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Posts: 334
Location: Madison, WI | So with the opener in a week and colder than normal temps mixed with rain im wondering just how waterproof my frabill ice suit is. Its the grey, uninsulated frabill suit. It has a small bit of fleece in the chest and back area but otherwise perfect for early late season musky. Ive just never been caught in the rain ice fishing or musky fishing with it. Any input is appreciated! |
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Posts: 43
| I have the same suit and like it but it's not water proof. my arms got wet this spring while fishing and my legs were wet after sitting and kneeling. maybe some water proof spray or a treatment would help. suit is 2-3 years old. |
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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | The website lists all suits as being waterproof. Is it the Frabill suit or the ice suit?
I just replaced my aged winter gear with Cabelas guidewear extreme, but my 10 year old uninsulated Gander guide series GoreTex gear is showing its age and I'm shopping for a new set for this season. I like the looks of the Frabill suits and will be considering one for my next purchase. The suit will be worn 60+ days per year(on a year like the last couple) from spring through early fall. Are some of these suits different in terms of what makes them waterproof? I am looking at the Cyclone, Stormsuit, and rainsuit and each are described as being waterproof but each have a slightly differing description in terms of product design. Which would you recomend for nasty rainy weather? Is it neccessary to get into the Cyclone for full rugged waterproof, or will the stormsuit and/or rainsuit keep me dry all day? Any other features you like about your particular suit? Are the coats longer on some than others? The coats on my suits now are long enough to cover my rear end, and I'm 6'3", and while I'm not sure its' neccessary and it does hinder movement at times, I'd like to know the options. Thank you and sorry to hijack the thread, but perhaps the info could help all viewing it. |
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Posts: 334
Location: Madison, WI | http://frabill.com/clothing/frabill-suit.html
mine is the "frabill suit" and its listed as "waterproof" and while late season ice fishing ive yet to get wet legs but have never been in the rain. Maybe ill look into spraying it. I bought this suit with intentions on using it late season ice and musky fishing due to being slightly insulated.
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Posts: 1901
Location: MN | Reef, I didn't look at the Frabill site to read their description, but as with any waterproof garment there really is only two ways this is done. One is with a membrane, usually on the backside of the shell. The membrane is usually a ptfe or pu material and is considered "breathable" - the tiny holes in the membrane are much smaller than a water drop but bigger than a molecule of moisture vapor. The seams must be taped or sealed in order to be waterproof. The shell is usually made of a woven nylon or polyester and is usually treated with DWR to repel water by causing it to bead up. Think rain X on on your windshield. This type works pretty well in rain, but often when under pressure such as sitting on water or kneeling, water can become smaller than the normal droplet and then can be forced thru the membrane depending on the quality of the membrane and the pressure. Re-treating the shell with Nikwax or Revivex does not make it waterproof, it merely increases or improves the repellency or beading up of water on the shell. Goretex is an example of this.
The second way they do it is with an outer shell that is impermeable, such as PVC. No membrane but seams still need to be taped/sealed. This is not "breathable" however and if active or worn in warm weather, you will often sweat quite a bit in this. Think Helly Hansen, the stuff they wear on the Alaskan crab boats. |
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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | Propster - 4/27/2014 11:39 AM
Reef, I didn't look at the Frabill site to read their description, but as with any waterproof garment there really is only two ways this is done. One is with a membrane, usually on the backside of the shell. The membrane is usually a ptfe or pu material and is considered "breathable" - the tiny holes in the membrane are much smaller than a water drop but bigger than a molecule of moisture vapor. The seams must be taped or sealed in order to be waterproof. The shell is usually made of a woven nylon or polyester and is usually treated with DWR to repel water by causing it to bead up. Think rain X on on your windshield. This type works pretty well in rain, but often when under pressure such as sitting on water or kneeling, water can become smaller than the normal droplet and then can be forced thru the membrane depending on the quality of the membrane and the pressure. Re-treating the shell with Nikwax or Revivex does not make it waterproof, it merely increases or improves the repellency or beading up of water on the shell. Goretex is an example of this.
The second way they do it is with an outer shell that is impermeable, such as PVC. No membrane but seams still need to be taped/sealed. This is not "breathable" however and if active or worn in warm weather, you will often sweat quite a bit in this. Think Helly Hansen, the stuff they wear on the Alaskan crab boats.
Thanks man. Yes, I've always liked my goretex over the tech20 stuff that friends and wife have. My particular gander guide series goretex gear has the gore-tex(at least one layer) on the outside so that the outside layer doesn't get soaked like my wifes gander tech2-0. The tech2-0 also has a membrane but the wife and friends with it typically end up wetter than me at the end of the day. That brings me to ask you what you know about the varying brands using some form of membrane material. Is it like battery manufacturing where the same membrane is used in many brands, or do each produce their own 'version' of waterproof membrane. I've been very happy with goretex so far, and also the cabelas dry plus which is in a couple pairs of my boots. I love my Grundens bibs for just plain wet/cold/slimy fishin, but as you say, it doesn't breathe well.
