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Posts: 52
| Thinking of putting a kicker on my Ranger 621 this year. I troll mostly for muskies but plan to use it some for walleye fishing. Is it better to have a remote kicker or go with the tiller and have a bar to connect it to the big motor? | |
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Posts: 42
Location: Pewaukee Lake | I would go with a tiller. Gives you many options for steering---Use the tiller, link to main or steer with bow mount. I find that each method has its time and place however find myself using the bow mount (Terrova--I Pilot) to steer most often. For more responsive control while trolling sharp contours I move to tiller. Steering from the console is also an option which many people enjoy! Then equip yourself with an Itroll and you will be set!!!
Edited by jarrod0607 3/26/2014 4:10 PM
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Posts: 243
Location: South Central Wisconsin | jarrod0607 - 3/26/2014 4:09 PM
I would go with a tiller. Gives you many options for steering---Use the tiller, link to main or steer with bow mount. I find that each method has its time and place however find myself using the bow mount (Terrova--I Pilot) to steer most often. For more responsive control while trolling sharp contours I move to tiller. Steering from the console is also an option which many people enjoy! Then equip yourself with an Itroll and you will be set!!! Ditto.. | |
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Location: WI | And with the tiller it is much easier to remove. I take mine off mid summer for a few months between walleye on Winnebago and fall trolling on the bay. | |
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Location: 31 | If you're mostly trolling muskie... I would only use and therefore recommend the remote helm control connected to the main motor. | |
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Posts: 5874
| Tiller all the way. You can get factory parts to connect to the main motor for steering, and a Troll Pro for precise speed control. The speed control with the remote control box is clumsy at best. Plus, you can back troll for eyes, and it's easily removed, neither of which you cannot do with a remote steer. This is really a no-brainer.
Edited by Shep 3/27/2014 8:07 AM
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Location: 31 | Shep - 3/27/2014 8:05 AM
The speed control with the remote control box is clumsy at best.
I couldn't disagree more with the remote supposedly being"clumsy at best".
For mainly muskie trolling in a 621, a remote is the way to go, its very precise and easy to use. I can't speak for how good it might be for part time walleye trolling, but after fishing with the tiller that came with my 621... I couldn't get it swapped out fast enough with a remote. | |
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Posts: 489
| what is a troll pro? | |
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| Jerry Newman - 3/27/2014 2:38 PM
Shep - 3/27/2014 8:05 AM
The speed control with the remote control box is clumsy at best.
I couldn't disagree more with the remote supposedly being"clumsy at best".
For mainly muskie trolling in a 621, a remote is the way to go, its very precise and easy to use. I can't speak for how good it might be for part time walleye trolling, but after fishing with the tiller that came with my 621... I couldn't get it swapped out fast enough with a remote.
Spot on Jerry. What a PITA adjusting speed, gear, starting, trim tilt from the back. | |
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Posts: 5874
| Chain Gang - 4/5/2014 8:52 AM
what is a troll pro?
Troll Pro is a servo driven speed control that allows for precise and repeatable remote speed control for your kicker motor. There are several different makes out there, but Troll Pro is what I always used.
As for being a PITA, I would agree to disagree on that. Electric start Tiller Pro Kicker is just as easy to operate from the back, as it is from the console. You can add a start switch and a trim control at the console if that's such a big deal. I've been in both, and always owned the tiller. The versatility of the tiller version easily trumps the limitations of the remote version. But I can see some people would just rather have the remote. To each their own.
Edited by Shep 4/7/2014 7:50 AM
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Posts: 52
| Thanks for all of the comments. | |
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Location: 31 | I think a lot depends on what kind of fishing your looking to do, if you are a true multi species angler, have a comfortable place to sit back there without a deck, and don't mind being right on top of the running motor all day… I can relate to a tiller.
However, the difference I see is the original question pertained to adding a kicker on a 621 for mostly muskies, and if it’s a 620-621 “mostly” muskie boat, hands down a remote is the way to go. It's definitely not clumsy and any perceived limitations versus a tiller are equaled with the convenience and complete controls from the helm where your electronics are… especially in rough water.
Regarding the sharper turn deal with a tiller, it's simply not applicable with that wide deck and transom on a 621, and there's no way anybody in their right mind is going to want to sit back there all day either. As a matter of fact, if you are 6 line trolling and try to make a sharper turn than you can with a remote, you would completely kill the action of 2 baits.
Point taken about putting the power trim and shifter at the helm Shep, and I normally agree with what you're saying most of the time on other threads. But if you're going to go to that extent; why not just finish the job?
When I come off of structure, I typically increase my speed slightly to induce a strike, then sometimes race over to the next good piece of structure. It's also nice to be able to turn and “can it” simultaneously to escape a large wave from coming over the bow, without having to take my hand off the remote.
Shep, do you really crawl over a deck and wide transom to get at your tiller?
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Posts: 5874
| Jerry Newman - 4/7/2014 11:51 PM
I think a lot depends on what kind of fishing your looking to do, if you are a true multi species angler, have a comfortable place to sit back there without a deck, and don't mind being right on top of the running motor all day… I can relate to a tiller.
