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Posts: 25
Location: Ham Lake, Minnesota | Hello everyone,
I'm looking to add another rod to my arsenal of St. Croix Legend Tournament Top N' Tail and Sling blade. I want this rod to be 8'6"-8'10" in length and for jerkbaits, possibly gliders, wtd, and larger baits. I thought about the Legend Tournament Big Dawg, but it's an extremely stiff rod and I prefer a rod that loads well with good flex to keep a fish pinned during a fight. I also thought about the Big Nasty, but I like full-cork 18" handles and I can't imagine having the grip extended on a Big Nasty resulting in a cumbersome 9'4" rod(I have both my Top N' Tail and Slingblade handles extended to 18"). My question is: How does the TI 8'6" XH action compare to the H action Slingblade? Is the rod softer or stiffer, does it offer an application the Slingblade does not? My other idea was a TI 8'6" XXH(16" full cork handle) with the handle extend 2" to match the length on my St. Croix Slingblade. How does the Ti XXH action compare to the Big Dawg? Is the Ti XXH more or less stiff than then Big Dawg?
Thanks |
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Posts: 1224
Location: Okoboji | get the big dawg. |
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Posts: 1023
| The TI xxh feels heavier overall than the big dawg but it has more tip flex and slower overall action.
It is a great big bait rod.
I think the TI xxh would be too similar to the sling blade IMO.
The standard TI handle is plenty long.
I use my xxh for dawgs, pounders and hard or bucketheads. |
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Posts: 908
Location: South-Central PA | If you don't want a stiff rod, stay away from the Big Dawg (it's one of my personal favorites though). You'll find that all of the St Croix rods will be faster in action and have a stiffer tip than the TI rods. I like LT's and TI's and have both in my arsenal.
"I prefer a rod that loads well with good flex to keep a fish pinned during a fight", "I like full-cork 18" handles"
Both of the above quotes from you describe TI rods. As far as which one to get, that depends on what weight baits you'll be throwing and a bit of personal preference. I like my XH for baits in the 2-4oz range and my XXH for anything heavier than 4oz. You can buy an XH and an XXH for the price of an LT though...
jeremy
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Posts: 532
Location: Ogden, UTAH 10 minutes from pineview reservoir | big dawg, i was worried it would be too stiff but its perfect for what i like... jeremy made me a sick rod out of the big dawg!! great rod builder |
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Posts: 209
| If you have the option and want to consider one take a look at the Throne Predator lords as you can order and length and handle, I looked at a sling blade at 8 ft 6 in and the price was 359.00 I walked over to Thorne and the Predator was the one I liked it started at 370.00 ? Easily made my mind up right there ?
Bill |
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Posts: 25
Location: Ham Lake, Minnesota | Landry - 3/6/2014 2:08 PM
I think the TI xxh would be too similar to the sling blade IMO.
Landry, I believe you meant that Ti XH is too similar to the Slingblade?
Bill, you have me wondering about a Thorne Bros custom rod now. It doesn't help that I live only 15 minutes away from Thorne Bros! I saw on their website the 9' Big Nasty blank is available in cobalt pearl blue. I could have Thorne Bros build me a 9' or possibly 8'10"(cut 2" off the butt end) Big Nasty with 18" full-cork grip... Then I would have the 18" rear-handle I prefer and I wouldn't be over 9' which I'm trying to avoid.... |
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Posts: 149
| I used to own 6 SC rods for musky. Sold all but one and moved into TI rods. Just personal preference but I like the TI XXH rods more for my med/heavy jerkbaits. Heavy rod but not a pool stick. 86 or 9 XXH will be perfect for you and with the money saved buy a good reel. These TI rods load up perfectly and throw lures a country mile.
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Location: MN | Not to steal your thread but I have a couple questions on the TI's.
Would you go wtih an XXH or XH for throwing blades? I am going to be pairing with a tranx PG. I will occassionally throw rubber and big cranks but it's main purpose is blades.
