:58 AM
VMS
Posted 2/7/2019 9:59 AM (#930249 - in reply to #930103)
Subject: Re: Has anyone used or have the 70hp Yamaha





Posts: 3467


Location: Elk River, Minnesota
Here is how quiet the etec is out of the water

https://youtu.be/3VW--wnSd6E

Etec idling in water...notice there is no smoke...

https://youtu.be/_J3gxM1xdLo

Here is how a yamaha 70 sounds out of the water

https://youtu.be/Wp_7R4gxS78

Edited by VMS 2/7/2019 10:12 AM
Nomadmusky
Posted 2/7/2019 2:43 PM (#930266 - in reply to #930103)
Subject: Re: Has anyone used or have the 70hp Yamaha




Posts: 176


@VMS,

That is some really good information. Yes my boat is a 1990, it was a Bass'n Marauder and when I rebuilt it, with the same floor plan I now have labeled it an Esox LTD, which as I understand is the same floorplan as well.

You are right about the "squat" with extra weight. I know when I back it off the trailor with the wind pushing into the landing I can take water over the back. It can handle the waves under power, but the realization of following seas or even being level at rest is a concern. My goal is to have the least amount of weight back there as possible without giving up any performance issues.

You make some great points on the ETEC. I would go with the 90 if I were to go that direction because they are literally the same weight, and I do appreciate the Youtube sound comparisons, and views of the lack of smoke on the motors, that was very helpful. I know the boat would be quicker out of the hole and have a higher top end speed, by as much as 7-8 mph's from the 70 to the 90, which I would almost never use, but I still smile at the thought.

I may have to study that a little more. I will have to look at the physical size as well as the weight, the motors today seem so huge.


Nomad
39 degrees
Posted 2/8/2019 1:14 PM (#930323 - in reply to #930103)
Subject: Re: Has anyone used or have the 70hp Yamaha




Posts: 102


In the original post it states down to 50 rpm. If the 70 is like my yamaha 60, the rpms can be adjusted to decrease in 50 rpm increments, but not down to 50 rpm. I think the lowest rpm my 60 is roughly 550 to 600. The 60 has been great motor for me.
Nomadmusky
Posted 2/9/2019 8:18 AM (#930370 - in reply to #930323)
Subject: Re: Has anyone used or have the 70hp Yamaha




Posts: 176


@ 39 degrees,

What I was referring to was 50 rpm increments. Thanks for the correction. And thanks for the input on the F60, I know they are basically the same motor or at least in the same family.

Nomad
39 degrees
Posted 2/9/2019 10:47 AM (#930386 - in reply to #930103)
Subject: Re: Has anyone used or have the 70hp Yamaha




Posts: 102


I have two buddies, along with me, who also have the yamaha 60. Not one problem between the three motors. They have all run flawlessly.
Smell_Esox
Posted 2/12/2019 8:26 AM (#930592 - in reply to #930103)
Subject: Re: Has anyone used or have the 70hp Yamaha




Posts: 267


I would love to throw a 70 Yamaha on my 17 foot Lund. I have a 60 hp 2 stroke Mariner on there now and would love the 70 on there. But it maxes at 60 so I'm probably screwed. Can I order a 70 with a 60 hood? ;^D
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