However, the difference I see is the original question pertained to adding a kicker on a 621 for mostly muskies, and if it’s a 620-621 “mostly” muskie boat, hands down a remote is the way to go. It's definitely not clumsy and any perceived limitations versus a tiller are equaled with the convenience and complete controls from the helm where your electronics are… especially in rough water.
Regarding the sharper turn deal with a tiller, it's simply not applicable with that wide deck and transom on a 621, and there's no way anybody in their right mind is going to want to sit back there all day either. As a matter of fact, if you are 6 line trolling and try to make a sharper turn than you can with a remote, you would completely kill the action of 2 baits.
Point taken about putting the power trim and shifter at the helm Shep, and I normally agree with what you're saying most of the time on other threads. But if you're going to go to that extent; why not just finish the job?
When I come off of structure, I typically increase my speed slightly to induce a strike, then sometimes race over to the next good piece of structure. It's also nice to be able to turn and “can it” simultaneously to escape a large wave from coming over the bow, without having to take my hand off the remote.
Shep, do you really crawl over a deck and wide transom to get at your tiller?
Jerry, no crawling involved, I can start, trim and connect the steering while standing on the floor, with one foot on the livewell. And yes, when back-trolling or tight structure trolling, I'll sit on a cushion on the live well, and I've done that for hours in a 620/621 too. Try that with a remote. When forward trolling open water eyes or muskies, I simply attach the steering connecting rod, maybe a few seconds to do that. When I want to juice it a bit, I just hit the Momentary Full Throttle button on my Troll Pro, from where ever I happen to be in the boat. When I get the hook up, I can hit the idle button till the fish is in the net, then hit it again to resume the previous speed exactly.
When six boards out, agree you have to be careful of not crossing lines in too sharp of a turn, but stalling baits is a very effective trigger.
My Tuffy doesn't take water over the bow, so not an issue for me. I also don't need a rear deck, whether in my Tuffy's or Rangers. But I can see that would make the crawling required. Do you crawl on the deck to set your down rods and prop wash rods? Why is that acceptable?
Even with the remote, I'd still have a Troll Pro, or similar throttle control. Speed control, repeatability, and versatility cannot be duplicated with the remote compared to the Troll Pro.
To each his own. I'd never likely have a remote. That's not to say you are wrong because you choose to have one, or I am wrong because I choose the tiller. Versatility is key to me.
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| Remote all the way on my 620 but do have a Trollmaster as well which isnt used much.. Sit on the livewell cushion all day and I'll sit in my chair and we'll see how our backs feel at the end of an 18 hour trolling session. The only time I miss having the tiller option is when Im trolling tight contours on a shield type lake in late fall. Even then its nice sitting at the console and not at the back of the boat with my hand on a tiller extension. Thats when I use my Trollmaster, in my pocket with a handwarmer..
You Tuffy doesnt take waves over the bow? Whats the biggest water/waves you've fished in? Don't care what brand/model it is, they'll all take a wave at some point
Edited by Esox1850 4/8/2014 8:16 PM
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Posts: 243
Location: South Central Wisconsin | I just added a kicker. I mounted it starboard side as I primarily cast out of the port side. It is a tiller which I can run as such, or I can put the connection rod between the two motors and steer from the console. "Itroll" is a product similar to the trollmaster. One of the differences between the two is Itroll has what's called "huntmode". I can set up my itroll to run at say 30% throttle for a set amount of time. Then I can set it to jump up, or go down to a different throttle setting. The change of speed happens in any increment you set it at. Then, coming off a structure I can make it "burst" at a higher throttle setting to keep the baits running and hopefully provoke strikes. While I have not used this yet, I did buy it and I'm thinking this little gadget is going to be well worth the $$$. | |
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Location: 31 | Hi Shep,
I think the versatility you mention is more in-line with a multi species boat, and not a mostly 620 muskie boat that has no good place to park your rear end. I suppose some people are okay with that but I'm definitely not interested in sitting on a live well with a cushion, not even for a few hours.
I have no problem sitting 12 to 16 hours a day far away from the motor noise in a comfortable chair at the helm though… and feel that I can pretty effortlessly duplicate any perceived advantage you mentioned with my remote… and then some.
I absolutely agree that stalling the baits is a fish trigger, but when I use the stall technique, I do it with floating baits over a premier spot trying to finesse a strike, and definitely not on a turn when the outside baits are speeding up.
Actually, the only time I use the stall technique is when I know the fish are using a very specific area, but the bite is slow. To me that is the trolling equivalent of a creeper/hog wobbler casting presentation, effective at times but only to be used in a very specific manner and location. One thing you're going to need with the stall technique (or trolling top water for that matter), is the ability to immediately put pressure on a strike.
I'm not familiar with a troll master, but have used the more advanced TR1 autopilot (same push button concept) plenty and noticed that it was more of a buildup to full throttle than the immediate full throttle you get with a remote. Either way, I absolutely agree that varying your speed is good when used for a specific purpose, and that is a large part of my overall trolling game plan.
