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Posts: 59
| Just got back from LOTW and had a great trip with one exception. A giant fish was boatside, took a hard run after seeing the boat, and bent the 7/0 mustad hook on the bucktail straight and got away. I want to stick with the 7/0 size on my baits, but wanted to see what brand and strength hook is the best for both hooking percentage and strength. I don't really care about price, only quality. Also, for safety of fisherman and the fish, I would like them to be able to be cut with hook cutters. I have already tried VMC and I lost 5 straight fish. I found the mustad's to have great hook up rates, but weak strength properties. Anybody have any insight from personal experience? |
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Posts: 531
| I never really heard people blame hooks before on not hooking fish, When you compare the VMC and the Mustad next to each other what do you see that's different in the shape that would make one better than another?
Also I have straitened hooks before, it required me to wrap my line around a boat cleat and put the motor into gear (trying to get a snagged bait free last resort), never have I had it happen with the amount of drag a reel is capable of. So your serious that a musky hit you set the hook the musky took a power run and hook went strait? the other hook on the bait didn't get snagged on a tree or the trolling motor? it was fish to bait, to line, to reel, to you?
I am not terribly familiar with 7/0s but see what brand makes them I imagine only a few are available and buy a small quantity of each and find the one you like the best.
Edited by anzomcik 7/31/2014 2:28 PM
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Posts: 59
| The VMC's don't seem as sharp. Also, the Mustad is more of a golden color and the VMC a darker silver.
and yes it was from the fish. no question. It happened to one other guy in our camp a few years back, not sure what he was using. We caught a 52 the day before and during the net process, he twisted in the net and bent that hook, and that is very common even with fish in the upper forties. I just replace and move on. This is my first experience with it being bent solely from direct pressure from the fish.
Basically I am just looking for anyone with experience with a hook that is very strong and also has a high hooking percentage. |
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Posts: 531
| I am not trying to change direction of the post but how sharp the hook is should be a direct result of how well you sharpen them.
What i ment was when i asked for a compairison was, shank length- which one is longer or short and what you think is better. Hook Gap- hooks of the same class size are the same size. Barb Size- the bigger the barb the more effort to stic a fish but greater holding power. Hook Shape- some people like certain shape hooks. Harndness of metal- mustads cut easy for me they are softer and more easily deformed, eagle claws are harder more effort to sharpen but hold the point better (just compairing the two brand i use most).
What is different with the mustad that makes you feel it hooks up better than the VMC (sharpness from the factory is correctable and should be done by user)
Edited by anzomcik 7/31/2014 3:11 PM
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Posts: 1036
| A boatside run versus a net job are two totally different things in the world of straightening out hooks. Fish in a net can really torque any hook. But on a run? Man, if it happened once on a Mustad to me, I'd replace all of them.
For the money, I use Gamigatsu's (spelling error, I know). Very tough hooks, very sharp. |
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Posts: 2687
Location: Hayward, WI | I'm sure there could be a hook with soft metal here and there, but I have to think if any 7/0 hook is being straightened by a fish on the run, your thumb is clamped down on the spool with a heavy drag maxed!
I shouldn't say that - don't mean to accuse, it just seems like it would take a lot more than a fish running to do that. Ever hook a rod up to a scale to see how hard you can set the hook or pull dead weight? Anybody have that old video of Baldy picking up a bucket of water with like 25 pounds of water in it with a St. Croix XXXH? I seem to remember that rod totally bent over and Baldy (a big guy) shaking to get it off the ground.
Anyway, I'd almost have to think it was some sort of unfortunate fluke. The 7/0 and 8/0 Mustad 3551's have always worked well with me, though I guess I've never caught the giants you might have dealt with on them. Had some pretty good ones though with no hook issues.
I really love Eagle Claw 774 hooks but they only go up to 5/0.
Edited by curleytail 7/31/2014 3:26 PM
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Posts: 1220
| The most common place to see a 7-0 is both hooks on the Origial Double Cowgirl (Mustads I think) These hooks on that bait IMHO are quite likely the highest percentage opportunity to put a musky in a net that exists in our musky fishing universe. Honestly. Now, if you think they are sharp enough to use out of the package...you'll have some sad outcomes...but if properly sharp, I'm certain you can't beat it. Exception: The Trokar hooks I'm bass fishing with...if they start making big trebbles...will change those rules!! |
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Posts: 59
| Just got off the phone with Gamakatsu, they only go up to 5/0 too. The customer service rep said the reason they don't go that big is there are inherent flaws, from a sheer physics stand point that make big hooks more susceptible to bending. Additionally he said I will need to go to a 3x or 4x style hook with an O shaunessy bend???, which has a smaller gap. He added with the muskies big mouth you wouldn't want to lower the gap or give up strength so it is a balancing act that is difficult to achieve.
