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Posts: 1126
Location: Minnesota. | Lunger50 - 9/22/2017 4:26 PM
My experience, and I fish topwaters a lot...speeding them up rarely if ever gets them to go again, or gets them to go when following.
If a fish misses a bait I usually slow it down a bit, and change the direction by moving my rod to one side, then slowly to the other. If it doesn't hit or follow on that cast, I immediately throw a weagle or phantom, right back to the spot and dance it in place.
If they are continuously missing prop baits you're moving it too fast.
Been my experiences too. Also have had some fish "batt" at the bait with ??? not sure what, it was too fast and out aways.
I need to remember this posted info/opinion, it could make the day sometime. |
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Posts: 304
| Couple true 'fish' stories:
Had a young brash buddy from Illinois hand it to me on a 3 day trip.I did my usual 'type A' act and he stood behind me throwing a beat up old Topraider at,literally,a snails pace.(like barely moving,like prop barely rotating,like I was getting 3 casts to all spots to his one,like even crawling with the trolling motor would mean his casts all ended behind the boat.)End of 3 days we had 5 50s.He got 4 of them.
Back in my guiding days would guide 2 guides and lure makers on the Woods.All we would throw was surface baits.Period.
End of day,winner almost always was someone crawling some proto contraption VERY slow.
Is there a message?Who knows. |
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Posts: 331
Location: Stevens Point, Wisconsin | I know most will say that speed triggers following nipping bumping muskies. There are times when really slowing it down allows big fish to eat. I have caught a number of big muskies on LOTW that speeding it up only left the fish behind and feeding the bait to the fish allowed it to make a lazy lung forward and eat it. I have found this pattern to be especially true during high water temps or when fish are reluctant to chase down baits. There were a few summers where all the small fish were triggered by speeding up top water baits and big fish were triggered by really slowing it down!
As I was writing this I was thinking about a story DP told me that was in line with what I was seeing....... hummmmm.
Ed
Edited by MuskyTime 9/26/2017 1:49 PM
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Location: Contrarian Island | my take is speed with topwater is dependent on the mood of the fish. Aggressive/active/feeding fish love big topwaters fast as I use a tranx hg with mine and have 3 over 51" on top using that reel in the last 3 casting trips. On the flip side, a good fishermen told me once that big fish are lazy and he pointed out he has something like 30 over 50" on slow moving topwaters and 1 or 2 on fast. When fish are neutral or not all that active a slow moving topwater is going to be an easier snack. One night 7 yrs ago I tried to convince a friend of mine to put on one of my hawg wobblers that was making a very enticing click at the time, he agreed, and got a 54" fishing behind my bucktail 10 minutes later... It is hard to do, and I'm usually too amped up to do it...but if you have the patience throwing a hawg wobbler type bait or a slowww moving topwater over the course of a season would probably put more over 50" in your boat than fast...
Edited by BNelson 9/26/2017 1:57 PM
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Posts: 304
| Oh yeh,no doubt speed triggers at times.
Buzz baits for sure.
Wacky wide open Globes.(especially with added jerk bait type rips)
The escaping baby duck type triggering thing.Can remember the first summer the double or Super Topraider was around.Hold your tip up and reel like crazy over toppers and have multiple fish days regularly.Not so much recently-at least for me.Slowwww rules now for biggies in my boat. |
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Posts: 331
Location: Stevens Point, Wisconsin | dickP - 9/27/2017 6:29 AM
Oh yeh,no doubt speed triggers at times.
Buzz baits for sure.
Wacky wide open Globes.(especially with added jerk bait type rips)
The escaping baby duck type triggering thing.Can remember the first summer the double or Super Topraider was around.Hold your tip up and reel like crazy over toppers and have multiple fish days regularly.Not so much recently-at least for me.Slowwww rules now for biggies in my boat.
Hey Dick,
Just curious on your opinion as to why the bigger fish seem to prefer the slower retrieve in recent years (last 8 years or so) on the woods. I have thought about this a little and find it a little interesting.
Some thoughts:
Pressure?
Lack of weed cover provides more time for the fish to check out the bait rather than a fast ambush out of the weeds?
Better water clarity means fish see bait fish better easier to catch and eat means less effort needed to catch prey leads to less effort exerted for chasing down fast moving top water baits?
It's been a while since I have seen a big fish (over 48) wake up hard and smash a top water. Hard for me to believe as large as lotw is that every big fish is under pressure. Head scratcher as to what has caused them to prefer slower moving baits in recent years?
