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Posts: 173
| Anyone have preferences on trolling motor batteries? I'm looking to get a new set for my 24v system up front.
Thanks |
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Posts: 743
| any brand, AGM series 31. that's it. I assume you don't fish 150 days a year, so any brand AGM 31's will be perfect for you. AGM is a type of battery. without a doubt, the best technology for any trolling motor. don't waste money on a "6 pack" brand. just get AGM batteries and if 31's fit, get them, if not get the next size down, I think 29. |
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Posts: 410
Location: With my son on the water | I am by no means a battery expert but we have all gone through a time when we have had to purchase TM batteries. As I look back at the xx number of set that I have had to be honest no one set sticks out in my mind as being better than another. My batteries have always lasted 4-5 years. (Keep them charged, keep the fluid level correct, don't freeze them but keep them in a cold place in the off season) So I would agree brand may not mean that much. I just had a buddy have his interstates fail in less than a year. I think interstates are good batteries and he did get them replaced for free. I also did a search on the Northern Battery web page and learned they make batteries (big names) for many other people. Trust me companies don't have one manufacturing process for one brand and another process for someone else, they are all the same, just a label/packaging change. So again I would agree brand may not mean that much. Northern has a great technical service phone line, check it out.
I would also agree that size is important. 31 series if they fit will have more duty cycle so they will last longer before they need a charge.
I always wondered what an AGM battery was so I did a search and the link is below. Maybe I am reading it wrong but the two advantages of an AGM battery is they are sealed so you don't have to add distilled water if that is a big deal to you and you can mount them in any orientation you want if you need to. But I am not seeing anything related to battery life or actual performance. I would assume AGM batteries are more expensive so a person needs to evaluate what you personally need.
Have a good day.
http://www.techbatterysolutions.com/What-is-an-AGM-Battery-s/4669.h... |
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Posts: 1036
| Was going to say Optima Batteries. Found out they are an AGM battery. I've run the blue tops for about four years now. Excellent batteries. Still going strong. Before them, I was burning batteries out within two years. I'm not going to claim to know or understand the technology. But what I do understand is power on the water and I've yet to run these out of juice. I also understand longevity and these blue tops have it. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | not sure where you live but if you are close to a Blains Farm and Fleet the Duration AGM's they sell are a great value for AGMs and I've had great luck w them...a few of my buds have now switched to them and have had good experiences with them as well. I have them in my Ranger and my up north Tuffy no issues. Optimas imo are overpriced and quality has gone down. |
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Posts: 20218
Location: oswego, il | I bought an optima and I am very disappointed. I never get a full day out of it and if I know I am going to have to run it a little hard I am forced to leave the front finder off. I always keep it charged, it does not last as long as the cheapie batteries I was using. Its the biggest marine battery they make. |
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Posts: 183
Location: Grand Forks ND | A properly charged battery will not freeze. |
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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | I'm with those above recomending the AGM's. Ran most types/brands over past two decades, and these batteries(Farm and Fleet durations) have been impressive to date(third year and very strong).
Also, I wouldn't neccessarily say you 'need' 31 series batteries. It really depends upon your situation/boat size/amount of time between charges/usage etc. If you have a big boat with room for them, great. However, I know alot of people who fish/guide nearly every day, that do very well with two 27 or 29 series batteries. Again I agree that if you have the space, get the biggest you can get, but you don't have to fret if you can only afford/fit the 27's in the back of your boat.
Edited by Reef Hawg 8/21/2014 4:50 PM
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Posts: 224
Location: Madison | Sears diehard marine platnium 31s. Currently on sale for $217, plus there's a $35 off coupon code so you can get two batteries for about $200 each.
These are the same batteries as the Odyssey AGMs that cost twice as much. |
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Posts: 337
Location: Watersmeet, Michigan | Can only go by experience and what various mechanics have told me. There have been a lot of changes in battery manufacturing over the past few years and many brands have suffered a drop in quality - watch warranties! I paid a lot of money for a pair of Cabela's AGM batteries and they only lasted two seasons. Took care of them on a good 2 amp charger; never let them get low. Reading their customer reviews, it seems that what was a good product has fallen in quality and my experience was common.
