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Location: Wisconsin | I fish northern wisconsin, and we are having unseasonably cold weather for the next few weeks. I am just wondering what you guys do when you are faced with a cold front like this over a week or two span?
Edited by WiscoMusky 9/11/2014 1:31 PM
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| they should be moving towards the shallows. |
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Location: Hayward, WI | I agree to the above. There's probably always fish out suspended but I tend to move back to structure and fish weeds, rockbars, etc. Bucktails seem to catch a good share for me this time of year, but I think just about anything can work well (crankbaits, rubber, jerkbaits, etc). On shallower flowage type waters I've also had very good luck with topwater.
It's one of my favorite times of year. Seems like fish get pretty agressive and the push towards structure can mean multiple fish days more often for me than most other times of year. |
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| I look forward to relief from guilt at my favorite Eagle River hotel, when I no longer "cheap out" by draining the ice-machine into my boat's cooler each morning. I am usually sitting there with my big garbage bag when some guy just can't help saying,"I wondered who was emptying the ice machine so I couldn't have some for my room" with the accompanying unmistakeable dirty look. The only bad part is that I just sort of switch to dirty looks from the nite-shift hotel guy who watches while I drain the free coffee into my giant thermos. That's the only difference for me---just tie on the same buck tail and cast it to the shore line! |
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Location: Contrarian Island | i have no clue what that means Junkman! ; ) shallow is a good bet this time of year.... |
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| Like all free advice...it's worth what you pay for it! But yea, I think it's time to rediscover the shorelines! The rest was just the meaningless meanderings of my mostly idle mind, "Fallnet!" |
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| Up here now. Cold. 40 degree weather. rainy. Not much wind. With good action on skis so far. Slow and shallow. |
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Location: With my son on the water | I have to ask and I hope someone can tell me from a scientific stand point.
Why do so many of you say they will go shallow during this big cold spell? Isn't the shallow water affected more by a drop in air tempuratures than deeper water? In the spring when we get a cold snap the gills move off the beds to deeper water. So why are many of you saying they will be shallow now? We have had water temps in the upper 60s and this cold spell will drive it down more. We will probably be in the beginning stages of turn over and many of the weeds will be dieing if they haven't already.
So why shallow now verus deeper? I am confused,
Have a good day. 
Edited by btfish 9/12/2014 2:14 PM
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Location: Contrarian Island | not scientific but it might be from catching a lot of them shallow in the past... ie. real world experience... 
we are no where near turnover in Sept in most parts of musky land...weeds hold fish til ice up....
Edited by BNelson 9/12/2014 2:19 PM
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Location: minocqua, wi. | who told you the weeds have died? |
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Location: With my son on the water | BNelson
That's not the answer I was looking for. The past 3 weeks have been fantastic for us up here in the north (shallow) with many multiple fish days and several very large fish near 50 in my boat. (So I too have some experience)
Turnover starts at 59 Degrees and we have had several nights in the low 30s and the air temp during the day is not forcecasted to be above 59 much anymore so our water temps are crashing fast. Which means turn over is coming fast.
Yes the fish have been shallow but I just don't see how they will stay there with this big cold snap. That's why I am looking for a more scientific answer and am curious why people say they go shallow during a cold snap?
Have a good day |
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Location: With my son on the water | Not all weeds die at the same time, it depends what type they are. Some weeds die in the August and other kinds die later on. So nobody told me, but I saw it. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | i get green weeds through the ice …
hint, if days are getting shorter, and the water is cooling, where is the warmest water … |
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| jonnysled - 9/12/2014 2:37 PM
hint, if days are getting shorter, and the water is cooling, where is the warmest water …
Deep.
But that's opposite of where people are saying to fish. |
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Posts: 2015
| Knock Knock... |
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| jonnysled - 9/12/2014 2:37 PM
i get green weeds through the ice …
hint, if days are getting shorter, and the water is cooling, where is the warmest water …
Down South?? |
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| Who's there? |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | shallow sand and weeds hold heat energy and water is warmer, bait use it and so do predators. fishing shallow in late september and october must be a well-kept secret.
after a cold front go into the matted up weeds and disturb them sometime and let me know what you find in there buried in it. it's not uncommon and it's not just muskies either.
crappies will start using wood pilings of dock structure pretty soon for the same reason … why? cuz it's september.
your are right jaultman … fish deep.
edit: … an excerpt from the most recent fishing report from Andy Meyer's Lodge on Eagle Lake which is ahead of us on cooling water …
"Some of the weed beds are now starting to deteriorate but many are still holding fish and as we move into pre turnover and cooling water do not be afraid to get up into and try what we call "froggy" water, brown tobacco cabbage and junk weeds up shallower than most would fish and it can even be the pattern of the day especially under sunny conditions."
call it feel, experience, science (yes, there is logic to it) … call it whatever you want … argue it, agree with it etc… it's a fun time to fish and fish get predictable = makes it fun.
