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Posts: 431
| It has always been my understanding that as fall arrives and water temps drop weeds die and start consuming oxygen. Muskies tend to move out of the weed areas and begin to search rock and timber areas. They will also use remaining green weeds. Question, if the weeds are the primary source of cover how long will they stay as the weeds are decaying? |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | My understanding is that the weeds themselves do not consume oxygen, rather it's the micro-organisms that decompose those weeds that do. But as long as the weeds are still green, there should be at least some level of photosynthesis occurring. Therefore there should be at least some level of resistance to decomposition--and at the very least, the weeds should be "oxygen neutral" (for lack of a better term). So if this is indeed the case, then I would think that small fish would still use them as cover. Once the weeds turn brown though, then the decomposition process proceeds accordingly...and the area around them would likely be oxygen-depleted. So in that case I would not expect forage species to use them, and therefore I wouldn't expect to find predator species relating to them either.
Interesting question you've asked though, and I'll be very interested to hear what others have to add.
TB |
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Posts: 2325
Location: Chisholm, MN | I think they use green weeds if available no matter what the season is. Up here in northern mn, there is green cabbage through the winter even.
Edited by Kirby Budrow 10/12/2014 3:19 PM
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Posts: 906
Location: Warroad, Mn | I sort of doubt that there has been much study done on the effect of dying weeds and O2 levels in the water. I suspect that there probably isn't as much of a lowering of Oxygen levels as many people think happens. My experience with fishing dead cabbage weed beds(back when there where weeds on the LOTWs) was that fish often used the old dead weeds. It offered cover for both the predator and the prey.Some of my best late fall casting days where in dead cabbage, with only the stalks still standing and offering cover. I would give them a try any day.Doug Johnson
Edited by dougj 10/12/2014 4:34 PM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Agreed, and the fish use weeds, any weeds, all the way through the Winter, too. |
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Posts: 146
Location: Alsip, IL | I had a 3 fish day fishing late last October in thick brown weeds. If I wouldn't have seen a follow I never would have devoted the time as I always believed dying weeds sent fish running for open water, but it worked. Rose one on a slow rolled spinnerbait so i continued to fish the dying weeds, All 3 fish came on a phamtom. |
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Posts: 556
| I catch them in brown dead weeds every year in late fall--lots of smaller fish using those dead weeds also---BUT---I will always fish the green cabbage first if I can find any. |
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Posts: 431
| Interesting comments. So the theory of fish searching the secondary break later in the fall may be more dependent on forage base? |
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Posts: 240
Location: Oconomowc, WI | esox911 - 10/12/2014 4:59 PM
I catch them in brown dead weeds every year in late fall--lots of smaller fish using those dead weeds also---BUT---I will always fish the green cabbage first if I can find any.
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Location: Green Bay, WI | dougj - 10/12/2014 4:32 PM
I sort of doubt that there has been much study done on the effect of dying weeds and O2 levels in the water. I suspect that there probably isn't as much of a lowering of Oxygen levels as many people think happens. My experience with fishing dead cabbage weed beds(back when there where weeds on the LOTWs) was that fish often used the old dead weeds. It offered cover for both the predator and the prey.Some of my best late fall casting days where in dead cabbage, with only the stalks still standing and offering cover. I would give them a try any day.Doug Johnson
Actually, you'd be surprised. I was...
There is a bunch of stuff out there for pond owners, on the effect of weed choice as a source of oxygen for the fish in their ponds. I had no idea that people were big into that sort of thing, but apparently there are some that are. I didn't see any quantitative data on just how much they affect DO levels (would be quite variable anyway, I'd think...), but I sure saw several references on the qualitative effects.
That wacky Internet. What'll Al Gore think of next?
TB |
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Posts: 906
Location: Warroad, Mn | Studies on "pond level O2", and what happens on real lakes would not apply. Water volume and O2 available would be greatly different. I'll bet the O2 level on the LOTWs never changes much due to dying weeds. Again I've never measured O2 levels in the LOTWs, but it always must be good. I know I've caught lots of fish in dead weeds.Doug Johnson
Edited by dougj 10/12/2014 6:08 PM
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Location: Green Bay, WI | Understood. Point well-taken in regards to the macro-ecosystem. I was thinking more along the lines of what would happen right IN the weeds themselves...the micro-ecosystem, as it were. But you're correct in that the sheer volume of water present would essentially buffer any such reduction--and this is especially true for riverine systems, I'd think.
TB |
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| tcbetka - 10/12/2014 7:51 PM
Understood. Point well-taken in regards to the macro-ecosystem. I was thinking more along the lines of what would happen right IN the weeds themselves...the micro-ecosystem, as it were. But you're correct in that the sheer volume of water present would essentially buffer any such reduction--and this is especially true for riverine systems, I'd think.
TB
For sure, if there is any flow this has zero affect.
Chalk up another one for getting fish in dead dying brown smelly weeds. |
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Posts: 409
Location: Almond, WI | Some people forget there is usually a second growth after the die off--cabbage which was the undergrowth and is used to less light will start to grow taller. After turnover, the lack of algae clears up the water allowing light to penetrate deeper. Also, the weeds will retain heat when the sun is out. My three biggest (the largest a 52.75x24.25) came from shallow weeds in early November. |
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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | It is truly situational. The one thing for certain, weeds, no matter if completely dead, or bright green and crisp, will and do offer structure and hold fish year round. Anyone that ice fishes, knows this to be true. I also learned a long time ago not to focus too much on just the green weeds. Great place to start perhaps if never fished the lake, but far too often reality proves otherwise. I prefer to develop a feel for the depth fish are relating to in the conditions/time I'm fishing and then fish the preferred associated structure within said boundaries. Just returned from the annual week long fall trophy hunt. The cabbage was as thick and green on the lakes as the better years I've seen. while the fish were using the same general 'areas' we typically find them, the green cabbage was not holding fish to the point of becoming a point of conversation. The fish were coming from the insides/on top of junk weeds, where they had lanes above/between the dead and dying patches. The specific pattern held true all week, as turnover took hold, and we didn't argue it. What I did argue with, was 5 days of sustained winds in the 20-35mph range. |
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Use of late fall weeds