Wow, excellent point on the down rods and absolutely agree that crawling on the deck to set a down rod is completely unacceptable! I know of a premier muskie guide who still uses those curved back rails for his down rods… talk about needlessly beating yourself and your clients up. I really don't get why some guys do that because you can set your 2 prop wash rods at the rear of the easy to reach side rail and accomplish the same thing.
I have eight DEs on my 2 rear side rails and have the other DE mounted on the swim ladder for 9 rod capability, but only use that rear one for a tail-gunner when the prop wash bite is on. So absolutely agree that crawling on a deck is lame unless you have to do it (or the bite is on and you want 3 in the wash).
I can see that you're an accomplished troller by your comments, and without a doubt being able to better reach your tiller on your Tuffy works for your style of fishing. However, you would have to shoot at me before I would spend the money on a 621, and then sit hunched over back there for any length of time… and please don't take that the wrong way, because I'm really only interested in providing this gent with solid information regarding a tiller versus a remote so he can make a sound decision on his own boat.
I don't comment on a lot on these threads like some people, but when I do, it's typically only from long first-hand experience, and our discussion originally began when I took exception with your claim that the remote was “clumsy at best”. I just don't understand this statement, and can tell you from long experience there is nothing clumsy about a remote in the right hands, and there is a big difference between hitting a button for full throttle and slamming down a correctly rigged remote at times.
Obviously a lot depends on the style of fishing and once again, I'm not challenging your ability with your set up, because I'm sure you're excellent with it, but guarantee you that the repeatability and versatility you speak of for muskie can be easily duplicated by me with a remote. I can make this statement because I do it every day when I'm on the water, but then again I taught myself to manually vary my speed at times, or if I'm getting hits at 3.5, my boat rolls along at a very steady 3.5 unless it's rough. Well, time for bed, great discussion.
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Posts: 210
| Now this is a great discussion! Two guys with practical experience presenting their opinions. Either guy could sway me to their argument, then the other poster weighs in with agreement on select aspects and rebuttals to other aspects. | |
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Posts: 148
Location: pittsburgh, pa | I agree with jerry 100%. You wouldnt catch me sitting there holding onto a tiller with a motor buzzing in my ear. With the wind smacking me in the face all day on a cold december day. Ill sit there tucked behind the windshield with the bimini up, side and drop curtains in and mr. Buddy heater keeping me warm. | |
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Posts: 5874
| todd_yester - 4/9/2014 12:01 AM
I agree with jerry 100%. You wouldnt catch me sitting there holding onto a tiller with a motor buzzing in my ear. With the wind smacking me in the face all day on a cold december day. Ill sit there tucked behind the windshield with the bimini up, side and drop curtains in and mr. Buddy heater keeping me warm.
You don't have to ONLY sit in back hanging on to a tiller handle. Never, ever said that. Get an easily placed/removed connecting rod between the big motor and the kicker and sit at the helm and steer all day long if you want.
See the link:
http://walleye.outdoorsfirst.com/board/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=9...
This is the versatility I'm talking about.
Plus, the kicker less expensive, and doesn't take up room for the second control, whether piggy backed or separately mounted.
MFT button has nearly instantaneous response. Certainly quicker than the TR-1 Autopilot
I rest my case. LOL!
Edited by Shep 4/9/2014 11:28 AM
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Posts: 148
Location: pittsburgh, pa | I know what the connection bar is cause its the same one I have. Im just saying if you plan on spending 14-16 hours a day trolling. The remote is a better option. I can dial my speed down to a tenth of a mile per hour with my remote. There is a reason some of the best trollers around on the eastern water (PA, OH, and NY) all use remote from there consol. I rest my case. LOL. | |
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Posts: 906
Location: Warroad, Mn | It depends on where you troll. I would guess that if you fished open water with planner boards a console would be great. However, I troll the shield with only one line per person allowed, and never use boards. The shield (LOTWs) has some very abrupt and unforgiving depth changes (read rocks) that sometimes require very rapid changes in direction and speed. The rapid direction change that you get with a tiller is many times a prop saver, and allows you much more control than at the console (I tried).
I use a long jointed extension (sold by both Cabala's a Bass Pro I believe). This allows me to sit in a nice seat some ways of front of the motor and gives me instant steering control. The old Merc that I use has the shift in the handle controls so to reverse I just turn the handle the other way. Sitting in the back also allow me to see all my rods, with out turning around, and allows me to look ahead and at my electronics at all times, very important when trolling the shield.
If you are going to troll the shield a tiller is the way to go.
Doug Johnson | |
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Location: 31 | Hey Doug,
I agree with using a tiller if you're scrubbing edges on Lake of the Woods because I've also used the “braille method” of finding a reef there more than once myself. I even put a hole in my boat in Ptarmigan Bay in the mid-90s… I can still remember saying something like; “it should be right in here somewhere” Bam!
This thread was started with a question about adding either a “remote” or “tiller” kicker on a 621, but you bring up an interesting point with the tiller extension because the general consensus is that there is no comfortable seating back by the kicker in a 620-1.
However, with the tiller extension handle you mentioned, you could plug in a rear seat and sit there comfortably if the handle was long enough... just something for you shield troller's to consider.
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Remote VS Tiller Kicker