Edited by jonnysled 9/12/2014 4:35 PM
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| "I am just wondering what you guys do when you are faced with a cold front like this over a week or two span?"
That's simple, if faced with those conditions in the late summer / early fall I fish as much as possible because those conditions generate the best and most predictable fishing of the year. You have your seasons mixed up if you think fall cold fronts negatively affect muskies...
Edited by esoxcpr 9/12/2014 5:05 PM
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| "Sledspeak" can be hard to decipher, but there is lots to learn from it. He is saying fish shallow weedy areas with sand and all weeds do not die at the same time, there are always some green weeds. Weeds and sandy areas warm easier throughout the day. Sand is light color and will reflect the sunlight, thus warming the water faster and the dark weeds will hold that heat. Baitfish will push up onto shallow weedy areas, because the weeds and sand warm up faster. As always, not all fish go shallow. In my limited experience opinion it is easier to target shallow fish than the deep water ones pre-transition.
I just watched a video from Thornes about the Sept. bite. The guy gives a good summary of what Sled is talking about. |
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Location: The desert | I thought Sled layed it out pretty black and white, even before the edit.
His response should be pinned to the top every year at the end of August. |
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| Light sand will reflect the heat and dark weeds will hold the heat????? What does that mean. Pointer...sarcasm...I hope as you are the self proclaimed master of the said art.... |
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| I would suggest re-reading the posts before critiquing what was said. "Sand is light colored", not light sand. Light colors reflect more sunlight, so sand does not heat up as easily as dark colors. The reflected light warms the water, and the dark weeds absorb that warmth. Warmer water attracts the baitfish.
Watch the Thorne's video on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_XAryuOY9c
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Location: minocqua, wi. | i learned it and many other things from people who wanted to make me think so that i could understand and solve the puzzle on my own vs. telling me outright what they learned over time. i forgot there is a new generation of southshores who need it all spoon-fed because they aren't willing to work hard enough to figure anything out on their own.
there is a ton of free information … take or leave it i guess.
double-talk … LOL … thanks superstar |
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| teddy b - 9/12/2014 4:23 PM
Who's there?
Cash |
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| Get ready to set the hook Justin!
Cash who? |
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Posts: 2015
| Just pointing out some people are "nuts" on this board
edit: good advice sled
Edited by IAJustin 9/12/2014 10:10 PM
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Location: Hayward, WI | Some of the whys of this can be hard to wrap your head around at first. If so, read what Sled wrote again, followed by a good point by point explanation from ARmusky addict, and try to think it through. Some of it might seem counter intuitive at first but think about what is going on this time of year, and how it might affect shallow vs deep water and a light bulb might come on.
If that still fails, maybe try some Google searches, or just be willing to accept that at this time of year lots of fish move shallower rather than deeper.
Oh yeah, and it's very true that not all weeds die this time of year. I pull up plenty of green weeds all winter long, into the spring, and summer. Some of the weeds that stay the greenest are also the deeper ones. Might seem counter intuitive too, but it's reality.
Sled was right on, he's just trying to provoke some thought, which is what it takes to catch these fish consistently (apparently I haven't been thinking too much this year). |
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Location: The desert | So plants can even start growing under the ice!
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| Pointerpride102 - 9/12/2014 11:08 PM
So plants can even start growing under the ice!
Only AIS |
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Location: Hayward, WI | Pointerpride102 - 9/12/2014 11:08 PM
So plants can even start growing under the ice!
Not sure they start growing, but they don't stop living. |
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Location: north central wisconsin | I've never bought into the whole 'fish avoid dying weeds' theory, for fall fishing. Do green weeds tend to hold more fish? Many have seen a dead patch of milfoil in the middle of the live stand of green broadleaf, be the magnet. Some lakes contain nothing but milfoil/junk weeds that tend to decay in cold water periods. Fish use it year round.
I think one also needs to consider cold front fishing, vs. seasonal cooldown. The photoperiod/sun angle this time of year, coupled with extended cool weather patterns cause many things to happen in the shallows. Emerald Shiners and other regional shad species spawn in the fall, coupled with certain 'false runs' exhibited by some game fish. Frog migrations, sucker/creek exits, aquatic invertebrate movements, all occur on some/many bodies of water and can be discussed on their own merit, but can add up to success, once understood.
As someone mentioned, the shallows are more affected by warmups/cooldowns than the greater depths. It's my BST that for those reasons(perhaps not this year), fish don't mind being up shallow this time of year based on comfort factor alone. Ever ice fish for trout? They will inhabit extreme shallows on natural lakes under the ice. While they require cooler water during summer, they can also handle colder temps during winter.
Edited by Reef Hawg 9/13/2014 10:11 AM
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Location: The desert | curleytail - 9/13/2014 1:02 AM
Pointerpride102 - 9/12/2014 11:08 PM
So plants can even start growing under the ice!