Would you recomend one spray product over another to retreat the outside of my goretex gear?(I think I can see that there is membrane on the outside so I don't want to compromise it, but could be wrong). I'll probably wash the gear first. Again, I think it is just plain wore out, but I would try a couple things to see if I can get another season from it. |
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Posts: 1901
Location: MN | Couple things. Goretex membrane is ptfe. As with other membranes there are different grades of it as evidenced by the drastically varying price range availability. The outer shell material that the membrane is bonded to also contributes to the cost. There are a huge variety of membranes available of varying degree of quality. Usually they are measured in terms of degree of waterproofness and breathability. Tech 2O is a non-branded membrane that Gander uses for their home brand. Cabelas Dry Plus uses mostly Sympatex, which is often considered as good or possibly better than GT in their high end stuff. The membrane is always in the back side or inside of the shell. What you sometimes can see on the outside is the repellent coating that helps water bead up just so less is trying to get thru the membrane. When this gets dirty and wears off, it fails to increase the surface tension of the water, which then spreads out and "wets" the material more easily. Washing is recommended for most garments, and re-treatment also. I know that Revivex works but I've heard good things about Nikwax as well. Less expensive alternatives are the silicone type sprays like Atsko and others offer. If your membrane underneath gets dirt or grit on it, that can compromise its ability to waterproof the garment. That's often why footwear (which uses a bootie usually) won't stay waterproof forever. It's also why a leather or cordura boot that is claimed to be waterproof is technically not when you stand in water. The pressure eventually forces the water through. A rubber boot or wader is designed to be waterproof in that situation, similar to the PVC rain jacket. |
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Posts: 334
Location: Madison, WI | So what is the frabill suit made up of and whats the best way to maintain it? |
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Posts: 1901
Location: MN | I've not looked at their web site description or the actual product in the store or read their care instructions. Do you have a set and still have the hang tags? |
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Posts: 1901
Location: MN | A quick search of their web site.
Frabill suit and ICE suit: Oxford nylon shell. No mention of membrane so might be a pu-type coating. ICE is insulated, probably non-brand poly fill.
FXE Sno: 660 denier Taslan nylon shell treated with DuPont Teflon. Uses a membrane. Thinsulate insulated.
FXE Storm: lighter (than 660 d) Oxford nylon shell. Treated with DuPont Teflon. Water resistant zippers. No mention of membrane so could be pu type coating.
F4 Cyclone: doesn't mention what shell fabric is. High end non brand membrane. Non brand DWR treatment. Water resistant zippers.
F3 bib: similar to F4 but membrane not rated as high.
I didn't see any care and maintenance instructions but I would say that DuPont's aftermarket Teflon spray would be compatible with all their models to improve/restore repellency of the the shell fabric. |
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Posts: 1901
Location: MN | Jason, for spring thru early fall I'd look at the FXE Storm or the F4. |
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Posts: 334
Location: Madison, WI | Propster - 4/27/ 2:46 PM
A quick search of their web site.
Frabill suit and ICE suit: Oxford nylon shell. No mention of membrane so might be a pu-type coating. ICE is insulated, probably non-brand poly fill.
FXE Sno: 660 denier Taslan nylon shell treated with DuPont Teflon. Uses a membrane. Thinsulate insulated.
FXE Storm: lighter (than 660 d) Oxford nylon shell. Treated with DuPont Teflon. Water resistant zippers. No mention of membrane so could be pu type coating.
F4 Cyclone: doesn't mention what shell fabric is. High end non brand membrane. Non brand DWR treatment. Water resistant zippers.
F3 bib: similar to F4 but membrane not rated as high.
I didn't see any care and maintenance instructions but I would say that DuPont's aftermarket Teflon spray would be compatible with all their models to improve/restore repellency of the the shell fabric.
Yup I read that. I was asking what I can use on it and have good results since there is no mention of care and the tags say nothing about maintaining waterproofing. Ill look into that dupont spray. Is it similar to camp dry or similar spray products? |
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Posts: 1901
Location: MN | Not sure about that. I'd check DuPont's web site to see what they offer. But being they are all woven nylon shells I think any of them including Revivex and Nikwax will work. |
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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | Thanks Keith, based on price I'd be led to think the Cyclone is the way to go. I need to find a retailer in the area so I can try one and compare it to the cabelas gear and also the new gander gear(I see they are offering Goretex again). Thanks so much for the very intuitive responses here. Great thread, thanks to your expertise on the topic. |
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frabill uninsulated ice suit ?'s