Will I be able to toss small blades-8's and 6's with an XXH? Thanks |
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Posts: 4053
Location: Land of the Musky | I use some of the highest quality high tech materials in the industry to make my blanks. They come from high tech USA & Japanese companies so why would my rods not be as good? In short, my rods cost less for the following reasons:
1) I started my company and priced my tackle so everyone can afford them, not just people with extra disposable income. I realize I could charge $225+ for my rods but why? I have had people from all walks of life thank me for my rods, not just because they are affordable but because they are good rods.
2) I spend very little on advertising and this can add an easy $30-$40 a rod if you advertise on TV, Magazines, buy big name guides to rep your rods, etc.
3) The rods are assembled overseas on primarily up to date German and Italian made rod manufacturing equipment. This saves another $20-$30 a rod. And I give props to SC on keeping production in the USA. Any other musky rod company that says they are Made in the USA (IMO) should be making their musky rods on a SC blank and assembling in the USA. Otherwise they are making their rods on overseas blanks and assembling them in the USA.
4) I handle all of the design, production, accounting, etc for my company and this really helps keep my prices down.
5) I own all of my own warehouses. This shaves off another $10-$15 a rod just for inventory storage costs.
So, IMO its more like a BMW 6 series vs a BMW M3... |
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Posts: 4053
Location: Land of the Musky | Nershi,
Most of my customers like the XH for blades. You can throw smaller lures with the XXH but you need to adjust your reel casting drag or you will birds-nest your reel throwing smaller lures. I use my XXH for double 8s, 7" Suicks, etc but again, I adjust my casting drag.
James
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Posts: 25
Location: Ham Lake, Minnesota | Thanks for all the replies thus far, it's greatly appreciated. I'm actually leaning towards having Thorne Brothers build me a custom Big Nasty on the SC4 cobalt blue blank. I'm thinking the 4M90HF blank with 19" full-cork rear grip and the same palm-reel seat that comes on the St. Croix Big Nasty. I have never owned a Thorne Brothers custom rod. How would the quality/craftsmanship of a Thorne Brother built Big Nasty compare to the St. Croix Legend Tournament Series? Obviously, it's the same blank, but what about other components? Does Thorne offer any kind of warranty for craftsmanship on their custom rod builds? It's nice having a factory lifetime warranty with St. Croix Legend Tournaments.. |
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Posts: 1023
| My opinion: Save your money and. It two TI rods. One xh and one xxh. Keep the one u like it both.
I am confident u will like them.
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| Landry - 3/8/2014 1:29 PM
My opinion: Save your money and. It two TI rods. One xh and one xxh. Keep the one u like it both.
I am confident u will like them.
x2!!! |
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Posts: 209
| X3 as then you have both !!!!
4amuskie - 3/8/2014 3:01 PM
Landry - 3/8/2014 1:29 PM
My opinion: Save your money and. It two TI rods. One xh and one xxh. Keep the one u like it both.
I am confident u will like them.
x2!!! |
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| So James....whens the 10ft rods coming out in XXH. Really need one!!! |
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Posts: 122
| 10 footer please! |
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Posts: 241
| X4
Backdraft |
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Posts: 4053
Location: Land of the Musky | Either a musky 9'6" or 10' telescopic XH is on my list once I get my bass and walleye rods done. It would have to be a tele though as a 1pc would cost $70-$90 to ship in the USA. |
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Posts: 109
Location: Pewaukee, WI | Esocks
If your concerned about quality, Thorne Bros. rods are second to none! They have been building my rods for me since 1989 and I've had one cork handle split on me. I sent it back, they fixed it and I got it back the same week. On your first post you said that you add to the handle length. I would be careful on the warranty if you alter a rod.
They did a Big Nasty for me @ 9'8" with a 18" flared handle and it's become on of my favorite rods to use. It is pretty stiff so you might want to look into a Sling Blade,H Predator or a "C" Series blank. If your only 15 minutes away I would recommend going over there and checking them out yourself.