Not sure they start growing, but they don't stop living. ; )
Curly leaf pondweed can start growing under the ice. Most die out early in the summer and wash up on shore and their decomposition can cause algal blooms. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | We moved quite a few fish the last couple days, and boated a couple. All were in 3' or less. Slamr had good action on a Weagle, but the stupid fish kept closing their mouths too soon. I got a couple 'pins', one on a Lake X topwater (first fish on that bait, and it SMOKED it) and one on a HI Suick. Saw some very nice fish, a couple which I shall pursue as soon as this evening.
My dock rope was frozen in an inch of ice in the splashwell yesterday morning. Went to combo water after it warmed up a bit and the Goldens fished muskies while Sue and I caught dinner. Good times.
60s highs and 40s lows now for 10 days or so. Fishing is going to be really good. Temps in 3' were 57 after the big rain, and by yesterday evening were back to 61.9 to 62.5 North shores. Main lake on the 8-10' breaklines was 58-59.
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Location: Shoreview, MN | I don't know why, and really who cares .... at least some fish do move very shallow (1-2 ft!) as the water cools - at least from about now until at least couple weeks after turnover... I especially like inside edges this time of year, and on a sunny day sand, although shallow following fish can be tough to trick... most of the shallow/sand fish I catch hit near the end of a long cast - |
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| Approximately, how long would you guys say this pattern of fish moving shallow lasts, i.e. Does it last up until ice up or is there another phase following turn over, etc?
Edited by goose007us 9/16/2014 2:45 PM
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Location: north central wisconsin | goose007us - 9/16/2014 2:44 PM
Approximately, how long would you guys say this pattern of fish moving shallow lasts, i.e. Does it last up until ice up or is there another phase following turn over, etc?
It is really dependant on the body of water you are fishing. Because you mentioned turnover, I'm guessing a lake, in which case, the shallow pattern may or may not manifest itself noticeably in the first place. If it does, it can persist to a degree right through the fall period. In general, fish start to move deep, the colder it gets and the winter period looms, but you should always keep the shallows honest. They can feel a degree in temperature change from a long ways, and can thusly make large movements both daily and seasonally. In the end, your lake will likely exhibit a slightly different pattern than the one your buddy fishes. Comparing that data/experience can help you develop a milk run and continue it to the fullest once it starts, eventually forecasting when the next lake you fish will get hot. Putting it together is the fun part, when it works...
Edited by Reef Hawg 9/16/2014 4:45 PM
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| Just returned from Vilas, coldest water we found was 55 degrees, most lakes were 58/59. Fish are scattered all over the place, very short windows for us. Turnover will be real soon if this keeps up . Suckers are next to impossible to get. We found a handful shallow but not many. |
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Location: Shoreview, MN | Depending upon forage base and other factors I'll last at least until a couple weeks after turnover, and even later when you get a nice sunny day... Turnover pushes them shallow because they are seeking the clearer, more oxygen-rich water. Late afternoons after a nice sunny day is a key time to try shallow. A few years ago I had a nice fish come out of about 2' of water next to a dead patch of millfoil on Dec 5th - it was almost 60 that day and iced up less than a week later.
I will say the shallow fish can be tricky to get to open up - esp on clearer water - they follow very actively but get spooked easily. It can be very frustrating to see a bunch and not have any biters. I've been bird-dogging a nice fish the past 3-4 days - every night same thing - it follows out pretty aggressively on the proper cast into the spot, and then turns away at the boat. Never see it more than once a try ... 3 nights tried three different baits - rubber, jerkbait, topwater - same result all three times... somebody's going to get that one!
Of course that's to say there aren't fish deep too... when the shallow followers give me fits I'l go back to working deep edges and sometimes get one that way too .... esp after turnover they can be anywhere. |
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Location: Wisconsin | Awesome discussion from everyone. I really appreciate all the opinions, and I have to agree with a lot that is being talked about.
Obviously each lake is different- whether it be location, forage, water tempature or clarity, or a number of other factors. But this discussion helped me think about how to approach a long period of fall cold periods.
I am fishing this weekend, and can't wait to put some of this talk to work. I will post some findings following my efforts. |
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| Water is in the high 70's @ the cave. I am going to be burning 10's and 13's this weekend. |
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| did not know I could still fish for muskies after dec in Minnesota ??? |
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| TonyT65 - 9/18/2014 10:51 AM
did not know I could still fish for muskies after dec in Minnesota ???
Cant. .dont |
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| 06/07/14 - 12/01/14
Muskellunge (Muskie) - 2014 season
You can fish muskies in Dec in MN. |
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Location: Metro | Would you say the same for lakes around Mille Lacs? I have a cabin up there and have been fishing musky all summer not the best luck on the lake I have been hitting hard this summer. It is a deep lake and most fish I have seen have been throwing bates from weed beds out to open water. Do you thhink I should start getting close to those weed beds and look for the shallow spawning areas for musky this time of year with the conditions we have right now? |
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| Do you suppose this shallow pattern would still be holding true in Northern WI? |
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techniques for the cold next few weeks