As for the comment on my thumb, it is true I do "Horse in" muskies by design. My theory is that you cannot slow play a musky like you would a walleye or a bass (on typical musky gear - I understand when someone gets one on 6lbs mono walleye fishing that people land them all the time), the reason is that you will lose an even higher percentage with their violent head-shakes when you give up tension. I have a Tranx and I tighten the drag all the way down. It has served me well until this point, but I think if I just had a stronger hook I could keep the philosophy. |
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Posts: 1144
Location: Minnesota. | Big Dangler - 7/31/2014 2:12 PM
Just got back from LOTW and had a great trip with one exception. A giant fish was boatside, took a hard run after seeing the boat, and bent the 7/0 mustad hook on the bucktail straight and got away. I want to stick with the 7/0 size on my baits, but wanted to see what brand and strength hook is the best for both hooking percentage and strength. I don't really care about price, only quality. Also, for safety of fisherman and the fish, I would like them to be able to be cut with hook cutters. I have already tried VMC and I lost 5 straight fish. I found the mustad's to have great hook up rates, but weak strength properties. Anybody have any insight from personal experience?
I made a post not too far back now for this very reason. Rather, a large fish might not be hooked well, e.g. lightly lip hooked etc. So...do "you" back off your drag when fighting a bit? I do and wanted opinions. It would have saved you.
I took a personal best on our family vac. two weeks ago, a 54" er. I decided to back off the drag a tad then and it went well.
Also I set my drag to give when I pull her pretty firmly, never tight. Just me. Been brought up that way. Might have cost me one nice fish years back, not certain though.
Good luck next time and sorry you lost such a fine fish. |
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Posts: 345
Location: Poynette WI. | I've used VMC, Gama's, eagle Claw and mustad; Ive built a ton of my own bucktails and for the price, quality and performance I will use Mustad's 90% of the time whether its 4/0 through 7/0. With that being said i sharpen all my hooks and they will be sharper than before i took them out of the bag or new lures i've bought. I still would expect anyone to check hook sharpness before using any lure. The first thing i also do when anyone is fishing in my boat is hand them a hook sharpner if they do not have one with them. I've yet to have a fish straighten out anything larger than a 5/0, i've had fish bend my hooks some but not all the way out. I like the slimmer shanks on the mustads over a thicker shank and from my experience they are plenty strong enough. I use pounding in a trim nail compared to a 16penny nail, well at least thats my thought process. |
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Posts: 2894
Location: Yahara River Chain | You "horsed" too hard. Its not a matter of "strength or hooking %". One good thing, you did find the weakest link in your equipment and its your hooks (that sounds good). Now play that fish just under that amount of tension you used to straightening a hook and you'll be fine.
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Posts: 59
| I also make my own baits, (double 10's) and I used mustad because that is what the original cowgirl uses and I had great success with them. I have had no issues with the sharpness and thought the hooking abilities are very good, Just the bending problems. Last year I think I bent 10 hooks on fish in the net. It wasn't until I switched to VMC I had sharpness issues. I also felt I couldn't get them as sharp as I could get the mustad's with a file. not sure why that is. I also am very meticulous about keeping hooks sharp and will burn through a 24 pack during one trip to LOTW after catching fish and seeing people pull their bait on snagged rocks. |
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Posts: 2024
| I had a big fish partly straighten a 8/0 hook ---54x26, but was able to land it luckily. Another 52 also partly straightened one. Both were with an almost locked down 22 lb drag. I wonder if it's them making big runs that puts so much stress on the hook, or if it is the head shakes??? Also, the shock from hitting a trolled lure will also add a lot of stress to the hook. I don't know, but it is something to be aware of. That said, I live in Arkansas. While in Wally World, I saw some Eagle Claw 8/0 catfish trebles, so I grabbed some as I didn't think they made them that big. There was no 774 on the package. Same size as Mustads, but a bit thicker shank. I tried sharpening them and they sharpened up nicely, I don't know if they hold an edge well as I haven't fished them this year. I also tried bending both and cutting both and the Eagle Claws were significantly harder. I now have mostly Eagle Claws on the bucktails I built and as spares. |
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Posts: 1529
| mustads are softer steel. vmc has more carbon content. eagle claw forges there steel longer. here we use the DRAG SYSTEMS.
trolling up to 5mph and catching 50 in. plus fish we rarely straighten hooks. |
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Best Treble Hooks for strength and hooking percentage