Replaced them, at the advice of my dealer's mechanic, with a pair of lead-acid 31 series. Good luck!
Fr. K |
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Posts: 676
Location: Wisconsin | I would like to know why my post got deleted?? Sorry if people get touchy about product reviews, but maybe that company should stop trying to make a little big more margin and make a quality product. Even that company's own techs are not putting that companies product into boats they rig. |
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Posts: 79
| I have AGMs in my ranger. Group 31s. I have never had good success with any lead-acid battery. The lead acids last about two years and then start getting weak. On my aluminum boat I have fleet farm gel coats that are group 31 and they are at 10 years. I'm beginning to wonder if they will ever go bad? I know Brad Nelson has had great success with his AGMs. In my opinion it seems AGMS or gel coats are generally more trouble free and more economical than lead-acids. |
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Posts: 2753
Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | All marine deep cycle batteries used for trolling motor and main motor starting applications are lead-acid.
The differences are in the electrolyte which is essentially a mixture of sulphiric acid and distilled water.
Wet-cells - Have removable vent caps and free liquid electrolyte.
AGM's - Have the electrolyte held between the plates by an absorbant glass mat (AGM). They have pressure release vents - with no free liquid electrolyte. Do not remove the vent caps....
Gel-cells - Have a gelling agent added to the electrolyte - they have no free electrolyte and pressure release vents like the AGM's.
The differences in the electrolyte produces different performance characteristics for the same size battery.
Wet-cells are more forgiving of overcharging, because you can add distilled water to replace the lost H2O that boils off when charging or overcharging.
AGM's and gel-cells are very unforgiving of overcharging, its easy to destroy the battery. AGM's provide the best optimised performance for multiple load profiles, meaning both high rate and low rate discharges. They are a good choice for both starting duty and TM duty applications.
Gel-cells are not designed for high rate duty applications, e.g., because the electrolyte is gelled the electrolyte cannot transport the current as quickly as either a wet-cell or AGM.
AGM's have lowest impedance and consequently highest short-circuit currents. But tha also makes them excellent motor starting duty batteries. We use them extensively in the uninterruptible power supply (UPS) industry where the discharge duty rates/loads are not predictable.
No lead-acid battery is forgiving of undercharging, so keep your batteries charged, and never leave them sit a discharged condition!
BTW: I have a AGM for my starting battery and 2 big wet-cells for my 24V trolling motor in ESOX Maniac. I use the wet-cells because they are the cheapest and will last a long time if taken care of properly.
Have fun!
Al
Edited by ESOX Maniac 8/23/2014 8:54 AM
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Posts: 79
| Al,
Thanks for the better clarification on the battery differences. The question I have always had is why do the gel coats or AGMs always last so much longer than the wet cells? (What most call lead/acids). I've had interstates, ever starts, sears, and etc and never get more than two good years. I put the gel coats in or have buddies with the AGMS and these in my experience last so much longer for trolling batteries. My group 31 fleet farm gel coats are from 2003. They sat out of the boat two years before I put them back in. |
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Posts: 2753
Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | Ande- Deep cycle gell cells are an ideal low rate discharge battery (read->for trolling motor application) where the discharge rate is 25-50A and they excell over AGM's at higher ambient temperature's. They usually cost more....They are a very poor starting battery, you will quickly kill them, they were not designed for that application.
My deep cycle wet-cells (Everstarts) are a year older than your's, but I know how to take care of them. The usual killer is how you take care of them, meaning type of charger, etc. Use the wrong charger, leave it on to long and overcharge or undercharge them or leave them set for days or weeks in a discharged or even partial discharge condition is a surefire recipe for needing replacement batteries. The charger has to match the battery type and you have to charge them properly.... That's where most guys kill their batteries, I wrote an article for Muskies Inc magazine quite some years back, I think the title was "That battery didn't just die, it was murdered!" Battery salesman love customers who abuse their batteries..... abuse is not covered by the warranty.
A good deep cycle wet-cell will out perform a gell cell or AGM of the same size in a trolling motor application.
Have fun!
Al
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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | Al,
My 15 year old Nautilus Gold portable charger finally bit the dust(cords became damaged beyond repair. I am in need of a 'general' charger for my wet cell jon boat battery(I have onboard chargers in my other boats), and also to charge a car or atv battery if needed. I will probably switch to AGM in the jon next year.