With rods, "You get what you pay for" and sometimes getting 2 rods for the price of 1 might not be the best way to go when you want things YOUR way. |
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Posts: 38
| go wth the ti rods they are second to none and very affordable and james customer service is outstanding if u have any problems |
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| I have a hard time believing much of the made in America claims these days, especially when high end blanks show up in packaging from Mexico for example:-) |
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Posts: 4343
Location: Smith Creek | None of SC blanks made in Mexico are available to rodbuilders. If you can find a SC blank (not finished rod) that was made in Mexico I'd love to see it. |
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Posts: 1084
Location: Aurora | James, I thought yer rods were a few ounces less than comparable St. Croix models.
Please "weigh" in if otherwise. |
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Posts: 25
Location: Ham Lake, Minnesota | Thank you very much for all the valuable-feedback. I'm going to order a custom 9' Big Nasty from Thorne Brothers. I'm thinking 9' Big Nasty blank with 19" or 20" full-cork rear handle. |
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Posts: 1638
Location: Minnesota | Good choice going to thorne bros. They have never let me down . |
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Posts: 537
Location: Gilberts IL/Rhinelander WI | Esocks - 3/23/2014 7:27 PM
Thank you very much for all the valuable-feedback. I'm going to order a custom 9' Big Nasty from Thorne Brothers. I'm thinking 9' Big Nasty blank with 19" or 20" full-cork rear handle.
That's a great choice. Go to Thorne Bros with an open mind and talk to Lonnie. Don't rule out a predator. You'll be able to hold most of the rods with reels on them and see what you like. |
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Posts: 260
Location: Almost Heaven | Most of the St. Croix are made in USA. The tag on 2 of the TI rods I have says made in China?? |
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Posts: 4053
Location: Land of the Musky | Turkeyt - 3/24/2014 5:44 PM
Most of the St. Croix are made in USA. The tag on 2 of the TI rods I have says made in China??
Correct and from what I know in this industry, you will not find any other truly "made in USA" musky rods with the exception of St Croix. So, unless a rod is made on a USA made SC blank, the blank (and most of the components probably...) were made overseas and assembled in the USA. To me these are not "made in the USA" musky rods and should not be marked as one but I don't make the rules, the FTC does and their rules are vague to say the least... SC is the only musky rod that deserves the honor of truly being marked as made in the USA IMO. With that said, I made my rods using high quality components and raw materials but had them rolled and assembled overseas so everyone can afford to go fishing, not just guys who can afford a $300-$500 rod. Nothing wrong with buying a high $$$ rod but many can't afford to do it and still take care of their family financial needs. Also, if I had my rods built here on SC blanks or assembled in the USA on overseas blanks my prices would be a min. of $100 higher which defeats the purpose of me making affordable quality tackle. I have looked into it extensively. BTW, where are your reels, electronics, fishing cloths, terminal tackle, many of your lures, etc made? My guess is much of it is not made in the USA.....
James
PS-Hope my post does not read rudely, just pointing out some facts.
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Posts: 260
Location: Almost Heaven | Your post does not sound rude but, saying your rods are made overseas using German and Italian equipment does not tell where they are made. The TI rods have no stamping on the rod blank showing where they are made. Most companies state on their rod blanks where they are made. The only way you can cut costs and sell cheaper is get them made cheaper. That is what St Croix did with their Mojo and Triumph. They farm them out to the pennies on the dollar labor market... right? |
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Posts: 4053
Location: Land of the Musky | Turkeyt - 3/24/2014 8:36 PM
Your post does not sound rude but, saying your rods are made overseas using German and Italian equipment does not tell where they are made. The TI rods have no stamping on the rod blank showing where they are made. Most companies state on their rod blanks where they are made. The only way you can cut costs and sell cheaper is get them made cheaper. That is what St Croix did with their Mojo and Triumph. They farm them out to the pennies on the dollar labor market... right?