Maybe I'm just over thinking it?
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Posts: 304
| Hi Ed.Just crawled out of a treestand so this may be a bit short.Nope,I sure don't think U are over thinking it.It is a mind twister for sure.I think it's a result of all the things U mentioned and perhaps more.It's also a bit controversial so I'll tread lightly here.
First pressure/conditioning.IMO there is no doubt this is a significant factor.We are prone to always mention the 'mass' of the Woods with the 'million acres,65000 miles of shoreline,14000 islands'etc., but while true,vast portions of that are either not fished or fished little for muskies.As to the rest,well nowadays it's assaulted from every direction.Run one direction to find 'new water' and U find fishermen coming from that direction,or many directions.Large but it fishes smaller and smaller every year.Back in the days of a rock n rope for technology and 25-50 hp tillers for transportation,it was a formidable beast,not so much anymore.Many still have 'secret spots' but few are really secrets and VERY few good spots exist that aren't hit multiple times daily.Present 'surface' weather or dawn/dusk(or increasingly after dark)and many are hit multiple times daily with surface lures.Controversial or not,that has consequences with conditioning,mortality etc.I'll leave it there.
Weeds.I agree,a factor for sure.IMO not so much an 'ambush' thing as it is a 'contact' thing.Those missing weedbeds were places the fish concentrated to feed and we concentrated to catch them.Taken away and leaving us and the fish rocks and other 'structure'(including open water forage)to roam has not only decreased surface action but overall fish contact in general.The loss of just six spots has cost me between 6 to 10 'BIGS' a year-many of which would have been taken on the surface.
Ed I'll quit,boss screaming I should eat,but keep thinking about it.If U solve it,please keep the old man in mind.:-) |
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Posts: 331
Location: Stevens Point, Wisconsin | Thanks Dick,
We are on the same page just wanted some confirmation. 
I sure do miss all the secondary weed spots that had hidden bands of cabbage along random shorelines and the weedy nooks! Sure spread out the pressure but like you said the lake sure fishes smaller now.
I know even when I fist started fishing the lake 17 years ago how fun it was to throw top water all day.
Sill one hell of a body of water!
Ed
Edited by MuskyTime 9/28/2017 9:44 AM
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Posts: 176
| I will go into a figure 8, above and below the surface, but almost always have an old finely tuned Creeper ready to cast back. It's a lot of noise, a lot of splash and moves really slow in an easy to follow straight line. That has worked for me quite often when I get a follow or miss on a "tail splash" or Walk the dog type surface lure. |
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Posts: 1126
Location: Minnesota. | Nomadmusky - 9/30/2017 8:48 AM
I will go into a figure 8, above and below the surface, but almost always have an old finely tuned Creeper ready to cast back. It's a lot of noise, a lot of splash and moves really slow in an easy to follow straight line. That has worked for me quite often when I get a follow or miss on a "tail splash" or Walk the dog type surface lure.
Good to read!! I'm looking for a good, well made Creeper. Had a few lousy baits come my way of late - they all sank too much. Costly...I'm on that hunt now!!
Good post/reply. This "sloooow" deally has me interested!! |
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Posts: 785
| Basically what others have said but keep things going a steady speed, let the fish reorient and hope it eats. If not throw a weagle over it. I've had that work many times. If it doesn't work the fish might just be checking it out. I've witnessed several closed mouth blow ups over the years where the fish never even attempted to eat it. |
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Posts: 343
| I'd try slowing the bait for a foot or so so they can relocate it, then speed up as it often turns them on. If that doesn't work throwback with a jig. I was just in that situation last Thursday and the fish ate the throwback jig. |
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Posts: 1126
Location: Minnesota. | true tiger tamer - 10/3/2017 4:16 PM
I'd try slowing the bait for a foot or so so they can relocate it, then speed up as it often turns them on. If that doesn't work throwback with a jig. I was just in that situation last Thursday and the fish ate the throwback jig.
Brings back some memories of when I first began. Fishing Moose Lk. MN in 1989, over "propeller bar" and had a nice big follow from down deep, mid-day. Big fish. Came up once and not anymore. Traded baits and brought her up again, once. Traded baits and same thing happened.
Ran back to the cabin, got my two boys to show 'em and put on a diff. bait, she showed once. Did this for 7 diff. baits (in all total) and shows and never took. I'll never forget that and I learned a bit about switching baits.
You never know. |
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