I picked up a Schumacher 75w(their top charger with a stated 75a car start feature) from Walmart and connected it to my battery that I had charged a month ago and disconnected. I came home from fishing after 6 hours on the 20 amp setting, and the battery was boiling like crazy and the readout said 95%. I took the charger back this morning.
Can you recommend a good portable charger that is reliable? I guess I don't really 'need' the vehicle start feature, though I'd likely need to get one of the emergency packs. |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | Don't think I would ever charge a battery at more than 10 amps except in emergency. The lower and slower the better in my opinion |
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Posts: 79
| Al,
Thank you for the explanation. I have had those questions for a long time. I am a bit abusive on equipment. Given that I am unlikely to change is one type of battery more forgiving than an other type given my bad habits? Lastly, How damaging would it be if I stuck a Gel Coat battery in for my electronics and parallel ported a Wet Cell Starting battery with an on/off switch? (In my aluminum boat I have a designated Wet Cell Napa starting battery. I have a designated Interstate Wet Cell for my electronics currently. I am thinking of changing that to a Gel Coat and replacing the Interstate Wet Cell. When the designated electronics battery runs low, I could switch the on/off parallel port line and feed some charge back to the Gel coat or go the other direction if the starting battery ran low) Will this work or is it a very bad idea? |
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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | horsehunter - 8/24/2014 8:52 AM
Don't think I would ever charge a battery at more than 10 amps except in emergency. The lower and slower the better in my opinion
That's interesting and I can't say I'd disagree, but my Dual Pro 3 bank is 15 amps per bank and my batteries seem to last a long time in that boat. My other onboard is a 6amp per bank and it isn't quite fully charged some mornings. My old portable was a 10 amp though, and I'd be just fine with another, just need a reliable brand/model(I've been learning that the chargers rating and what they actually deliver are not always the same).
Edited by Reef Hawg 8/24/2014 9:20 AM
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Location: Eastern Ontario | I think your Dual pro would put out 15 amps when the batteries were at a very low state of charge and taper the output as the batteries got closer to being fully charged. |
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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | Indeed, it does. The charger I had purchased(Schumacher portable), was supposedly that same technology, but seemed like it never reduced it's charging, and never shut off when I knew the batteries were at full charge. I'll keep shopping for a good charger. Some have recommended the Battery Tender brand for charging/maintaining/desulfating.
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Posts: 83
Location: Des Moines Iowa | ESOX Maniac do you have a particular charger you like or recommend for wet cell batteries? |
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Posts: 1264
Location: E. Tenn | muskiebob1 - 8/24/2014 7:39 PM
ESOX Maniac do you have a particular charger you like or recommend for wet cell batteries?
..or AGM batteries? |
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Location: Contrarian Island | I've run AGMs since 2007 and I have had great success with a Pro Mariner charger..... |
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Posts: 2753
Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | Ande - I wouldn't recommend doing that each battery type, e.g, wet-cell or gel-cell or AGM requires different charging methodology. Get a charger that can charge either one. Read this thread too!
http://muskie.outdoorsfirst.com/board/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=42...
Vector was bought by Black & Decker in 2006.
http://www.blackanddecker.com/power-tools/VEC1089ABD.aspx
I have had good luck with them. One last piece of advice plug them into a surge surpressor at the wall outlet or use a surge protection power strip.... You don't want lightning taking out your charger(s).
Have fun!
Al
Edited by ESOX Maniac 8/25/2014 7:25 PM
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Posts: 2753
Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | BNelson- Don't get me wrong ProMariner makes good products too. Its just hard to charge your truck and other batteries with an on-board permanently connected charger in your boat. Convenient for the boat? Yes!
http://promariner.com/products/waterproof-on-board-marine-battery-c...
Have fun!
Al
Edited by ESOX Maniac 8/25/2014 8:57 PM
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Location: Contrarian Island | yah i have the pro tournament 150... 7 yrs and going strong... |
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Posts: 83
Location: Des Moines Iowa | Are "fully automatic", "microprocessor controlled" and "smart chargers" all the same or are there differences? |
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Posts: 2753
Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | MuskieBob1- Not all smart charger's are smart, nor are they all fully automatic. No charger can detect the lead-acid battery type, meaning wet-cell, gel-cell or AGM. You have to read all the specifications or instructions for each manufacturer's product to understand what you have.