I have never seen a rod label state they are made outside of the USA with the exception of "Made in the USA" rods and even then many don't put that on their rod. Its a legal issue if you don't put where they are made on your card label at the point of sale unless they are made in the USA and then they don't have to have a label if the manufacture so chooses. Also never seen a "Made in Mexico" stamped on a SC Mojo rod and probably never will as they are not required to to so. And your incorrect on using cheaper raw materials for my TI products. I bet I spend nearly as much on my raw materials if not more and much of it comes from USA companies (which actually comes from oil from the Middle East!). I am 99% sure SC gets a much larger bulk discount on raw materials as they buy a lot more than I ever could dream of. They make nearly 40X-50X more rods than I do a year. Look into bulk buying power.... Also, where do you think SC got their rod rolling equipment from? Unless their equipment was custom made it most likely came from Germany or Italy as much of the USA high end industrial equipment does. I help spec out and source equipment in the USA as part of my day job and most of it comes from Europe. As for labor costs, we could spend countless hours at the bar discussing this issue but in short, businesses are punished for having employees in the USA and its getting worse every year. Look at what the health care bill is doing right now to small businesses let alone the tax structure for small/medium businesses. I paid almost 70% in taxes on every dollar last year. Some are called "fees" but if the check is written to the United States Treasury its a tax in my book. Again, hours and hours at the bar discussing this one...  Question, do you honestly think the majority of USA businesses want to make product overseas? I don't... But again, if I don't my products almost double in cost. I almost went bankrupt listening to people with similar opinions as you and when I did make my product in the USA years ago nobody bought them as they were too expensive. Now I make them overseas and keep a close eye on production, raw materials, offer a good quality product at a fair price and I can't keep up. Its a global economy, like it or not. The funny thing is, most of the people who post rants here (not you) are sitting in a chair, in cloths, typing on a computer, in a home with furniture, using products everyday that are not made in the USA when they could have spent 50%-300% more and bought "made in the USA" but they choose not to....why is fishing equipment any different (and I am sure its not if you look at your reels and other equipment)? More bar talk but the USA has major changes to make if they want to bring manufacturing back to the USA and I for one vote for those changes but its funny as most vote for those politicians who send manufacturing and jobs out of the USA because it save the consumer money. Well, rant over, time to go get a made in the USA captain&coke and go to bed
James
PS-The above is a big part why TI donates the majority of profits to charities. Then I don't have to give nearly as much in taxes to our Gov. to do more stupid stuff and fly around in expensive jets to discuss doing even more stupid stuff... |
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Posts: 216
| I hear ya, I'd rather give it away to a stranger rather than give any more to those rich greedy politicians. New York is the worst for taxes and greedy worthless politicians! |
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| Tackle Industries - 3/7/2014 3:51 PM
The rods are assembled overseas on primarily up to date German and Italian made rod manufacturing equipment. This saves another $20-$30 a rod. The guides are not in even in-line on the TI rod I have, didn't notice at first but now I find it funny. You would think that the craftsmen of these rods would first off, have some type of tool to line up the guides for christs sake. And second, be pulled at a quality control check at some point. Having everything made overseas saves money, we get that. Building costs are low which keeps the price of the rod low (although $30 more than initially) and profit margins just as good if not better than some of the other brands. I did like the action of the blank on the TI rod but overall quality seemed to be lacking some. Really not bashing the brand, simply trying to shed some light on issues people don't hear about. Some negative feedback can be a good thing too. |
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Location: Western PA | ESocks
Take a look at the Chaos Tackle Assault Sticks. More of a Medium fast tip blended with a fast shaft. I think they would fit what you are looking for perfectly.
PM me if you have any questions |
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Posts: 260
Location: Almost Heaven | Tackle Industries - 3/24/2014 11:02 PM
I have never seen a rod label state they are made outside of the USA with the exception of "Made in the USA" And your incorrect on using cheaper raw materials for my TI products.
Reply from Turkeyt:
I have rods that were bought in stores that have made in china on the blanks.