F.Ex.
http://promariner.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/PT_Manual.pdf
Ther ProMariner appears to be an fully automatic optimized smart charger designed for wet-cell batteries. Its ampere output is distributed to the batteries as needed. This means the total output rating is the ampere rating. It doesn't mean you get 3 x the ampere rating if you get 3- output model.
The float voltage of 13.3V is optimized to extend battery life and prevent overcharging and excessive gassing/loss of electrolyte.
Hint: Read the very last "Important Notice" in the ProMariner manual, e.g. about gel-cells and AGM's.
http://servicenet.blackanddecker.com/documents/English/Instruction%...
The Black & Decker is not really fully automatic, meaning you have to select the battery type and the charging rate. Once selected its a fully automatic smart charger designed to provide the correct charging profile. It also has other features that are not available in the ProMariner.
However, you would need three of them if you wanted to charge 3 separate batteries at once. I have two of them so I can charge both of my TM batteries at the same time, I can also charge Esox Mainiac's starting battery, or my truck battery and I have a spare if one fails. Having no means to charge your TM batteries on a trip to Canada would be a bummer. This year we used my chargers to charge the TM batteries in two camp boats at a remote outpost camp during our trip to Cliff Lake Ontario.
However, the Black & Decker is not typically permanently installed. You have to connect it and set it up each time you want to charge the battery. Having a permanently installed charger like the ProMariner is obviously a personal choice of convenience.
Its all about choices - my choices may not be the same as yours. Its much like rods, reels or lures or lakes you fish. The more you know about anything allows you to make better choices.
Have fun!
Al
Edited by ESOX Maniac 8/27/2014 7:22 AM
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Posts: 83
Location: Des Moines Iowa | Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge. 1 more question. What should the voltage read on a fully charged wet cell? |
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Posts: 2753
Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | After resting for ~ 8hrs w/o charging the voltage should be ~12.7V with a digital meter. If its lower it indicates either the battery wasn't fully charged or its lost capacity. The voltage will gradually go down over time as the battery ages and/or is cycled more -> discharged/recharged.
Have fun!
Al |
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Posts: 2753
Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | One last bit of advice. When I say resting that means the battery has been on charge for ~24 hrs previously and they have been setting without charge or load (resting) for ~8 hrs.
All deep cycle batteries we typically use in our boats should be fully recharged after 24hrs of charging, depending on the charger and ampere rating. The typical recharge time varies with the charging current - never use a 75A boost charger on a deep cycle battery if you don't know what you're doing....
With respect to state of charge or battery capacity in the battery. The voltage state of charge chart in this webpage is a good guideline. If your battery reads 12.4 or lower after resting for 8 hrs, its probably time for a replacement battery.
http://www.emarineinc.com/pages/Batteries-Maintenance-101.html
My experience is that once they reach this 80% SOC (12.4V), its time to replace them. For what its worth, my TM wet-cells are now at the 12.4V level after ~12 years. I've pushed them to the edge. They will be replaced for next season, I'm just hoping I can put it off for the rest of this season.
Have fun!
Al |
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Posts: 358
| Interstate Marine. |
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Posts: 2753
Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | I buy my batteries from Walmart. Why? Because they have stores all over, including Kenora and Dryden. If one fails under warranty when I'm on trips, etc., I don't have to go back to a local battery reseller/vendor/marina. Wallmart also has pretty good prices and usually good turn over in battery stock.
If the battery in the store has dust on it, don't buy it! Ask what the date of manufacture was, each battery manufacturer uses a date code. If its more than 3-months old, don't buy it.
https://www.google.com/webhp?source=search_app&gws_rd=ssl#q=Battery&...
There are lots of deep cycle batteries - its like buying an other product, do your research, then get your wallet out.
If you want really great performance->
http://www.lithiumion-batteries.com/products/product/12v-200ah-lith...
Have fun!
Al
Have fun!
Al |
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Trolling Motor Batteries