I did not comment that you used cheap materials just cheap labor.
I'm done |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Anonymous - 3/25/2014 7:28 AM
Tackle Industries - 3/7/2014 3:51 PM
The rods are assembled overseas on primarily up to date German and Italian made rod manufacturing equipment. This saves another $20-$30 a rod. The guides are not in even in-line on the TI rod I have, didn't notice at first but now I find it funny. You would think that the craftsmen of these rods would first off, have some type of tool to line up the guides. And second, be pulled at a quality control check at some point. Having everything made overseas saves money, we get that. Building costs are low which keeps the price of the rod low (although $30 more than initially) and profit margins just as good if not better than some of the other brands. I did like the action of the blank on the TI rod but overall quality seemed to be lacking some. Really not bashing the brand, simply trying to shed some light on issues people don't hear about. Some negative feedback can be a good thing too.
Did you contact TI and ask them to address the issue? If not, you have absolutely nothing to complain about. I have seen warranty issues in every brand rod I own. It's overall quality and customer service that make a brand.
Example:
I use Dell computers for the most part. I recently purchased a Dell Venue Pro for the road, easier to work on with the Mobile keyboard, and has the SSD and processing power to edit 720P video. It arrived and worked OK except it would not recognize the Mobile keyboard. Two sessions with customer service remote accessing my machine didn't solve the issue, so I sent it back overnight Fed Ex in a box they sent me and I'll have my machine back in a week. Not bad, and I am a happy customer despite the warranty issue (motherboard, by the way). Take the great customer service out of the equation and all I had was a brand new expensive machine that didn't work. Point is, that is WHY companies have warranties on the products they sell.
The St. Croixs, Abu Garcias, Shimanos, and TI's of the world co-exist nicely due to marketing power and niche marketing.
Another point, you don't have any idea what 'profit margins' are on any rod. More to consider there than just your perceptions. |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Turkeyt - 3/25/2014 8:32 AM
Tackle Industries - 3/24/2014 11:02 PM
I have never seen a rod label state they are made outside of the USA with the exception of "Made in the USA" And your incorrect on using cheaper raw materials for my TI products.
Reply from Turkeyt:
I have rods that were bought in stores that have made in china on the blanks.
I did not comment that you used cheap materials just cheap labor.
I'm done
So what?
Buy the brand or don't, based upon your personal preference. |
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Posts: 216
| I wold agree on the Qc part of that maybe someone should do a little better final inspection.i have a new 8.6" xheavy that was passed along to me,from its former owner probly because the reel seet is clocked a little to the 1 o'clock position. Kinda bugs you during the day looking at it, but I'll use it at night when you can't see it. Won't bother me at all. And I just purchased a new 9' xxheavy a few weeks back that 3 guides needed some tweaking. The first biggest one is pretty crooked in the 11oclock 5 oclock position but I tweaked em enough where you can't notice it unless your looking at the feet thru the wrapping. Quality components are there just a little more time in the fit and finish would be sweet.Im sure the extra time spent would cost extra$ but whats another 10 bucks per rod for the quality to be truly comparable with the top notch off the shelfers.No disrespect ment, I'll use the heck outa both of em,and really appreciate the owner of Ti for the generous donations to veterans. |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Or, you could buy a St. Croix, right? Choose your rod. I have Muskie sticks from both brands and chose my muskie stick based upon what I want it to do, and how much I wanted to spend on a rod that fit the bill. |
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Posts: 216
| Right,Steve, happens with every rod company out there I'm sure. You can't keep an eye on every worker and make sure he or she gives a shot enough to see that every rod is perfect.i understand that and my issues werent big enough where I thought should call or email to complain and send the Rods back or anything. just my 2$.TI has Great products and will defiantly buy more |
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Posts: 216
| Like $200 extra yup or buy 2 Ti's and fish and don't cry about crooked eyes I know.I did |
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TI XH and XXH versus Legend Tournment H and XH